Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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ZombieVito
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:16 am

Toyotaro is a massive AT fanboy so I'm sure he uses what happens in the movies for the damn manga.

He even used the promo he did for RoF in some flashbacks.

Freeza's fight with SS Kefla is very inconclusive. Freeza just throws rocks at her without even throwing a punch. For all we know, he's massively weaker than her.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:43 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:52 pm
And I disagree. Nowhere was it even implied it accounted for his "inner" strength. Base Goku didn't fall because he's over the Kaioshin level in base. Is as simple as that.
Even if Goku was stronger than Kaioshins in base, that wouldn’t explain why he didn’t pass out, specially because everything below God level would have the same end. Everything until SS3 level. The only ones that managed to stand were those God level people and of course the angels weren’t affected at all. Unless you think Base Goku is God level, but that is contradicted by the fight he had with Toppo. If we adopted your logic, Base Goku would be stronger than Super Saiyan kids in the Boo Arc as well, because he isn’t blown away by their full power.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:14 am

Guys, do you believe that each Killi is 50, 000 Battle power?

It has been bothering me because when Super Saiyan Goku is measured in the Buu saga, that would mean that he was the same as in the Freeza saga. Even though he trained so much and even uses Grade 4 SSJ.

Even though I can accept the fact that Goku didn't train his Base form's power, as stated by Whis himself in Super, it is somewhat impossible to not grow in power after all these years of constant fight and training.

Is this a plot hole, a power scaling mistake or are Killi calculated differently in comparison to Power levels?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:25 am

Even if that's the case, it brings into question how strong SS Goku and Vegeta are, then.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:28 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:14 am
Guys, do you believe that each Killi is 50, 000 Battle power?

It has been bothering me because when Super Saiyan Goku is measured in the Buu saga, that would mean that he was the same as in the Freeza saga. Even though he trained so much and even uses Grade 4 SSJ.

Even though I can accept the fact that Goku didn't train his Base form's power, as stated by Whis himself in Super, it is somewhat impossible to not grow in power after all these years of constant fight and training.

Is this a plot hole, a power scaling mistake or are Killi calculated differently in comparison to Power levels?
No, that thing couldn't simply work (pretty much as every single power level from vjump, kek)
It is just incoherent, and in that case you can't think that 3000 kiri is suprpessed ssj3 Goku, because they stated ssj3 Goku at 1,2 billions, or 150 millions x8 and that would be ssj3 multiplier according to daizenshuu.

To grow stronger as a ssj or whatever, Goku needed to train (even passively) his base, because transformations are multipliers, so the Y result depends on the X base times the multiplier

Concluding, is just one of the lots and lots of wrong things came out of that madheads of v jump. Just go straight and don't consider it at all, it's just wrong as every other number from there.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:42 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:43 am
ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:52 pm
And I disagree. Nowhere was it even implied it accounted for his "inner" strength. Base Goku didn't fall because he's over the Kaioshin level in base. Is as simple as that.
Even if Goku was stronger than Kaioshins in base, that wouldn’t explain why he didn’t pass out, specially because everything below God level would have the same end. Everything until SS3 level. The only ones that managed to stand were those God level people and of course the angels weren’t affected at all. Unless you think Base Goku is God level, but that is contradicted by the fight he had with Toppo. If we adopted your logic, Base Goku would be stronger than Super Saiyan kids in the Boo Arc as well, because he isn’t blown away by their full power.
He didn't faint because he was away from it.

The kids example doesn't work. Expelling your aura isn't exactly an attack like the roar is.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:46 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:14 am
Is this a plot hole, a power scaling mistake or are Killi calculated differently in comparison to Power levels?
Goku wasn’t at full power when they measured his battle power. So, 3,000 kili could be just the new “5,000” from his fight against Recoome.
ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:42 am
He didn't faint because he was away from it.

The kids example doesn't work. Expelling your aura isn't exactly an attack like the roar is.
Everyone was in the range of the attack. That wouldn’t make a difference. Auras and roars both generate shockwaves.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Soldierofficial » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:53 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:16 am
.
For all we know, he's massively weaker than her.
No, he is not. Caulifla's attacks did nothing to him, Caulifla was slightly stronger, but both are definitely comparable, Goku probably needed to transform into SSJ against him, like he used SSJ against Frost, who is weaker than Freeza.

Freeza stomps Base Caulifla so he is definitely much stronger than Base Goku.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 pm

Goku wasn’t at full power when they measured his battle power. So, 3,000 kili could be just the new “5,000” from his fight against Recoome.
No, non really.
3000 kiri with 1 kiri= 50'000 translates to a power level of 150'000'000, and in vjump ssj3 buu saga Goku is listed at 1'200'000'000, exactly 150'000'000 x8.
So, according to them, ssj buu saga Goku = ssj Goku on namecc, and we don't need a lot to get that this thing is nonsense.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:22 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 pm
Goku wasn’t at full power when they measured his battle power. So, 3,000 kili could be just the new “5,000” from his fight against Recoome.
No, non really.
3000 kiri with 1 kiri= 50'000 translates to a power level of 150'000'000, and in vjump ssj3 buu saga Goku is listed at 1'200'000'000, exactly 150'000'000 x8.
So, according to them, ssj buu saga Goku = ssj Goku on namecc, and we don't need a lot to get that this thing is nonsense.
Truth be told, it would make power scaling a whole lot easier if this was the case. XD

In their head cannon, it is the case. It was a mistake of mine to try and measure power levels from official unofficial sources and add them somehow in the overall power scale. These things aren't that credible after all.

But, I think that some times they may provide valuable info on power scaling matters, because it is the closest thing that we can get to official sources.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:25 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:22 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 pm
Goku wasn’t at full power when they measured his battle power. So, 3,000 kili could be just the new “5,000” from his fight against Recoome.
No, non really.
3000 kiri with 1 kiri= 50'000 translates to a power level of 150'000'000, and in vjump ssj3 buu saga Goku is listed at 1'200'000'000, exactly 150'000'000 x8.
So, according to them, ssj buu saga Goku = ssj Goku on namecc, and we don't need a lot to get that this thing is nonsense.
Truth be told, it would make power scaling a whole lot easier if this was the case. XD

In their head cannon, it is the case. It was a mistake of mine to try and measure power levels from official unofficial sources and add them somehow in the overall power scale. These things aren't that credible after all.

But, I think that some times they may provide valuable info on power scaling matters, because it is the closest thing that we can get to official sources.
V jump it's just to take and throw out of the window. speaking of power scaling, nothing they provide is valuable, nor the power levels nor the relationships between them.
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:37 pm

Soldierofficial wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:53 pm
ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:16 am
.
For all we know, he's massively weaker than her.
No, he is not. Caulifla's attacks did nothing to him, Caulifla was slightly stronger, but both are definitely comparable, Goku probably needed to transform into SSJ against him, like he used SSJ against Frost, who is weaker than Freeza.

Freeza stomps Base Caulifla so he is definitely much stronger than Base Goku.
You do realize we are talking about someone who survived an exploding planet while being cut in half and having next to nothing in energy right?

Guy is durable as fuck.

Base Caulifa is also not as strong as base Goku on the manga.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:46 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 pm
Goku wasn’t at full power when they measured his battle power. So, 3,000 kili could be just the new “5,000” from his fight against Recoome.
No, non really.
3000 kiri with 1 kiri= 50'000 translates to a power level of 150'000'000, and in vjump ssj3 buu saga Goku is listed at 1'200'000'000, exactly 150'000'000 x8.
So, according to them, ssj buu saga Goku = ssj Goku on namecc, and we don't need a lot to get that this thing is nonsense.
V-Jump doesn’t have a battle power number for SS3. It only has for Super Gogeta (2.5 billion) and for Broli (1.4 billion).

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:00 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:46 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 pm
Goku wasn’t at full power when they measured his battle power. So, 3,000 kili could be just the new “5,000” from his fight against Recoome.
No, non really.
3000 kiri with 1 kiri= 50'000 translates to a power level of 150'000'000, and in vjump ssj3 buu saga Goku is listed at 1'200'000'000, exactly 150'000'000 x8.
So, according to them, ssj buu saga Goku = ssj Goku on namecc, and we don't need a lot to get that this thing is nonsense.
V-Jump doesn’t have a battle power number for SS3. It only has for Super Gogeta (2.5 billion) and for Broli (1.4 billion).
Frankly, they did try to make these power levels somewhat related to each other. I can see Goku with a PL of 3 million and Vegeta with one of 2.5 million, fusing into Gogeta and then turn SSJ to have a total of 2.5 billion.

It just requires the pre-retcon fusion dance multiplier that someone uses and perhaps an alteration to Super Saiyan boosts and multipliers.

Not that I support their scaling, but they did measure the relevance factor with each character. Props to them for that.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Soldierofficial » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:22 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:37 pm
Soldierofficial wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:53 pm
ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:16 am
.
For all we know, he's massively weaker than her.
No, he is not. Caulifla's attacks did nothing to him, Caulifla was slightly stronger, but both are definitely comparable, Goku probably needed to transform into SSJ against him, like he used SSJ against Frost, who is weaker than Freeza.

Freeza stomps Base Caulifla so he is definitely much stronger than Base Goku.
You do realize we are talking about someone who survived an exploding planet while being cut in half and having next to nothing in energy right?

Guy is durable as fuck.

Base Caulifa is also not as strong as base Goku on the manga.
That does not mean that he cannot die after receiving attacks 50 times stronger than him, that makes no sense, we have seen characters being able to hurt him when they were even weaker than him.

SSJ Caulifla and Freeza are comparable since neither could defeat the other and both admitted that their opponent was strong, there is nothing to prove that Caulifla was dozens of times more powerful.

Base Caulifla is stronger than Base Cabba, who is comparable to Base Vegeta, who is as strong as Goku, so they are at least comparable, Goku didn't improve anything since the previous tournament, he said he was rusty before ToP.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:33 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:46 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 pm
Goku wasn’t at full power when they measured his battle power. So, 3,000 kili could be just the new “5,000” from his fight against Recoome.
No, non really.
3000 kiri with 1 kiri= 50'000 translates to a power level of 150'000'000, and in vjump ssj3 buu saga Goku is listed at 1'200'000'000, exactly 150'000'000 x8.
So, according to them, ssj buu saga Goku = ssj Goku on namecc, and we don't need a lot to get that this thing is nonsense.
V-Jump doesn’t have a battle power number for SS3. It only has for Super Gogeta (2.5 billion) and for Broli (1.4 billion).
It has for ssj3 Goku too, search better. I'm sure of that
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Soldierofficial » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:52 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:33 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:46 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 pm

No, non really.
3000 kiri with 1 kiri= 50'000 translates to a power level of 150'000'000, and in vjump ssj3 buu saga Goku is listed at 1'200'000'000, exactly 150'000'000 x8.
So, according to them, ssj buu saga Goku = ssj Goku on namecc, and we don't need a lot to get that this thing is nonsense.
V-Jump doesn’t have a battle power number for SS3. It only has for Super Gogeta (2.5 billion) and for Broli (1.4 billion).
It has for ssj3 Goku too, search better. I'm sure of that
That battle power does not exist, there is no official pl for SSJ3 Goku.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:33 pm

As for the discussion involving base Goku, I'd say that him not fainting while Kaioshin did is an indicative of his base eclipsing Kaioshin. It's already kinda obvious when in the manga's events of the RoF movie base Goku states that for now, his base power is enough to deal with final form Freeza (emphasized in the movie as him holding a sizeable advantage), while Gohan and Piccolo stated both were no match for Freeza even when Freeza was on his first form. Goku and Vegeta have just gotten to a new level in their base states post the training with Whis apparently.

Plus, less than 10% SSJB Vegeta is still aplarently close enough to Hit that this latter's timeskip could make a fool of him, whereas Goku in SSJ was already enough to fight almost on par with this same Hit, only losing due to Hit's ability. So if SSJ Goku is already somewhat close to a tenth of Blue's power while Goku upon achieving the SSJG stated such in an inconceivable power, it's made implicit the lower states somehow got wayyy stronger than during the Boo arc or the introduction of Beerus.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:25 am

ahill1 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:33 pm
As for the discussion involving base Goku, I'd say that him not fainting while Kaioshin did is an indicative of his base eclipsing Kaioshin. It's already kinda obvious when in the manga's events of the RoF movie base Goku states that for now, his base power is enough to deal with final form Freeza (emphasized in the movie as him holding a sizeable advantage), while Gohan and Piccolo stated both were no match for Freeza even when Freeza was on his first form. Goku and Vegeta have just gotten to a new level in their base states post the training with Whis apparently.

Plus, less than 10% SSJB Vegeta is still aplarently close enough to Hit that this latter's timeskip could make a fool of him, whereas Goku in SSJ was already enough to fight almost on par with this same Hit, only losing due to Hit's ability. So if SSJ Goku is already somewhat close to a tenth of Blue's power while Goku upon achieving the SSJG stated such in an inconceivable power, it's made implicit the lower states somehow got wayyy stronger than during the Boo arc or the introduction of Beerus.
Probably, in the manga, Goku was using the "full power" ssj that toriyama spoke about in an interview, the ssj that surpasses ssj2 and 3 in power due to a complete mastery of it's power. So, to make sense is like this to me

Goku/vegeta 1
Ssb 5000
Vegeta ssb, drain 400
Goku maxed ssj 500
Hit 600
Goku God 1000
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:26 am

SSJ Goku is still likely below < 10% Blue Vegeta as Beerus singled out the God state as in surpassing Vegeta's blue state. Still close to one another though.

I think Toriyama stated that by using the SSJ to its Full potential they wouldn't make use of the higher non-god states. It's clear AT hasn't gone this route though as Goku and Vegeta still now and then uses their SSJ2 and SSJ3, the latter on Goku's case.

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