Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Alruneia
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:15 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:49 pm
Mireya wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:51 am
<snip>
They start fairly good but I think they get way out of hand by the end. I don't think anyone in Cell saga should have anything near 10 billion that's crazy high
I'm inclined to agree. It's been a few years since I made my own numbers for post-Frieza Dragon Ball, so they're not exactly the best numbers out there, but it was never necessary for me to go above 10 billion until I got pretty far into the Buu arc (Super Saiyan 3 Goku etc.).
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:31 pm

Alruneia wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:15 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:49 pm
Mireya wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:51 am
<snip>
They start fairly good but I think they get way out of hand by the end. I don't think anyone in Cell saga should have anything near 10 billion that's crazy high
I'm inclined to agree. It's been a few years since I made my own numbers for post-Frieza Dragon Ball, so they're not exactly the best numbers out there, but it was never necessary for me to go above 10 billion until I got pretty far into the Buu arc (Super Saiyan 3 Goku etc.).
Agreed. Goku SSJ3 if I high ball him is like 17B and low ball like 8B but still the only character to be placed at like 96B is Buuhan and SSJ Vegito who in my lowball is 500B (Not exactly keep in mind)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:36 am

Well, I don't mind the numbers being very high. It also works with how strong the Saiyans' base states are in the Boo arc.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:04 pm

Mireya wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:36 am
Well, I don't mind the numbers being very high. It also works with how strong the Saiyans' base states are in the Boo arc.
They aren't given many statements. Like Vegeta says he could beat most in base but that is crazy and probably an over exaggeration. Also probably a comment more on how he was the only one really training while everyone was relaxing more except for Piccolo who is SSJ 1 level or even SSJ2. Goku fights Yakon, a creature with a battle power of 40,000,000. However the fight is hard to gauge Goku's power since Yakon goes straight for using the dark as an advantage to easily kill Goku but Goku can sense him and can use instant transmission to teleport to him attacking. So Goku at least could be like a tad below him just more seasoned as a fighter but it's safer to say base Goku is <40,000,000. How much hard to say. At most like 50,000,000 but maybe that's my taste. Personally I would put base Goku anywhere from 24B-45B

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:09 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:04 pm
Mireya wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:36 am
Well, I don't mind the numbers being very high. It also works with how strong the Saiyans' base states are in the Boo arc.
They aren't given many statements. Like Vegeta says he could beat most in base but that is crazy and probably an over exaggeration. Also probably a comment more on how he was the only one really training while everyone was relaxing more except for Piccolo who is SSJ 1 level or even SSJ2. Goku fights Yakon, a creature with a battle power of 40,000,000. However the fight is hard to gauge Goku's power since Yakon goes straight for using the dark as an advantage to easily kill Goku but Goku can sense him and can use instant transmission to teleport to him attacking. So Goku at least could be like a tad below him just more seasoned as a fighter but it's safer to say base Goku is <40,000,000. How much hard to say. At most like 50,000,000 but maybe that's my taste. Personally I would put base Goku anywhere from 24B-45B
I think Vegeta making this statement while 18 was there ought to mean he was at least above her in base. And it makes sense when you look at the kids while in base doing relatively ok against #18. Piccolo it's tough to be considered into Vegeta's statement considering his level post the rosat training, but since he wasn't at the plan, I think he can be excused.

I think one can also make a case about Yakon being comparable to Kaioshin considering Shin feared the beast and unlike with Pui Pui, he recognised him at first glance. If Kaioshin is said to be able to easily dispose of Freeza, shouldn't he fearing an enemy whom base Goku could fight well against mean base Goku is at least well over 100,000,000?

Also, you meant 24M instead of 24B, right? Figures due to your stance.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:39 pm

Mireya wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:09 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:04 pm
Mireya wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:36 am
Well, I don't mind the numbers being very high. It also works with how strong the Saiyans' base states are in the Boo arc.
They aren't given many statements. Like Vegeta says he could beat most in base but that is crazy and probably an over exaggeration. Also probably a comment more on how he was the only one really training while everyone was relaxing more except for Piccolo who is SSJ 1 level or even SSJ2. Goku fights Yakon, a creature with a battle power of 40,000,000. However the fight is hard to gauge Goku's power since Yakon goes straight for using the dark as an advantage to easily kill Goku but Goku can sense him and can use instant transmission to teleport to him attacking. So Goku at least could be like a tad below him just more seasoned as a fighter but it's safer to say base Goku is <40,000,000. How much hard to say. At most like 50,000,000 but maybe that's my taste. Personally I would put base Goku anywhere from 24B-45B
I think Vegeta making this statement while 18 was there ought to mean he was at least above her in base. And it makes sense when you look at the kids while in base doing relatively ok against #18. Piccolo it's tough to be considered into Vegeta's statement considering his level post the rosat training, but since he wasn't at the plan, I think he can be excused.

I think one can also make a case about Yakon being comparable to Kaioshin considering Shin feared the beast and unlike with Pui Pui, he recognised him at first glance. If Kaioshin is said to be able to easily dispose of Freeza, shouldn't he fearing an enemy whom base Goku could fight well against mean base Goku is at least well over 100,000,000?

Also, you meant 24M instead of 24B, right? Figures due to your stance.
yes M not B my bad. Also no Yakon is confirmed to be 40,000,000. I think Kaioshin's fear wasn't about him fighting the creature but the Saiyans. Like in Super when Belmod is worried about Jiren getting kicked by Vegeta it isn't saying Vegeta>Belmod. Also 100% no I can't see a way for base saiyans to be>A18 let alone Frieza. BoG Beerus says Goku in base couldn't beat Frieza. Now I know suppression is a thing but why would Goku be so suppressed there? Also the kids only do decent when their both SSJ which makes sense because Trunks SSJ is stated to be Frieza level

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:26 pm

Mas Swami wrote:yes M not B my bad. Also no Yakon is confirmed to be 40,000,000. I think Kaioshin's fear wasn't about him fighting the creature but the Saiyans. Like in Super when Belmod is worried about Jiren getting kicked by Vegeta it isn't saying Vegeta>Belmod. Also 100% no I can't see a way for base saiyans to be>A18 let alone Frieza. BoG Beerus says Goku in base couldn't beat Frieza. Now I know suppression is a thing but why would Goku be so suppressed there? Also the kids only do decent when their both SSJ which makes sense because Trunks SSJ is stated to be Frieza level
Yakon being at 40,000,000 is doubtful considering they likely estimated Goku's SSJ to be at 150,000,000 at that time and divided his power by 3.75 (Yakon is 800 to Goku's 3000 Kiri) to find Yakon's power, which is a flimsy reasoning. Even if you argue Goku was heavily suppressed there, I really bet they didn't think that the suppressed SSJ Goku was using coincided as his power from Namek, only the thought process was likely that since in both instances he's using SSJ which has a confirmed battle power of 150M, he'd also scale up accordingly when using the form again against Yakon, which is a lousy thought process

As for Kaioshin being worried about the Saiyans specifically, I find that unlikely as he stated he didn't expect to win against Goku were them to fight at the tournament, and also said their chances of preventing Babidi from releasing Boo elevated when the Saiyans joined them, so it's doubtful he was worried about the Saiyans capacity and considering himself to be at a higher level when being worried. In fact, Vegeta's performance against Pui Pui was enough for him to admit he didn't expect that much from the Saiyans, while he had already high expectations to begin with.

When the kids turned into SSJs, they didn't even engage into a physical combat with her, they merely fired a blast estimated by Trunks to be enough to put pressure on her. The physical combat occurred when both kids were in base, yet they could block many of her blows and #18 slamming them into the ground barely had an effect on their shape. In fact, Trunks puts a bigger emphasis on the way they were fighting -- wearing that restrictive costume -- as to why they weren't doing so well -- "we can't win it like this".

As for the BoG's line, I find it not to be in balance with the manga's implications, which is what I'd ultimately consider. It could be also argued that Goku was suppressed as Kaio-sama had just told him to hide. While it's true that once Beerus showed to be aware of Goku there wasn't a need for him to conceal himself anymore, we see that when Goku got to the battlefield both against the Saiyans and the Ginyus, he had a normal battle power of 5000, so that might just be Goku's natural, perceptible power when not exerting himself but also not concealing his powers.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:34 pm

Mireya wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:26 pm
Mas Swami wrote:yes M not B my bad. Also no Yakon is confirmed to be 40,000,000. I think Kaioshin's fear wasn't about him fighting the creature but the Saiyans. Like in Super when Belmod is worried about Jiren getting kicked by Vegeta it isn't saying Vegeta>Belmod. Also 100% no I can't see a way for base saiyans to be>A18 let alone Frieza. BoG Beerus says Goku in base couldn't beat Frieza. Now I know suppression is a thing but why would Goku be so suppressed there? Also the kids only do decent when their both SSJ which makes sense because Trunks SSJ is stated to be Frieza level
Yakon being at 40,000,000 is doubtful considering they likely estimated Goku's SSJ to be at 150,000,000 at that time and divided his power by 3.75 (Yakon is 800 to Goku's 3000 Kiri) to find Yakon's power, which is a flimsy reasoning. Even if you argue Goku was heavily suppressed there, I really bet they didn't think that the suppressed SSJ Goku was using coincided as his power from Namek, only the thought process was likely that since in both instances he's using SSJ which has a confirmed battle power of 150M, he'd also scale up accordingly when using the form again against Yakon, which is a lousy thought process

As for Kaioshin being worried about the Saiyans specifically, I find that unlikely as he stated he didn't expect to win against Goku were them to fight at the tournament, and also said their chances of preventing Babidi from releasing Boo elevated when the Saiyans joined them, so it's doubtful he was worried about the Saiyans capacity and considering himself to be at a higher level when being worried. In fact, Vegeta's performance against Pui Pui was enough for him to admit he didn't expect that much from the Saiyans, while he had already high expectations to begin with.

When the kids turned into SSJs, they didn't even engage into a physical combat with her, they merely fired a blast estimated by Trunks to be enough to put pressure on her. The physical combat occurred when both kids were in base, yet they could block many of her blows and #18 slamming them into the ground barely had an effect on their shape. In fact, Trunks puts a bigger emphasis on the way they were fighting -- wearing that restrictive costume -- as to why they weren't doing so well -- "we can't win it like this".

As for the BoG's line, I find it not to be in balance with the manga's implications, which is what I'd ultimately consider. It could be also argued that Goku was suppressed as Kaio-sama had just told him to hide. While it's true that once Beerus showed to be aware of Goku there wasn't a need for him to conceal himself anymore, we see that when Goku got to the battlefield both against the Saiyans and the Ginyus, he had a normal battle power of 5000, so that might just be Goku's natural, perceptible power when not exerting himself but also not concealing his powers.
Well going off the fact that 1 kiri equals 50,000 battle power Yakon is confirmed to be 40,000,000. Goku was super suppressed in his ssj form against Yakon. My point is Yakon is not a match for the Kaioshin and that there is little evidence to support base Goku>Frieza,Kaioshin,A18. Like when Buu's released Shin performs about as good as SSJ2 Gohan. Now Gohan has not improved much over the years but there is no way base Goku or even SSJ1 Goku is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan. About A18 why would she go all out on Mighty Mask? Krillin tells her to hold back she was probably afraid to kill him and yet trying enough to best them. SSJ Trunks I am pretty sure (however if wrong then my bad) is stated to be equal to Frieza meaning there is no way their base could even match a full power A18

And Trunks is a cocky kid, of course he isn't gonna acknowledge facts such as him or Goten in base stand no chance. Not to mention, what would kid Trunks know about her combat capabilities, he probably looks down on A18 for what she did to his dad(If he found out about it). Trunks acts far tougher than he is

Finally about Kaioshin, Well he has to know Goku beat Frieza and know about all the fights they've had that's why he came to them. So Shin thought Goku would beat him due to his history not off of the power his base emits. Shin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Base Goku by a lot

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:33 am

Mireya wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:26 pm
Mas Swami wrote:yes M not B my bad. Also no Yakon is confirmed to be 40,000,000. I think Kaioshin's fear wasn't about him fighting the creature but the Saiyans. Like in Super when Belmod is worried about Jiren getting kicked by Vegeta it isn't saying Vegeta>Belmod. Also 100% no I can't see a way for base saiyans to be>A18 let alone Frieza. BoG Beerus says Goku in base couldn't beat Frieza. Now I know suppression is a thing but why would Goku be so suppressed there? Also the kids only do decent when their both SSJ which makes sense because Trunks SSJ is stated to be Frieza level
Yakon being at 40,000,000 is doubtful considering they likely estimated Goku's SSJ to be at 150,000,000 at that time and divided his power by 3.75 (Yakon is 800 to Goku's 3000 Kiri) to find Yakon's power, which is a flimsy reasoning. Even if you argue Goku was heavily suppressed there, I really bet they didn't think that the suppressed SSJ Goku was using coincided as his power from Namek, only the thought process was likely that since in both instances he's using SSJ which has a confirmed battle power of 150M, he'd also scale up accordingly when using the form again against Yakon, which is a lousy thought process

As for Kaioshin being worried about the Saiyans specifically, I find that unlikely as he stated he didn't expect to win against Goku were them to fight at the tournament, and also said their chances of preventing Babidi from releasing Boo elevated when the Saiyans joined them, so it's doubtful he was worried about the Saiyans capacity and considering himself to be at a higher level when being worried. In fact, Vegeta's performance against Pui Pui was enough for him to admit he didn't expect that much from the Saiyans, while he had already high expectations to begin with.

When the kids turned into SSJs, they didn't even engage into a physical combat with her, they merely fired a blast estimated by Trunks to be enough to put pressure on her. The physical combat occurred when both kids were in base, yet they could block many of her blows and #18 slamming them into the ground barely had an effect on their shape. In fact, Trunks puts a bigger emphasis on the way they were fighting -- wearing that restrictive costume -- as to why they weren't doing so well -- "we can't win it like this".

As for the BoG's line, I find it not to be in balance with the manga's implications, which is what I'd ultimately consider. It could be also argued that Goku was suppressed as Kaio-sama had just told him to hide. While it's true that once Beerus showed to be aware of Goku there wasn't a need for him to conceal himself anymore, we see that when Goku got to the battlefield both against the Saiyans and the Ginyus, he had a normal battle power of 5000, so that might just be Goku's natural, perceptible power when not exerting himself but also not concealing his powers.
Another thing, it's been a while since I've read the manga but I re-watched the anime and after going SSJ, both Trunks and Goten attack A18 as she dodges and reciprocates. However the ref disqualifies them before the fight could continue. That to me shows how much she was holding back

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:26 am

Mad Swami" wrote:Well going off the fact that 1 kiri equals 50,000 battle power Yakon is confirmed to be 40,000,000. Goku was super suppressed in his ssj form against Yakon. My point is Yakon is not a match for the Kaioshin and that there is little evidence to support base Goku>Frieza,Kaioshin,A18. Like when Buu's released Shin performs about as good as SSJ2 Gohan. Now Gohan has not improved much over the years but there is no way base Goku or even SSJ1 Goku is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan. About A18 why would she go all out on Mighty Mask? Krillin tells her to hold back she was probably afraid to kill him and yet trying enough to best them. SSJ Trunks I am pretty sure (however if wrong then my bad) is stated to be equal to Frieza meaning there is no way their base could even match a full power A18
But again, we don't exactly know if one Kiri equals a 50,000 power level. The reason used by the V-Jump to reach this conclusion is apparently lousy. What do you think it's more likely? That the V-Jump editors thought that Goku's SSJ had a 150M battle power due to that being his BP on Namek, or that the Goku SSJ from the battle against Yakon was ubber suppressed and his power ended up matching that of Namek Goku? I think the 1st hypothesis is much more likely to be the reason used by the magazine to rate Yakon... which we know isn't a strong one. It's not because Goku was using the same transformation he used against Freeza that the BPs of both instances will be the same, which goes without saying.

I'd also like to point out that in the anime Babidi stated Dabura's kiri power exceeds 4000 but wasn't more specific than that, implying Dabura wasn't that much stronger than a 4000 Kiri amount. If Goku were indeed using only a 150M battle power, we know Dabura couldn't be only that much above Goku.

Last but not least, the V-Jump doesn't have a track of being so accurate with its take on things either. To name a few inconsistencies, it says Broly has a ~1B power level with Gogeta SSJ being in the ~2B mark (a little more, but don't remember the exact value), which while their opinion on something that doesn't exist anymore, BPs, is way off. It also says Goku SSJ3 equals Boohan in strength, which we also know to be pretty off.
Mad Swami wrote:And Trunks is a cocky kid, of course he isn't gonna acknowledge facts such as him or Goten in base stand no chance. Not to mention, what would kid Trunks know about her combat capabilities, he probably looks down on A18 for what she did to his dad(If he found out about it). Trunks acts far tougher than he is
Trunks acknowledged that even as SSJs they were at a disadvantage in a melee combat, so his cockyness didn't seem to play a big factor there. He also praises #18's strength when saying she wouldn't die if they control their blast right when firing it at her, so I really don't think it's enough to counter the evidence on his line.

As for #18 been holding back, while Kuririn stated it, she quickly realized Mighty Mask wasn't a normal human. She saw that he packed a powerful punch when he knocked down the other Earthling and noticed later on that they were unusually strong. She also punched-slammed them into the ground in the middle of their exchange -- no earthling can survive that. Not to mention that were she using an amount low enough not to kill her knowledge of what an earthling should look like, how come the kids are having problems with her attacks and can't just swiftly tank her? The fact that they had to block them and can get thrown around feets away from 18's attacks is proof enough that she never held back enough thinking in not killing normal earthlings whose strength at that time shouldn't even reach a double digits power level.
Mad Swami wrote:Finally about Kaioshin, Well he has to know Goku beat Frieza and know about all the fights they've had that's why he came to them. So Shin thought Goku would beat him due to his history not off of the power his base emits. Shin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Base Goku by a lot
Ok, Shin may have thought Goku could defeat him based on his track history of being an amazing fella who has saved Earth many times, but why'd he be surprised by base Vegeta's strength, saying he surpassed all expectations he had to them, if base Vegeta wasn't anywhere near his own strength? Even if Shin's guess was based around a hunch, it's still a guess anyway... and the fact that such guess didn't only concretized but surpassed the estimations he had is very telling to the base Saiyans' strength.
Mad Swami wrote:both Trunks and Goten attack A18 as she dodges and reciprocates. However the ref disqualifies them before the fight could continue. That to me shows how much she was holding back
That's anime filler though. In the manga Trunks fires a suppressed blast at her and then they are disqualified due to her kienzan exposing them, without any hand to hand clash occurring.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:28 pm

Mireya wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:26 am
Mad Swami" wrote:Well going off the fact that 1 kiri equals 50,000 battle power Yakon is confirmed to be 40,000,000. Goku was super suppressed in his ssj form against Yakon. My point is Yakon is not a match for the Kaioshin and that there is little evidence to support base Goku>Frieza,Kaioshin,A18. Like when Buu's released Shin performs about as good as SSJ2 Gohan. Now Gohan has not improved much over the years but there is no way base Goku or even SSJ1 Goku is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan. About A18 why would she go all out on Mighty Mask? Krillin tells her to hold back she was probably afraid to kill him and yet trying enough to best them. SSJ Trunks I am pretty sure (however if wrong then my bad) is stated to be equal to Frieza meaning there is no way their base could even match a full power A18
But again, we don't exactly know if one Kiri equals a 50,000 power level. The reason used by the V-Jump to reach this conclusion is apparently lousy. What do you think it's more likely? That the V-Jump editors thought that Goku's SSJ had a 150M battle power due to that being his BP on Namek, or that the Goku SSJ from the battle against Yakon was ubber suppressed and his power ended up matching that of Namek Goku? I think the 1st hypothesis is much more likely to be the reason used by the magazine to rate Yakon... which we know isn't a strong one. It's not because Goku was using the same transformation he used against Freeza that the BPs of both instances will be the same, which goes without saying.

I'd also like to point out that in the anime Babidi stated Dabura's kiri power exceeds 4000 but wasn't more specific than that, implying Dabura wasn't that much stronger than a 4000 Kiri amount. If Goku were indeed using only a 150M battle power, we know Dabura couldn't be only that much above Goku.

Last but not least, the V-Jump doesn't have a track of being so accurate with its take on things either. To name a few inconsistencies, it says Broly has a ~1B power level with Gogeta SSJ being in the ~2B mark (a little more, but don't remember the exact value), which while their opinion on something that doesn't exist anymore, BPs, is way off. It also says Goku SSJ3 equals Boohan in strength, which we also know to be pretty off.
Mad Swami wrote:And Trunks is a cocky kid, of course he isn't gonna acknowledge facts such as him or Goten in base stand no chance. Not to mention, what would kid Trunks know about her combat capabilities, he probably looks down on A18 for what she did to his dad(If he found out about it). Trunks acts far tougher than he is
Trunks acknowledged that even as SSJs they were at a disadvantage in a melee combat, so his cockyness didn't seem to play a big factor there. He also praises #18's strength when saying she wouldn't die if they control their blast right when firing it at her, so I really don't think it's enough to counter the evidence on his line.

As for #18 been holding back, while Kuririn stated it, she quickly realized Mighty Mask wasn't a normal human. She saw that he packed a powerful punch when he knocked down the other Earthling and noticed later on that they were unusually strong. She also punched-slammed them into the ground in the middle of their exchange -- no earthling can survive that. Not to mention that were she using an amount low enough not to kill her knowledge of what an earthling should look like, how come the kids are having problems with her attacks and can't just swiftly tank her? The fact that they had to block them and can get thrown around feets away from 18's attacks is proof enough that she never held back enough thinking in not killing normal earthlings whose strength at that time shouldn't even reach a double digits power level.
Mad Swami wrote:Finally about Kaioshin, Well he has to know Goku beat Frieza and know about all the fights they've had that's why he came to them. So Shin thought Goku would beat him due to his history not off of the power his base emits. Shin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Base Goku by a lot
Ok, Shin may have thought Goku could defeat him based on his track history of being an amazing fella who has saved Earth many times, but why'd he be surprised by base Vegeta's strength, saying he surpassed all expectations he had to them, if base Vegeta wasn't anywhere near his own strength? Even if Shin's guess was based around a hunch, it's still a guess anyway... and the fact that such guess didn't only concretized but surpassed the estimations he had is very telling to the base Saiyans' strength.
Mad Swami wrote:both Trunks and Goten attack A18 as she dodges and reciprocates. However the ref disqualifies them before the fight could continue. That to me shows how much she was holding back
That's anime filler though. In the manga Trunks fires a suppressed blast at her and then they are disqualified due to her kienzan exposing them, without any hand to hand clash occurring.
About the kiri thing, I think the 150M BP Goku exerts is honestly just a reference of sorts. Also Dabura says "Yakon on the second level? isn't that a bit much?" so I would say Babidi's comment doesn't really matter due to Dabura being comparable to Cell. However I think Dabura being over 4000 krir is in reference to him not really exerting himself, like when he is just around. Finally about A18, she tanks Trunk's blast as it doesn't affect her much

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:48 pm

Mad Swami wrote:About the kiri thing, I think the 150M BP Goku exerts is honestly just a reference of sorts. Also Dabura says "Yakon on the second level? isn't that a bit much?" so I would say Babidi's comment doesn't really matter due to Dabura being comparable to Cell. However I think Dabura being over 4000 krir is in reference to him not really exerting himself, like when he is just around. Finally about A18, she tanks Trunk's blast as it doesn't affect her much
She didn't tank the blast, she dodged it, barely, and the power contained in it filled her eyes with terror.

Also, which comment doesn't matter? Dabura being comparable to Cell doesn't rectify the anime's take on where Dabura would sit in the Kiri's scale imo.

I think one could argue that the V-Jump editors thought that Goku was suppressed when turning a SSJ there and that for whatever reason that suppressed SSJ of his happened to be as strong as his first transformation of SSJ, but I find the logic specified above, that just by the virtue of being a SSJ he has the same official battle power he had when turning into one by the first time, the most likely logic they used to draw that info in which they calculated Yakon's power level, hence I don't take it into account when making lists.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:39 pm

Mireya wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:48 pm
Mad Swami wrote:About the kiri thing, I think the 150M BP Goku exerts is honestly just a reference of sorts. Also Dabura says "Yakon on the second level? isn't that a bit much?" so I would say Babidi's comment doesn't really matter due to Dabura being comparable to Cell. However I think Dabura being over 4000 krir is in reference to him not really exerting himself, like when he is just around. Finally about A18, she tanks Trunk's blast as it doesn't affect her much
She didn't tank the blast, she dodged it, barely, and the power contained in it filled her eyes with terror.

Also, which comment doesn't matter? Dabura being comparable to Cell doesn't rectify the anime's take on where Dabura would sit in the Kiri's scale imo.

I think one could argue that the V-Jump editors thought that Goku was suppressed when turning a SSJ there and that for whatever reason that suppressed SSJ of his happened to be as strong as his first transformation of SSJ, but I find the logic specified above, that just by the virtue of being a SSJ he has the same official battle power he had when turning into one by the first time, the most likely logic they used to draw that info in which they calculated Yakon's power level, hence I don't take it into account when making lists.
I don't know that just seems like ignoring more viable details to fit around more vague details. Saying Saiyans in base ever reached 100M+ is a bit hard for me to believe due to the abundance of evidence to contradict that. And I would Say A18's look is one of surprise less than fear

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ZombieVito
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:42 pm

I think 100 million is the upper limit I would have base Goku when Beerus makes that famous comment in Battle of Gods.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:59 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:42 pm
I think 100 million is the upper limit I would have base Goku when Beerus makes that famous comment in Battle of Gods.
I would say that would be the highest ball someone can really give base Goku IMO

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:28 am

Well, to each on their own, then. I don't feel there's a limit to place the base Saiyans and rather try to place them going off of where I think most implications are.

While I certainly see why many posters have them as below Freeza, due to Beerus' infamous comment, I think one could make a case about Goku being suppressed there as much as they could say #18 was suppressed when fighting the base kids.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:51 pm

DBZ Kakarot has chimed in on the PL thing:
Cell Games Gohan and Goku are at almost 8M, which to me is a little low, but I guess the game lowballs them. Or maybe if I'd leveled up more, we could be talking about higher numbers. All in all, I think the PL they present are pretty decent(not just these I've mentioned), even if I have Cell Games Son family closer to 30M than 10M.

Anyway, back to the show, base Goku and Vegeta in Namek were around 3M at best, I don't see anything implying that in the android saga they went from that to close to 100M. Specially after Namek, when their training was focused on their SS forms. Except for those 3 years prior to the androids where I believe they did exploit their base forms.
The same goes for the Buu arc, they all train as SS, Vegeta, Trunks, Goten, Gohan, even Goku in that filler were he shows off to the other Kaiosama. They don't take their base form that serious anymore, Whis is the one that takes then back to the roots and prohibites them to transform. So, I can't buy their bases surpassing Freeza due to "collateral damage" of their training.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:47 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:51 pm
DBZ Kakarot has chimed in on the PL thing:
Cell Games Gohan and Goku are at almost 8M [...]
Interesting. Do you have a source?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:20 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:47 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:51 pm
DBZ Kakarot has chimed in on the PL thing:
Cell Games Gohan and Goku are at almost 8M [...]
Interesting. Do you have a source?
It's my saved game, I'm not sure if leveling up would make that number much higher or just a little higher. I'm guessing it doesn't vary that much from gamer to gamer, so probably should be taken with a pinch of salt.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:25 pm

Personally I would agree with Cell saga Goku or Buu saga Goku(and Gohan for that matter) being more in the late 20M to early 30M and think Kakarot's power levels are inaccurate. I honestly don't know what purpose they serve due to the fact that if they don't paint a somewhat accurate picture then they are just an odd addition. They have no game play relevancy really so I don't get their inclusion

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