Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by QuakingStar » Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:24 pm

I don't believe in numbers for the series anymore, and after reading Herms translations and his tweets on fusions and Super Saiyan 4 among other things, I have this. Here goes for multipliers.


Great Ape : 10x users current level of power.


Super Saiyan = 40x users base form.

Super Saiyan Second Grade = 45x users base form.

Super Saiyan Third Grade = 50x users base form.

Super Saiyan Fourth Grade = 50x users base form.

Super Saiyan 2 = 100x users base form.

Super Saiyan 3 = 400x users base form.


Golden Great Ape = 4,000x users base form at minimum.

Super Saiyan 4 = Comparable to the power of a hypothetical GT Vegito Potara Fusion up to SS3(Fused being is not using SS4 of course, that would make no sense.)


Super Saiyan God = Comparable to the power of base Fusion(using vs Kefla in ToP and later base Gogeta in the DBS Broly movie as reference since in DBS Potara and Dance have the same described formula)

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan = 40-50x Super Saiyan God.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:09 am

QuakingStar wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:24 pm I don't believe in numbers for the series anymore, and after reading Herms translations and his tweets on fusions and Super Saiyan 4 among other things, I have this. Here goes for multipliers.


Great Ape : 10x users current level of power.


Super Saiyan = 40x users base form.

Super Saiyan Second Grade = 45x users base form.

Super Saiyan Third Grade = 50x users base form.

Super Saiyan Fourth Grade = 50x users base form.

Super Saiyan 2 = 100x users base form.

Super Saiyan 3 = 400x users base form.


Golden Great Ape = 4,000x users base form at minimum.

Super Saiyan 4 = Comparable to the power of a hypothetical GT Vegito Potara Fusion up to SS3(Fused being is not using SS4 of course, that would make no sense.)


Super Saiyan God = Comparable to the power of base Fusion(using vs Kefla in ToP and later base Gogeta in the DBS Broly movie as reference since in DBS Potara and Dance have the same described formula)

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan = 40-50x Super Saiyan God.
You use the official multipliers for SS2 and SS3 but not the regular Super Saiyan? Odd.

Base Gogeta in Broly was Super Saiyan Blue tier not God.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:24 am

This's been discussed to death, but fusion depends on the fusees' power, not on the fusion method itself. Whatever Kefla managed has nothing to do with what Vegito. Besides, there's another Kefla iteration who isn't that strong, so who's the judge to say which one has more relevance?

SSG was implied in BoG to be beyond SS potara fusion. And SS4 was compared to a GT SS fusion, not a SS3 fusion. This basically puts the forms on equal grounds.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by QuakingStar » Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:01 pm

Why would I just use SS for GGA? That makes no sense that GGA wouldn't use the full power and potential of SS along with the Great Ape form, which would be SS3 which according to Toriyama is just another variation of SS.

For SSGod being stronger than fusion that was BoG only. Retcons happen, and what comes later retcons what comes before. SSGod is no longer stronger than fusion and the ToP and DBS Broly Movie literally proves this. Caulifla was defeated and exhausted when they became Kefla, and in base form Kefla completly eclipsed SSG Goku, Goku needed SSBKK to even be able to make SS Kefla be serious at all.

Herms already, literally discussed the whole hypothetical GT Vegito vs SS4 transformation thing and he thought it was more likely or very possible they were referring to a hypothetical SS3 GT Vegito.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:45 pm

After watching Super Hero I got hyped and also rewatched Battle of Gods for the first time in almost 10 years. In this rewatch I noticed how legitimate Beerus' line about Base Goku being weaker than Freeza is. He's not baiting Goku into transforming, he's not even interested in SSJ1 at all. It's a genuine commentary on Goku's base power.

So I decided to remake my power levels list based on that. I took a look at the Saiyan and Freeza Sagas and managed to tighten the gaps almost enough. Recoome "hardly [takes] any damage" from Vegeta's probably amplified blast, and the same thing is said about Cell tanking Piccolo's Light Grenade. Saiyan Saga Vegeta could charge up from 18k to 24k, so since Vegeta was 30k against Recoome his blast should at least be 40k, almost the same as Recoome's power level itself. Overall I think 1.5x gap can be enough to just tank someone's attack better than Recoome did, and based on KKx2 Goku vs Vegeta even 1.1x is already a blowout. So the Cell Saga mostly goes like this:
But then Gotenks comes and everything falls apart. Lists tend to get really ugly when Gotenks shows up. He's already tough with a 50x multiplier, 125x is just ridiculous. And there's the problem with BoGs itself: You can't keep Freeza > Base Saiyans but ignore Goku and Vegeta > Everyone else. Someone who can beat Goku coming to Earth is instant bad news, and Vegeta himself could trade blows with Beerus and earn his praise after everyone else got one shot. I can get behind Gohan and Gotenks getting rusty, but Boo's power shouldn't change.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by OmegaAlphaDelta123 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:40 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:56 am I don't think you can make power levels work pre DBZ. Too many statements about guys getting several times stronger. The way you had it you made the characters get weaker by the time DBZ starts!

The Z part is workable, but there's some red flags here and there. Ginyu says Goku needs a PL of at least 60k to one shot the Ginyu Force like he did, so Recoome ain't no 60,000. 40-45k tends to be the mark for them. Freeza and Cold agree Freeza is the strongest in the universe, so Cold isn't stronger. He's more like 100 million at best. And Android Saga Yamcha > Gohan? Come on.
Yeah, I had very little wiggle room in terms of power levels pre-Z. I guess just assume that in the five year timeskip to Z, people relaxed more and failed to make significant breakthroughs in their training?

Your first two points make sense and I'll change them accordingly, but there's nothing that outright says that Yamcha is stronger or weaker than base Gohan at the beginning of the Cell Saga. (Before you bring up that Yamcha got destroyed by Android 20, but Gohan freed Piccolo from him, it's been shown multiple times in the series that if you catch a weaker opponent off guard, they'll be sent flying even if they're multiple times stronger than you.)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:04 am

OmegaAlphaDelta123 wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:40 pm Yeah, I had very little wiggle room in terms of power levels pre-Z. I guess just assume that in the five year timeskip to Z, people relaxed more and failed to make significant breakthroughs in their training?
One way you could make the pre-Z section work is to interpret the scouter numbers from the start of the Saiyan arc (Goku at 416, Kuririn at 206, etc) as being those characters' at-rest battle powers, and that their true strength would be somewhat higher. There isn't really any direct contradiction and you'd get a lot more wiggle room for the pre-Raditz arcs.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:11 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:45 pm After watching Super Hero I got hyped and also rewatched Battle of Gods for the first time in almost 10 years. In this rewatch I noticed how legitimate Beerus' line about Base Goku being weaker than Freeza is. He's not baiting Goku into transforming, he's not even interested in SSJ1 at all. It's a genuine commentary on Goku's base power.

So I decided to remake my power levels list based on that. I took a look at the Saiyan and Freeza Sagas and managed to tighten the gaps almost enough. Recoome "hardly [takes] any damage" from Vegeta's probably amplified blast, and the same thing is said about Cell tanking Piccolo's Light Grenade. Saiyan Saga Vegeta could charge up from 18k to 24k, so since Vegeta was 30k against Recoome his blast should at least be 40k, almost the same as Recoome's power level itself. Overall I think 1.5x gap can be enough to just tank someone's attack better than Recoome did, and based on KKx2 Goku vs Vegeta even 1.1x is already a blowout. So the Cell Saga mostly goes like this:
But then Gotenks comes and everything falls apart. Lists tend to get really ugly when Gotenks shows up. He's already tough with a 50x multiplier, 125x is just ridiculous. And there's the problem with BoGs itself: You can't keep Freeza > Base Saiyans but ignore Goku and Vegeta > Everyone else. Someone who can beat Goku coming to Earth is instant bad news, and Vegeta himself could trade blows with Beerus and earn his praise after everyone else got one shot. I can get behind Gohan and Gotenks getting rusty, but Boo's power shouldn't change.
You have got to be joking man. What happened to our "Zero Base Goku < Frieza cult" plan?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:52 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:45 pm After watching Super Hero I got hyped and also rewatched Battle of Gods for the first time in almost 10 years. In this rewatch I noticed how legitimate Beerus' line about Base Goku being weaker than Freeza is. He's not baiting Goku into transforming, he's not even interested in SSJ1 at all. It's a genuine commentary on Goku's base power.

So I decided to remake my power levels list based on that. I took a look at the Saiyan and Freeza Sagas and managed to tighten the gaps almost enough. Recoome "hardly [takes] any damage" from Vegeta's probably amplified blast, and the same thing is said about Cell tanking Piccolo's Light Grenade. Saiyan Saga Vegeta could charge up from 18k to 24k, so since Vegeta was 30k against Recoome his blast should at least be 40k, almost the same as Recoome's power level itself. Overall I think 1.5x gap can be enough to just tank someone's attack better than Recoome did, and based on KKx2 Goku vs Vegeta even 1.1x is already a blowout. So the Cell Saga mostly goes like this:
But then Gotenks comes and everything falls apart. Lists tend to get really ugly when Gotenks shows up. He's already tough with a 50x multiplier, 125x is just ridiculous. And there's the problem with BoGs itself: You can't keep Freeza > Base Saiyans but ignore Goku and Vegeta > Everyone else. Someone who can beat Goku coming to Earth is instant bad news, and Vegeta himself could trade blows with Beerus and earn his praise after everyone else got one shot. I can get behind Gohan and Gotenks getting rusty, but Boo's power shouldn't change.
Regarding MSSJ, I prefer to give no multiplier.

Pretty sure we discussed here before but it goes:
Base - 100
SSJ - 5000
MSSJ - 5000 + X

X being the mastery. In the Cell games someone like Gohan would have a pretty big X while Trunks and Vegeta would still be way down. While in Base they might not be that far apart.

Narratively speaking this works because, in Namek Saiyans reached their ceiling in Base. They can still improve, however zenkais are done for (I think Trunks in Super directly says this) which was a big factor.

Which is why their gains in the three years before the Androids were so limited. What's the solution? For Vegeta it was to improve SSJ by the way of the Grades, bigger multiplier solves the limited improvement in Base.

Goku however went the route of getting stronger while in SSJ. Which connects to the line of Vegeta you quoted.

This line of thought can also be seen in modern Dragon Ball.


Source: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... ysteries/

So in theory SSJ could be improved so much that SSJ2 and SSJ3 would be left behind, like the Grades were.

Regarding Gotenks, I just give very small multipliers. It's magic! My head-canon is that fusion pulls a lot of potential SSJ provides in Base which is why they are so much stronger.
After that it's just tinkering to fit the narrative.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:01 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:45 pm After watching Super Hero I got hyped and also rewatched Battle of Gods for the first time in almost 10 years. In this rewatch I noticed how legitimate Beerus' line about Base Goku being weaker than Freeza is. He's not baiting Goku into transforming, he's not even interested in SSJ1 at all. It's a genuine commentary on Goku's base power.

So I decided to remake my power levels list based on that. I took a look at the Saiyan and Freeza Sagas and managed to tighten the gaps almost enough. Recoome "hardly [takes] any damage" from Vegeta's probably amplified blast, and the same thing is said about Cell tanking Piccolo's Light Grenade. Saiyan Saga Vegeta could charge up from 18k to 24k, so since Vegeta was 30k against Recoome his blast should at least be 40k, almost the same as Recoome's power level itself. Overall I think 1.5x gap can be enough to just tank someone's attack better than Recoome did, and based on KKx2 Goku vs Vegeta even 1.1x is already a blowout. So the Cell Saga mostly goes like this:
But then Gotenks comes and everything falls apart. Lists tend to get really ugly when Gotenks shows up. He's already tough with a 50x multiplier, 125x is just ridiculous. And there's the problem with BoGs itself: You can't keep Freeza > Base Saiyans but ignore Goku and Vegeta > Everyone else. Someone who can beat Goku coming to Earth is instant bad news, and Vegeta himself could trade blows with Beerus and earn his praise after everyone else got one shot. I can get behind Gohan and Gotenks getting rusty, but Boo's power shouldn't change.
Welcome to the not-so-bloated base forms team, then! he wasn't talking about hairstyles either, like others proposed.
It even makes more sense, in hindsight when you see just how OP Freeza ended up being, which of course wasn't even planned back then.

I agree with the list, though a few minor picks:

- I never had the fat and old androids stronger than Freeza before absorbing ki, but I don't care either way, it doesn't really matter.

- I'd put Goten and Trunks not as strong as Gohan and Geets, no matter what the ancillary material says. Like maybe 5-10M below them or something, but not equals nor that far from them either. In that little sparring session between father and son, Geets got serious for a moment and put Trunks down.

About Gotenks, yeah, it's a mess but it can be worked around, I think. His base form being just as strong as SS Trunks sounds about right for Gotenks getting trashed by Fat Buu, in the anime he never goes SS for some reason, maybe he couldn't? But, later on his really strong base doesn't correlate to his FP.
After the ROSAT, I guess it's easier once you assume Super Buu was just humoring SS Gotenks. Fusion is just as strong as the plot needs it to be, so I don't suscribe to a set-in-stone boost, and with Gotenks this is even truer.
If the kids' power is so close to the adults, but the fusion at its greatest ends up being somewhat stronger than SS3 Goku, then either the fusion's boost isn't as straightforward or the fusees aren't as strong. I'd say it's a little bit of both.

In this case, Kaboom's fusion theory works wonderfully, Gotenks' greatest boost is in his base form (post ROSAT), and his SS forms do not provide the same multiplier as they do for regular individuals, but enough for him to be above SS3 Goku as a SS3. So his base form would be somewhat above Goku's, if we are going with normal multipliers.

So, rounding up some arbitrary numbers, if Gotenks SS multipliers are the same , then:
Base Gotenks post ROSAT 90M
Goku 70M
Vegeta 60 M
Gohan 50
Trunks 45
Goten 42

If it's not the same, then:

Pre ROSAT base Gotenks = SS Trunks
Post ROSAT base Gotenks = SS Goku
SS3 Gotenks = x10 boost

LightBing wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:52 am
This line of thought can also be seen in modern Dragon Ball.


Source: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... ysteries/

So in theory SSJ could be improved so much that SSJ2 and SSJ3 would be left behind, like the Grades were.
This is what Enraged BoG Vegeta(and vs SS Black) and FT Trunks did. It also works in Broly, with Vegeta's SS not being enough for Broly (Broly's base could be on SS3 Goku level of power, which could be equal to Vegeta's SS). Making SSG a 10x boost on top of SS3, so a 4,000x boost.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:00 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:45 pm After watching Super Hero I got hyped and also rewatched Battle of Gods for the first time in almost 10 years. In this rewatch I noticed how legitimate Beerus' line about Base Goku being weaker than Freeza is. He's not baiting Goku into transforming, he's not even interested in SSJ1 at all. It's a genuine commentary on Goku's base power.

So I decided to remake my power levels list based on that. I took a look at the Saiyan and Freeza Sagas and managed to tighten the gaps almost enough. Recoome "hardly [takes] any damage" from Vegeta's probably amplified blast, and the same thing is said about Cell tanking Piccolo's Light Grenade. Saiyan Saga Vegeta could charge up from 18k to 24k, so since Vegeta was 30k against Recoome his blast should at least be 40k, almost the same as Recoome's power level itself. Overall I think 1.5x gap can be enough to just tank someone's attack better than Recoome did, and based on KKx2 Goku vs Vegeta even 1.1x is already a blowout. So the Cell Saga mostly goes like this:
But then Gotenks comes and everything falls apart. Lists tend to get really ugly when Gotenks shows up. He's already tough with a 50x multiplier, 125x is just ridiculous. And there's the problem with BoGs itself: You can't keep Freeza > Base Saiyans but ignore Goku and Vegeta > Everyone else. Someone who can beat Goku coming to Earth is instant bad news, and Vegeta himself could trade blows with Beerus and earn his praise after everyone else got one shot. I can get behind Gohan and Gotenks getting rusty, but Boo's power shouldn't change.
If you are talking about SS2 Vegeta vs Beerus before the rage boost then Beerus just praises Vegeta's fighting skill/instinct not power.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:53 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:01 pm Welcome to the not-so-bloated base forms team, then! he wasn't talking about hairstyles either, like others proposed.
It even makes more sense, in hindsight when you see just how OP Freeza ended up being, which of course wasn't even planned back then.
On the matter of the androids, I think they can only be so weak. Vegeta gave 19 a much worse beating than Goku ever did, and since I like to keep everything consistent then Full tank = 1.5x > Vegeta vs 19 > Goku vs 19.

I think I'm definitely going to lower the boys, I'm not comfortable with them being as strong as Gohan though I'd like to see a little something to be sure. I think they should be stronger than CG Goku because of that skirmish with the Cell Jrs on Super though. This looks good:

Goten: 38.4/4,800
Trunks: 40/5,000
Gohan: 48/6,000/12,000
Vegeta: 57.6/7,200/14,400
Goku: 72/9,000/18,000/72,000

10x is definitely too small for SSJ3 Gotenks if he's just = SSJ Goku. Maybe that could work with SSJ1, but I prefer 5x:

Gotenks: 15,000
~ SSJ: 75,000
~ Base, post Rosat: 100,000
~ SSJ: 500,000
~ SSJ3: 4,000,000

Ultimate Gohan: 6,000,000

Super Boo: 4,000,000
~ Gotenks absorbed: 8,000,000
~ Gohan absorbed: 10,000,000

Vegetto: 9,000,000 (At least as strong as Gokhan; Old Kaioshin says he's "definitely the strongest" in the context of fusions)
~ SSJ: 45,000,000

Now this is all very good. Goku is like Raditz next to Gohan being Ginyu, or Freeza next to Cell. I've entertained the idea of Base Gotenks not being that strong post Rosat, but it's a pretty big mental gymnastic. Anyway, time to pack it up and start working on Super I guess.
Goku9001 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:11 am You have got to be joking man. What happened to our "Zero Base Goku < Frieza cult" plan?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:55 am

Beerus claims that only Enraged Vegeta gave him even more entertainment than Goku did. Considering Beerus fought Gohan and Gotenks and didn't find them as entertaining as Goku, it's safe to say that both Goku and Vegeta were recognized as the strongest.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:49 am

QuakingStar wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:01 pm Why would I just use SS for GGA? That makes no sense that GGA wouldn't use the full power and potential of SS along with the Great Ape form, which would be SS3 which according to Toriyama is just another variation of SS.

For SSGod being stronger than fusion that was BoG only. Retcons happen, and what comes later retcons what comes before. SSGod is no longer stronger than fusion and the ToP and DBS Broly Movie literally proves this. Caulifla was defeated and exhausted when they became Kefla, and in base form Kefla completly eclipsed SSG Goku, Goku needed SSBKK to even be able to make SS Kefla be serious at all.

Herms already, literally discussed the whole hypothetical GT Vegito vs SS4 transformation thing and he thought it was more likely or very possible they were referring to a hypothetical SS3 GT Vegito.
Honestly, in canon, if there is any in-universe retcon to fusion is that "fusee's strongest form <<< base fusion" instead of thinking that any one form is directly comparable to base fusion. This would be perfectly consistent with all the fusion fights in the canon besides maybe Gotenks.

That being said, I really think it's a fool's errand to pinpoint fusion's power beyond "as strong as the plot needs" and as well thinking that cross-examining GT and DBS (like if they had any correlation beyond the original series) would actually do any good.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:19 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:01 pmIn this case, Kaboom's fusion theory works wonderfully, Gotenks' greatest boost is in his base form (post ROSAT), and his SS forms do not provide the same multiplier as they do for regular individuals, but enough for him to be above SS3 Goku as a SS3. So his base form would be somewhat above Goku's, if we are going with normal multipliers.
That makes sense. Buu's forms depending on if absorption only adds to his power could imply the gap between Goku, Gotenks, and Ultimate Gohan isn't as big as they're sometimes made out to be. For example:

SSJ3 Goku: ~1. Close enough to Kid Buu that he thought he could win if he could gather enough power.
Kid Buu: 1

Buff Buu: <2 since South Kaioshin should be weaker than Buu.

Super Buu: <2 Between Fat and Buff Buu. He rearranged his existing parts to surpass Fat Buu. When he temporarily reverted to Buff Buu it was implied his power went up. I guess Grand Kaioshin still has some affect on his power but less than he did over Fat Buu.

SSJ3 Gotenks: <2 since he was close to Super Buu in power.

Buutenks: 3-4 about double Super Buu's power

Ultimate Gohan: 2-4. Between Super Buu and Buutenks.

Buuhan: +4

These gaps could work back when the series still had power levels since a small percentage difference was enough to overwhelm their opponent.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:50 pm

QuakingStar wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:24 pm I don't believe in numbers for the series anymore, and after reading Herms translations and his tweets on fusions and Super Saiyan 4 among other things, I have this. Here goes for multipliers.

I notice you still use some of the daiz numbers for the latter forms though. I no longer find it necessary to use the official numbers in my own internal power scaling. The SSJ power multipliers no longer seem static and when I think about it, it doesn't make sense for the power multipliers to be the exact same between characters since it's triggered by biology and not magical math.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:02 pm

How strong was Gohan on Namek, calm and enraged, pre and post Zenkai? We know the baseline for his power level is 200,000; but anything after this is pretty muddy. He’s definitely stronger than Vegeta when enraged, but all he does is get Freeza by surprise. Post Zenkai he (probably enraged) managed to push back 3rd form Freeza, but then Freeza just bounced it back. Both times he fight Freeza he deals 0 damage to Freeza, but still compels him to transform nonetheless.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:02 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:02 pm How strong was Gohan on Namek, calm and enraged, pre and post Zenkai? We know the baseline for his power level is 200,000; but anything after this is pretty muddy. He’s definitely stronger than Vegeta when enraged, but all he does is get Freeza by surprise. Post Zenkai he (probably enraged) managed to push back 3rd form Freeza, but then Freeza just bounced it back. Both times he fight Freeza he deals 0 damage to Freeza, but still compels him to transform nonetheless.
I have these:

Freeza Arc

Son Goku: 3,000,000
-- Kaioken x10: 30,000,000
-- Kaioken x20: 60,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 150,000,000

Freeza [First form]: 530,000
-- Second form: 800,000
-- Power up [vs Son Gohan|Piccolo]: 950,000
-- Full power: 1,200,000
-- Third form: 1,800,000
-- Final form: 3,600,000
-- 50% of full power: 60,000,000
-- 70% of full power: 84,000,000
-- 100% full power: 120,000,000

Vegeta: 250,000
-- Zenkai boost: 2,250,000

Piccolo: 240,000
-- After assimilating Nail: 960,000
-- Without weighted clothes: 1,200,000
-- With Son Gohan and Krillin’s energy: 2,100,000

Son Gohan: 200,000
-- Enraged [vs Second form Freeza]: 750,000
-- Zenkai boost: 400,000
-- Enraged [vs Third form Freeza]: 1,600,000

Krillin: 75,000
-- Continued potential unlock boost: 150,000

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GreatSaiyaman123
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:26 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:02 pm I have these:

Freeza Arc

Son Goku: 3,000,000
-- Kaioken x10: 30,000,000
-- Kaioken x20: 60,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 150,000,000

Freeza [First form]: 530,000
-- Second form: 800,000
-- Power up [vs Son Gohan|Piccolo]: 950,000
-- Full power: 1,200,000
-- Third form: 1,800,000
-- Final form: 3,600,000
-- 50% of full power: 60,000,000
-- 70% of full power: 84,000,000
-- 100% full power: 120,000,000

Vegeta: 250,000
-- Zenkai boost: 2,250,000

Piccolo: 240,000
-- After assimilating Nail: 960,000
-- Without weighted clothes: 1,200,000
-- With Son Gohan and Krillin’s energy: 2,100,000

Son Gohan: 200,000
-- Enraged [vs Second form Freeza]: 750,000
-- Zenkai boost: 400,000
-- Enraged [vs Third form Freeza]: 1,600,000

Krillin: 75,000
-- Continued potential unlock boost: 150,000
I was thinking about Zenkai Gohan being at 400k too, but I also think he should be stronger than Vegeta whom I have at 480k. Before Piccolo arrives Gohan was the one taking charge, though he might still have had some little rage to tap.

I think I’d have this:
Battle Powers List (Manga)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hero » Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:23 am

It's been a while since I've posted here, so what better way than with a power level list!! Haha.

First off, I haven't seen Super outside of the Broly and Superhero movies, so I still go with the 6/10/15 guides for SSJG, Beerus and Whis in Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. Secondly, the Buu saga is a mess when it comes to making sense of who is stronger. Gotenks is implied to be stronger than Goku, possibly massively stronger than Goku... and then later on, Goku is treated as stronger. If Gotenks was 10+ times stronger than Goku, then why was Goku treated as the pinnacle of Earth's power in Battle of Gods even before the SSJG ritual? It's a clear retcon, and I'm going with Gotenks not being massively stronger than Goku. Because if he was, then so many moments after Goku and Vegeta return wouldn't make sense.

Also, only doing this for major players for now.

Multipliers

SSJ/MSSJ - 50x base
SSJ Grade 2 - 1.5x SSJ
SSJ Grade 3 - 2x SSJ (but with drawbacks)

SSJ2 - 2x MSSJ
SSJ3 - 4x SSJ2
Fusion Dance - (Person A + Person B) x Plot
Potara - (Person A x Person B) / Plot
SSJG Ritual - Person A x Plot^2




A Visitor From the Future!!

Trunks - 3,200,000
SSJ - 160,000,000

Goku - 4,000,000
SSJ - 200,000,000

Mecha Frieza (Full unseen power) - 140,000,000
King Cold (Full unseen power) - 90,000,000


Trunks Was Wrong About the Androids How Many Times?

Goku - 6,000,000
SSJ - 300,000,000

Vegeta - 6,400,000
SSJ - 320,000,000

Piccolo
Pre Kami - 225,000,000
Post Kami - 420,000,000

Android 18 - 400,000,000
Android 17 - 420,000,000
Android 16 - 600,000,000
Imperfect Cell (vs. Android 16) - 600,000,000

Semi Perfect Cell - 900,000,000


Welcome to the Room of Infinite Bulls**t

Vegeta - 16,000,000
SSJ - 800,000,000
SSJ Grade 2 - 1,200,000,000

Trunks - 14,250,000
SSJ - 750,000,000
SSJ Grade 2 - 1,125,000,000
SSJ Grade 3 - 1,500,000,000


The 24th Tenkaichi Budo... I Mean, The Cell Games

Goku - 60,000,000
MSSJ - 3,000,000,000

Gohan - 72,000,000
MSSJ - 3,600,000,000
SSJ2 - 7,200,000,000

Vegeta - 48,000,000
SSJ - 2,400,000,000

Trunks - 45,000,000
SSJ - 2,250,000,000

Piccolo - 1,800,000,000

Cell Juniors- 2,500,000,000

Perfect Cell
vs. Goku - 3,200,000,000
Full Power - 4,500,000,000
Super Perfect - 7,000,000,000


7 Years and Gohan Didn't Spend a Single One Training Apparently

Gohan - 56,000,000
MSSJ - 2,800,000,000
SSJ2 - 5,600,000,000

Ultimate Gohan - 60,000,000,000

Vegeta (pre Majin) - 64,000,000
MSSJ - 3,200,000,000
SSJ2 - 6,400,000,000

Goku - 80,000,000
MSSJ - 4,000,000,000
SSJ2 - 8,000,000,000
SSJ3 - 32,000,000,000

Gotenks (post ROSAT) - 100,000,000
MSSJ - 5,000,000,000
SSJ2 (unseen) - 10,000,000,000
SSJ3 - 40,000,000,000

(Gotenks never amounted to much other than rivaling Super Buu, and only as a SSJ3. We never actually get to see him as a MSSJ face off against Fat Buu)

Dabura - 2,500,000,000

Majin Buu
Fat Buu - 24,000,000,000
Good Buu - 10,800,000,000
Evil Buu - 13,200,000,000
Super Buu - 40,000,000,000
Buutenks - 80,000,000,000
Buuhan - 100,000,000,000
Kid Buu - 30,000,000,000

Vegito - 20,000,000,000
MSSJ - 1,000,000,000,000
SSJ2 - 2,000,000,000,000
SSJ3 - 8,000,000,000,000

(Considering the massive energy drain of SSJ3, his massive 8 trillion power level at that form can't be used for long)


Battle of Gods and Retcons

Goku - 90,000,000
MSSJ - 4,500,000,000
SSJ2 - 9,000,000,000
SSJ3 - 36,000,000,000

Vegeta - 85,000,000
MSSJ - 4,250,000,000
SSJ2 - 8,500,000,000
SSJ2 with Gohan's Rage Boost - 85,000,000,000

(Since this is now the Goku and Vegeta show, Vegeta gets Gohan's rage boost and their crazy multipliers)

Less Ultimate Gohan - 30,000,000,000

Notenks - 75,000,000
MSSJ - 3,750,000,000

(By this point, it's clear the writers are pushing the next generation to the side, despite DBZ hyping up the half-Saiyans as having greater potential)

Beerus - 10,000,000,000,000
Whis - 15,000,000,000,000

God Goku
SSJG - 6,000,000,000,000
Base but still has god ki - 3,000,000,000,000
MSSJ but with god ki - 4,500,000,000,000


Frieza But He Did One More Pushup

Goku/ Vegeta - 3,600,000,000,000
SSJGSSJ - 7,200,000,000,000

Unultimate Gohan - 20,000,000
SSJ - 1,000,000,000

(In just one year, Gohan has somehow lost his Ultimate form, his mastery of SSJ, and all his muscles. Amazing what being a scholar will do to you)

Frieza
1st Form - 4,800,000,000
Final Form - 2,400,000,000,000
Golden - 8,000,000,000,000

Beerus - 10,000,000,000,000
Whis - 15,000,000,000,000


The True Final Saga

El Padre Grande - 100,000,000,000,000

Shaggy with One Extra Scooby Snack - 1,000,000,000,000,000

ScrewAttack Superman - Infinity x Eternity

GT Base Goku - (Infinity x Eternity)^2

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