Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Ultimate_Nova_X
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Ultimate_Nova_X » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:51 am

Damn, been over half a decade since I last logged in. A lot has changed since then.

So how's the community been? Any general consensus on the arbitrary numbers known as Battle Powers?

Kakarot is a great game by the way. It also has BP (but mostly for show). Post-Buu saga base Gokuu is roughly 25 million.

I made a list a few years back but never shared it, don't have it anymore as I've switched PCs a couple of times since then.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:31 am

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:51 am Damn, been over half a decade since I last logged in. A lot has changed since then.

So how's the community been? Any general consensus on the arbitrary numbers known as Battle Powers?

Kakarot is a great game by the way. It also has BP (but mostly for show). Post-Buu saga base Gokuu is roughly 25 million.

I made a list a few years back but never shared it, don't have it anymore as I've switched PCs a couple of times since then.
I hope you're not thinking about giving some videogame power any actual credibility inside the canon verse lmao

That wouldn't work

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:00 am

Have a nice return and good discussions. In my opinion consensus isn’t a need, so don’t refrain from stating your position, even if it doesn’t line well with the majority.

On that note, though Kakarot’s battle powers aren’t less official than Daizenshuu’s, you will see a lot of resistance in the community somehow.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Ultimate_Nova_X » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am

p-hyvo wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:31 am I hope you're not thinking about giving some videogame power any actual credibility inside the canon verse lmao

That wouldn't work
You could make the same statement against any media that isn't the original Japanese manga. It being a video game doesn't make it less valid than the Daizenshuu or the SEG, nor does it make it more valid than Golden Freeza's BP being 10^20 (which was meant to be a joke pun).
Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:00 am Have a nice return and good discussions. In my opinion consensus isn’t a need, so don’t refrain from stating your position, even if it doesn’t line well with the majority.

On that note, though Kakarot’s battle powers aren’t less official than Daizenshuu’s, you will see a lot of resistance in the community somehow.
Cool, thanks. I don't see myself here often though. Between the time-skip of me not being here, I went from "still in college" to "well on the way to financial freedom". Real life has a lot of ideas on how I should spend my time.

I asked for a consensus to see if there's anything I should consider when I form my opinion. I'm not exactly the most diligent when it comes to these things. I'm no Seththeprogrammer nor will I ever be.

I don't have the galaxy brain to make a Super list, but do we have a consensus on the multipliers of SSG and SSGSS?

Resistance against Kakarot's BPs? I would imagine it's simply the fact that it's new, and gives newer "official" insight. While I agree with you that it's no less official than the Dai, to be fair, you could influence it somewhat to show a slightly different number through gameplay.

Back in the day, when the SEG was new, there were lots of resistance against SS3 being 4x SS2, due to it being ass at feats and fights in-universe. But I haven't really seen that anymore.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about Vegito = Gokuu x Vegeta. I was actually one of the few that took it literally back in the day. But as an older man, I today, can definitely see how it's hard to swallow.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:02 pm

Goku being 25M in the Buu arc is probably something everybody'd agree is lowballing, but it isn't impossible either. We know that in base they can't fight Namek Freeza (although 10xKK fucks him up), but there aren't many things they've done and couldn't do at 25 M.
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am

I don't have the galaxy brain to make a Super list, but do we have a consensus on the multipliers of SSG and SSGSS?



For the manga, SSB is like 10x SSG. For the anime it seems to be more like 50x SSG, but maybe 10x works as well. Goku can kaioken the fuck out of that 50x boost, though, so it really is bloated as hell in the anime.

SSG is a headache. It's implied to be above the boost received by potara fusion according to BoG, but later on, in Broly for instance, it doesn't seem to make Vegeta that much stronger than he was as a SS or SS2(which in his case, SS or SS2 is stronger than SS3 Goku) who got overwhelmed by somebody 10x stronger later.
By now, I'd say it's similar to fusion of characters with no god forms available(or freaks of nature like Kale), probably 10x SS3 or something like that.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Ultimate_Nova_X » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:33 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:02 pm Goku being 25M in the Buu arc is probably something everybody'd agree is lowballing, but it isn't impossible either. We know that in base they can't fight Namek Freeza (although 10xKK fucks him up), but there aren't many things they've done and couldn't do at 25 M.

For the manga, SSB is like 10x SSG. For the anime it seems to be more like 50x SSG, but maybe 10x works as well. Goku can kaioken the fuck out of that 50x boost, though, so it really is bloated as hell in the anime.

SSG is a headache. It's implied to be above the boost received by potara fusion according to BoG, but later on, in Broly for instance, it doesn't seem to make Vegeta that much stronger than he was as a SS or SS2(which in his case, SS or SS2 is stronger than SS3 Goku) who got overwhelmed by somebody 10x stronger later.
By now, I'd say it's similar to fusion of characters with no god forms available(or freaks of nature like Kale), probably 10x SS3 or something like that.
Yeah, I don't agree with the 25M either. Btw, did we know base Gokuu can't fight Namek Freeza pre-2013 before the Beerus statement?

Yeah, that statement in the manga, assuming Gokuu and Vegeta are the same power, means SSGSS is between 5x and 10x.

SSG is dumbly inconsistent, but perhaps it isn't a multiplier but an addition of God ki, and as your base form gets closer to god-level powerful, the less the "multiplier" SSG is. Or some bullshit like that.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:44 am

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:33 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:02 pm Goku being 25M in the Buu arc is probably something everybody'd agree is lowballing, but it isn't impossible either. We know that in base they can't fight Namek Freeza (although 10xKK fucks him up), but there aren't many things they've done and couldn't do at 25 M.

For the manga, SSB is like 10x SSG. For the anime it seems to be more like 50x SSG, but maybe 10x works as well. Goku can kaioken the fuck out of that 50x boost, though, so it really is bloated as hell in the anime.

SSG is a headache. It's implied to be above the boost received by potara fusion according to BoG, but later on, in Broly for instance, it doesn't seem to make Vegeta that much stronger than he was as a SS or SS2(which in his case, SS or SS2 is stronger than SS3 Goku) who got overwhelmed by somebody 10x stronger later.
By now, I'd say it's similar to fusion of characters with no god forms available(or freaks of nature like Kale), probably 10x SS3 or something like that.
Yeah, I don't agree with the 25M either. Btw, did we know base Gokuu can't fight Namek Freeza pre-2013 before the Beerus statement?

Yeah, that statement in the manga, assuming Gokuu and Vegeta are the same power, means SSGSS is between 5x and 10x.

SSG is dumbly inconsistent, but perhaps it isn't a multiplier but an addition of God ki, and as your base form gets closer to god-level powerful, the less the "multiplier" SSG is. Or some bullshit like that.
No, the opposite was implied, actually, with GT having base Goku beat stronger versions of Cell and Freeza at the same time without breaking a sweat, and there are filler episodes that I'm forgetting that surely imply base Goku > Freeza. There's still people not buying Beerus' statement.
I, myself, prior to 2013 was dead sure SS would've been overkill.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:34 pm

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:51 am Damn, been over half a decade since I last logged in. A lot has changed since then.

So how's the community been? Any general consensus on the arbitrary numbers known as Battle Powers?

Kakarot is a great game by the way. It also has BP (but mostly for show). Post-Buu saga base Gokuu is roughly 25 million.

I made a list a few years back but never shared it, don't have it anymore as I've switched PCs a couple of times since then.
If anything it's gotten even worse lol. There's a lot of stuff to discuss not just about Super itself, but also the new insight it offers on the old series. A minor example would be a recent chapter saying Monaito (who's very weak even for a older Namekian and can't even heal Goku properly) has a power level of 213, confirming Dende has a power level above that.

I'd draw a line between videogames and guidebooks as sources. The latter actually mean to clarify things about the universe as it's sole purpose, while games are just to be played and the numbers, as you said, are just "for show". I don't think 25 million works numerically unless you don't really care about SSJ multipliers.

Though even guidebooks themselves have some weird stuff that don't make a lot of sense. Daizenshuu 7 claiming Gotenks didn't surpass Vegeta until after training in the Rosat is a famous example. I have no idea where the people who wrote this entry got this idea from. Probably filler.

I think you could try your hand at making a list slowly. Lot of people do their lists on Google Docs, maybe you could do one saga at a time. I'm doing a very fancy list there with images and explanations and all. Only did the Saiyan Saga though, and haven't touched the list on a couple weeks.
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am Resistance against Kakarot's BPs? I would imagine it's simply the fact that it's new, and gives newer "official" insight. While I agree with you that it's no less official than the Dai, to be fair, you could influence it somewhat to show a slightly different number through gameplay.

Back in the day, when the SEG was new, there were lots of resistance against SS3 being 4x SS2, due to it being ass at feats and fights in-universe. But I haven't really seen that anymore.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about Vegito = Gokuu x Vegeta. I was actually one of the few that took it literally back in the day. But as an older man, I today, can definitely see how it's hard to swallow.
I don't really like to hang on multipliers because they're mostly plot based. If I see something doesn't work then I change it, even if it's just for one saga.

I think the in universe explanation for this would be that SSJ relies mostly on emotions and potential (As the Daizenshuu suggests, though the same entry mentions the 50x multiplier :crazy: ). There's also the matter of Ki control: characters also often power up way beyond their limits without transforming. See the new Broly movie with Vegeta fighting with a golden aura or Broly himself using Oozaru-like power without transforming. The principle of Mastered Super Saiyan is to use the power of the buff forms without further transforming/buffing up: The same principle should be applied to other forms with proper Ki control. Just look at Trunks reaching SSJ3 Goku's power as a SSJ2 in the DBS Manga.

Anyway, as the name suggests SSJGSSJ is SSJ stacked on top of SSJG, so it should be 50x or whathever SSJ1 multiplier you use at the time. SSJG seems to lose it's potency after the ritual: In BoGs SSJG Goku is stronger than a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto, but in the ToP Kefla is far above SSJG Goku without even transforming. A fatigued SSJG Goku sure, but she still have even Blue Goku a hard time and made him go UI Sign for the second time. This is probably because Goku had already absorbed SSJG into his lower forms, so the form doesn't offer much of a boost anymore.

Goku doesn't absorb SSJG's power in the manga, but the fight with Hit also suggests some puny multipliers.
Koitsukai wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:02 pm For the manga, SSB is like 10x SSG. For the anime it seems to be more like 50x SSG, but maybe 10x works as well. Goku can kaioken the fuck out of that 50x boost, though, so it really is bloated as hell in the anime.
But <10% SSJB Vegeta got shat on by Hit, while SSJG Goku blew him away. The fight actually suggests SSJB is 10x SSJ1, not SSJG. Both Vegeta and SSJ1 Goku were affected by Hit's timeskip, with Whis says only affects people on Hit's level.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:12 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:34 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:02 pm For the manga, SSB is like 10x SSG. For the anime it seems to be more like 50x SSG, but maybe 10x works as well. Goku can kaioken the fuck out of that 50x boost, though, so it really is bloated as hell in the anime.
But <10% SSJB Vegeta got shat on by Hit, while SSJG Goku blew him away. The fight actually suggests SSJB is 10x SSJ1, not SSJG. Both Vegeta and SSJ1 Goku were affected by Hit's timeskip, with Whis says only affects people on Hit's level.
Wait, you don't actually believe that, right? that would mean you believe SSG to be like 5x SS(if SSB is twice SSG, that is, and should at the very least be that)... meaning SSG would be a bit stronger than SS2, at best. Something not supported by BoG, like... at... all.

SS3 is 8x SS... you are saying SSB is only 10x SS? then SS3 >>>>>>>> SSG.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:40 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:12 pm
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:34 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:02 pm For the manga, SSB is like 10x SSG. For the anime it seems to be more like 50x SSG, but maybe 10x works as well. Goku can kaioken the fuck out of that 50x boost, though, so it really is bloated as hell in the anime.
But <10% SSJB Vegeta got shat on by Hit, while SSJG Goku blew him away. The fight actually suggests SSJB is 10x SSJ1, not SSJG. Both Vegeta and SSJ1 Goku were affected by Hit's timeskip, with Whis says only affects people on Hit's level.
Wait, you don't actually believe that, right? that would mean you believe SSG to be like 5x SS(if SSB is twice SSG, that is, and should at the very least be that)... meaning SSG would be a bit stronger than SS2, at best. Something not supported by BoG, like... at... all.

SS3 is 8x SS... you are saying SSB is only 10x SS? then SS3 >>>>>>>> SSG.
I think it’s pretty obvious this logic discards the old multipliers entirely. Gargantuan gaps being reinterpreted as small ones numerically isn’t something new to the series: Think of all the “several times stronger” statements that were retconned when scouters were introduced. This is because the writers don’t really think as much as we do when crafting those numbers.

But I think you could argue Hit went easier on SSJ1 Goku than he did on SSJB Vegeta, I guess. I mean even Base Goku was taking Hit’s blows…SSJB < 10x SSJG is pretty much a fact though. Hit was embarrassed pretty badly by SSJG Goku.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:05 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:40 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:12 pm
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:34 pm


But <10% SSJB Vegeta got shat on by Hit, while SSJG Goku blew him away. The fight actually suggests SSJB is 10x SSJ1, not SSJG. Both Vegeta and SSJ1 Goku were affected by Hit's timeskip, with Whis says only affects people on Hit's level.
Wait, you don't actually believe that, right? that would mean you believe SSG to be like 5x SS(if SSB is twice SSG, that is, and should at the very least be that)... meaning SSG would be a bit stronger than SS2, at best. Something not supported by BoG, like... at... all.

SS3 is 8x SS... you are saying SSB is only 10x SS? then SS3 >>>>>>>> SSG.
I think it’s pretty obvious this logic discards the old multipliers entirely. Gargantuan gaps being reinterpreted as small ones numerically isn’t something new to the series: Think of all the “several times stronger” statements that were retconned when scouters were introduced. This is because the writers don’t really think as much as we do when crafting those numbers.

But I think you could argue Hit went easier on SSJ1 Goku than he did on SSJB Vegeta, I guess. I mean even Base Goku was taking Hit’s blows…SSJB < 10x SSJG is pretty much a fact though. Hit was embarrassed pretty badly by SSJG Goku.
But then we are having SS2, SS3, SSG and SSB, that's four transformations, within a 10x boost, when we know between the blond forms there are already important gaps, and we also know the god forms represent a whole new world, you would have to retcon pretty much every DBS commentary about the red and blue forms. Goku can't be so amazed and "embarrassed" to depend on the ritual if he was just less than 10x stronger than his regular SS.

Vegeta's performance was due to incomplete SSB being a drag. Actually, the whole point was to introduce how inefficient SSB can be, not to establish multipliers between the forms, we just read too much into it.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:55 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:05 pm But then we are having SS2, SS3, SSG and SSB, that's four transformations, within a 10x boost, when we know between the blond forms there are already important gaps, and we also know the god forms represent a whole new world, you would have to retcon pretty much every DBS commentary about the red and blue forms. Goku can't be so amazed and "embarrassed" to depend on the ritual if he was just less than 10x stronger than his regular SS.

Vegeta's performance was due to incomplete SSB being a drag. Actually, the whole point was to introduce how inefficient SSB can be, not to establish multipliers between the forms, we just read too much into it.
Don't get me wrong, SSJG is definitely worlds above even SSJ3 Vegetto in BoGs. It's just that the form isn't treated as much of a big deal after the ritual. Remember how the anime had Base Kefla clowning SSJG Goku? Same is probably the case here.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by SoulSurj » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:42 pm

p-hyvo wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:44 am
SoulSurj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:40 pm
Thani wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:29 pm When was Golden Oozaru equated with fusion, in terms of raw power?
There wasn't a direct statement. I calculated their multipliers when I compared the two to Baby Vegeta and found that they were about the same distance from Goku's base forms.

(Buu arc) Base Goku
Ssj 3 Buu Arc Goku= (GT) Base Goku
Ssj 3 (GT) Goku< Ssj Baby Vegeta
Ssj Baby Vegeta<= Super Vegito
Super Vegito> 160,000× (Buu arc) Base Goku
Super Baby 1= 2× Ssj Baby Vegeta
Super Baby 2 (4× Super Baby 1)= GO Goku
Golden Oozaru Goku> 3,200× (GT) Base Goku
GO Baby Vegeta/Ssj 4 Goku= 10× Super Baby 2
Gt base Goku>>>ssj3 Buu saga Goku*
GT Goku's base form becomes stronger than ssj 3 Buu arc after Baby is defeated. Prior to that he equals it.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:48 am

SoulSurj wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:42 pm
p-hyvo wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:44 am
SoulSurj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:40 pm

There wasn't a direct statement. I calculated their multipliers when I compared the two to Baby Vegeta and found that they were about the same distance from Goku's base forms.

(Buu arc) Base Goku
Ssj 3 Buu Arc Goku= (GT) Base Goku
Ssj 3 (GT) Goku< Ssj Baby Vegeta
Ssj Baby Vegeta<= Super Vegito
Super Vegito> 160,000× (Buu arc) Base Goku
Super Baby 1= 2× Ssj Baby Vegeta
Super Baby 2 (4× Super Baby 1)= GO Goku
Golden Oozaru Goku> 3,200× (GT) Base Goku
GO Baby Vegeta/Ssj 4 Goku= 10× Super Baby 2
Gt base Goku>>>ssj3 Buu saga Goku*
GT Goku's base form becomes stronger than ssj 3 Buu arc after Baby is defeated. Prior to that he equals it.
Becomes stronger than z ssj3 from the get go*

He's kid Buu tier already in EP 1, and kid Buu is blatantly>>z ssj3

I'll never get why nobody understands the way kid Buu was playing with Goku all the time. We see fullpower kid Buu only in one istance, when he was bodying the genkidama

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:56 am

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am
p-hyvo wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:31 am I hope you're not thinking about giving some videogame power any actual credibility inside the canon verse lmao

That wouldn't work
You could make the same statement against any media that isn't the original Japanese manga. It being a video game doesn't make it less valid than the Daizenshuu or the SEG, nor does it make it more valid than Golden Freeza's BP being 10^20 (which was meant to be a joke pun).
Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:00 am Have a nice return and good discussions. In my opinion consensus isn’t a need, so don’t refrain from stating your position, even if it doesn’t line well with the majority.

On that note, though Kakarot’s battle powers aren’t less official than Daizenshuu’s, you will see a lot of resistance in the community somehow.
Cool, thanks. I don't see myself here often though. Between the time-skip of me not being here, I went from "still in college" to "well on the way to financial freedom". Real life has a lot of ideas on how I should spend my time.

I asked for a consensus to see if there's anything I should consider when I form my opinion. I'm not exactly the most diligent when it comes to these things. I'm no Seththeprogrammer nor will I ever be.

I don't have the galaxy brain to make a Super list, but do we have a consensus on the multipliers of SSG and SSGSS?

Resistance against Kakarot's BPs? I would imagine it's simply the fact that it's new, and gives newer "official" insight. While I agree with you that it's no less official than the Dai, to be fair, you could influence it somewhat to show a slightly different number through gameplay.

Back in the day, when the SEG was new, there were lots of resistance against SS3 being 4x SS2, due to it being ass at feats and fights in-universe. But I haven't really seen that anymore.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about Vegito = Gokuu x Vegeta. I was actually one of the few that took it literally back in the day. But as an older man, I today, can definitely see how it's hard to swallow.
There can't really be consensus on the god multiplier until we are given an official one. And that won't ever happen

If we look at feats, bog arc god is at least omega shenron tier since they scale from the same things

But not a lot of people is ready to admit that, same way as as many people can't still admit that the bog statement from Beerus on base Goku doesn't mean shit, since it gets decontestualized Everytime ignoring previously established things and the fact that the rest of the scene that statement is in literally debunks it giving the idea that Beerus didn't really know the power of Frieza and just highballed him due to his role

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:20 am

But not a lot of people is ready to admit that, same way as as many people can't still admit that the bog statement from Beerus on base Goku doesn't mean shit, since it gets decontestualized Everytime ignoring previously established things and the fact that the rest of the scene that statement is in literally debunks it giving the idea that Beerus didn't really know the power of Frieza and just highballed him due to his role

Ok, since i know that what I said on bog base Goku will be blasted by an horde of no brainers, i come alredy armed finely .

https://i.imgur.com/9EyYKum.jpg
That's Beerus seeing base Goku. Nothing strange, but...

https://i.imgur.com/tDhEdkZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eaRJtUI.jpg
When Goku turns ssj, Beerus then says this. The thing about base Goku is losing credit now

https://i.imgur.com/WKGNynn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/A6BmvWr.jpg
That's the final shot that kills the thing. Beerus says that after seeing ssj2 Goku.

Soo, or we take this face value to scale z Frieza ≈ bog ssj2>>SPC>>>z Frieza (lmao) or the whole scene is Just Beerus being stupid , wanking Frieza for the role he had and having really no idea of how strong he was.
And that makes sense, from his prospective. We're talking about Beerus, someone so much more stronger than any mortal that any of them looks the same way in his eyes.

Not to talk about the fact that wanting to willingly consider the statement means directly contraddicting all the z scaling at once + what yo son Goku and his friends return extabilished with base Goten and trunks, which i remember being canon to super

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:48 pm

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am I don't have the galaxy brain to make a Super list, but do we have a consensus on the multipliers of SSG and SSGSS?
For me the manga implies there is a huge difference between SS3 and SSG and a not so drastic difference between SSG and SSGSS. I suggest you check Goku vs. Toppo in the manga when you have the time.

I would say it’s more or less something like this:
SSG: SS x50
SSGSS: SSG x2
SSGSS Evolution: SSGSS x4
Ultra Ego/Instinct: SSG x50

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by SoulSurj » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:46 pm

p-hyvo wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:48 am
SoulSurj wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:42 pm
p-hyvo wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:44 am

Gt base Goku>>>ssj3 Buu saga Goku*
GT Goku's base form becomes stronger than ssj 3 Buu arc after Baby is defeated. Prior to that he equals it.
Becomes stronger than z ssj3 from the get go*

He's kid Buu tier already in EP 1, and kid Buu is blatantly>>z ssj3

I'll never get why nobody understands the way kid Buu was playing with Goku all the time. We see fullpower kid Buu only in one istance, when he was bodying the genkidama
Goku says that he wasn't fighting seriously either and both he and Vegeta claim that at full power Ss 3 Goku could beat Kid Buu. The two are considered equal because it's unclear whether or not Ss 3 Goku could've pulled off beating Buu.

SoulSurj
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by SoulSurj » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:57 am

p-hyvo wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:20 am
But not a lot of people is ready to admit that, same way as as many people can't still admit that the bog statement from Beerus on base Goku doesn't mean shit, since it gets decontestualized Everytime ignoring previously established things and the fact that the rest of the scene that statement is in literally debunks it giving the idea that Beerus didn't really know the power of Frieza and just highballed him due to his role

Ok, since i know that what I said on bog base Goku will be blasted by an horde of no brainers, i come alredy armed finely .

https://i.imgur.com/9EyYKum.jpg
That's Beerus seeing base Goku. Nothing strange, but...

https://i.imgur.com/tDhEdkZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eaRJtUI.jpg
When Goku turns ssj, Beerus then says this. The thing about base Goku is losing credit now

https://i.imgur.com/WKGNynn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/A6BmvWr.jpg
That's the final shot that kills the thing. Beerus says that after seeing ssj2 Goku.

Soo, or we take this face value to scale z Frieza ≈ bog ssj2>>SPC>>>z Frieza (lmao) or the whole scene is Just Beerus being stupid , wanking Frieza for the role he had and having really no idea of how strong he was.
And that makes sense, from his prospective. We're talking about Beerus, someone so much more stronger than any mortal that any of them looks the same way in his eyes.

Not to talk about the fact that wanting to willingly consider the statement means directly contraddicting all the z scaling at once + what yo son Goku and his friends return extabilished with base Goten and trunks, which i remember being canon to super
I think those are old translations. I just rewatched the fight on Crunchyroll and Beerus never said most of those statements. There's also not much contradicting what Beerus said about Base Goku since most of Base Goku's fights and feats after Frieza are filler. Base Goten and Trunks were rusty and compared to first form Frieza in the special so nothing is contradicted there either.

SoulSurj
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by SoulSurj » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:05 am

p-hyvo wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:56 am
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am
p-hyvo wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:31 am I hope you're not thinking about giving some videogame power any actual credibility inside the canon verse lmao

That wouldn't work
You could make the same statement against any media that isn't the original Japanese manga. It being a video game doesn't make it less valid than the Daizenshuu or the SEG, nor does it make it more valid than Golden Freeza's BP being 10^20 (which was meant to be a joke pun).
Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:00 am Have a nice return and good discussions. In my opinion consensus isn’t a need, so don’t refrain from stating your position, even if it doesn’t line well with the majority.

On that note, though Kakarot’s battle powers aren’t less official than Daizenshuu’s, you will see a lot of resistance in the community somehow.
Cool, thanks. I don't see myself here often though. Between the time-skip of me not being here, I went from "still in college" to "well on the way to financial freedom". Real life has a lot of ideas on how I should spend my time.

I asked for a consensus to see if there's anything I should consider when I form my opinion. I'm not exactly the most diligent when it comes to these things. I'm no Seththeprogrammer nor will I ever be.

I don't have the galaxy brain to make a Super list, but do we have a consensus on the multipliers of SSG and SSGSS?

Resistance against Kakarot's BPs? I would imagine it's simply the fact that it's new, and gives newer "official" insight. While I agree with you that it's no less official than the Dai, to be fair, you could influence it somewhat to show a slightly different number through gameplay.

Back in the day, when the SEG was new, there were lots of resistance against SS3 being 4x SS2, due to it being ass at feats and fights in-universe. But I haven't really seen that anymore.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about Vegito = Gokuu x Vegeta. I was actually one of the few that took it literally back in the day. But as an older man, I today, can definitely see how it's hard to swallow.
There can't really be consensus on the god multiplier until we are given an official one. And that won't ever happen

If we look at feats, bog arc god is at least omega shenron tier since they scale from the same things
Omega's feats are different from Goku's. Omega was going to destroy the universe by just existing. Heck, any one of the Shadow Dragons could've done that given enough time because that feat was attributed to Negative Energy and not the dragons' power levels. Ssg Goku and Beerus were going to destroy the universe because they clashed with each other at a high power level but GT is a different continuity with different statements, ways of scaling feats, and form multipliers so you can scale GT characters up to Super's level with little to no difficulty despite feats and statements between the two shows making no sense with each other in mind.

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