Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Sat May 07, 2016 6:47 am

apex_pretador wrote:Obviously that's ridiculously high. A being who bragged about being strongest in a 10g planet vs the strongest in the universe - the result must be clear. You have him 8x Freeza?

1,000,000,000 is the number I have for buu arc SS goku
He didn't brag. He only thought that it'd give him an advantage against Vegeta because he thought he had never been in anything besides normal gravity since he was assumed to be an Earthling.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sat May 07, 2016 12:07 pm

LightBing wrote:Regarding Mirai Trunks power. I have him barely stronger than when he fought Mecha Freeza, he only had eight months to get stronger.

What I disagree, with basically everybody since I never saw a concurring opinion. Is that Goku(Yardrat) was stronger than Mirai Trunks, I never understood that. I have Trunks much stronger than Goku. Here's why:

- Trunks spent 8 months in the future before returning, no reason to believe he gained that much power without any special training or partners. We know he's decently close to Goku and Vegeta in the Android Arc, since he's usually coupled with them.

- Goku said Trunks was holding back in their clash:
- Trunks said he could fight on pair with the Future Androids, individually.
In the chapter Trunks history, he barely survives an encounter with the Androids. After that, he immediately decides to use the time-machine and ask Goku for help, finally following his mother's will.
That should have been that last time he fought the Androids, so he was on pair with them at the time of Mecha Freeza. Don't forget, Trunks is a careful character.
It would make no sense whatsoever, if he fought the androids during the 8 months he waited for the time-machine to recharge.

Thought's? I don't think my theory has any holes.
Here are my thoughts on this whole thing. It should be noted that neither Goku nor Trunks were giving their all during that little sparring match of theirs, and that skilled fighters can tell when another is holding back, and sometimes by how much. Captain Ginyu is able to give a fairly close guess to Goku's full strength. Karin could tell that Cell was probably stronger than Goku, despite neither one of them showing their full power yet. Kuririn could tell that Cell was way stronger than Vegeta and that Trunks was hiding power. So that coupled with Trunks' glowing complements to Goku tell me that Goku was probably the stronger of the two. It's not concrete and you could take that scene a different way, but this is the way that I (and a lot of other people) take it.

Also, Trunks could've fought the Androids during the eight months of his training, after he had gotten a bit stronger.
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”
This line doesn't quite match up with his later statement where he says that he can kind of fight on par with future Androids. Not entirely sure why he would fight them. Maybe he was trying to save someone, and they picked a fight. Who knows.

Anyway, If you want an explanation why Trunks wasn't completely left in the dust, despite having only eight months to train rather than everyone else's three years, you could say that his mixed heritage let him gain strength at a faster rate than the pure-blooded Saiyans. Anyway, those where my two cents.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Sat May 07, 2016 12:23 pm

Analytic wrote:Future Gohan never reached his father's strength, and Trunks is barely any different from Gohan.

Future Trunks >= Future Gohan

Post-Yardrat Goku > Future Gohan
The only base for that is Future Bulma, who can't sense ki. Even what she said is very flexible. We can't know how much stronger Future Trunks was. Except what I wrote before, where he positions himself very close to an individual Future Android. Which is very much above Future Gohan.

What about all the rest I wrote? If you're disagreeing with me please provide arguments or dispute my own. Just stating things as facts makes it hard to take you seriously.

Edit (Answering to DanielSSJ)

Trunks does offer wide compliments to Goku but it goes both ways. Trunks knows Goku is a very recent SSJ taking into account the only other SSJ he knew, he has every reason to be amazed. Still, there's no clear way to determine who's stronger from that. The compliments argument is very fair.

Regarding your second point, it's not impossible Trunks fought them again in the 8 months he had. But it's very and I mean very unlikely. If one read Trunks Story, we can see why. The character grows, he goes from reckless to what we see in the Android Arc. Remember he didn't want to face the Androids without Goku, even after witnessing Vegeta's immense power. Which going by what he said, should have been enough to defeat the Future Androids, individually at least. Trunks decides to follow his mother's plan, risking being killed wouldn't fit with the narrative.

Regarding that quote and talking about it out of Universe. There might have been some retconning, I say this because we know Trunks mentions his Androids as being #19 and #20, which is of course a plot hole. Trunks might originally been intended to be weaker than Goku, but Mr.Toriyama decided to change it later like with the rest.
Just a theory...

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Sat May 07, 2016 3:13 pm

LightBing wrote:The only base for that is Future Bulma, who can't sense ki.
Do you not know what exposition is?
LightBing wrote:Even what she said is very flexible. We can't know how much stronger Future Trunks was.
My computer is currently broken, so I can't be bothered to search through the Strength Checker on my phone (no Command + F), but if I recall correctly, Bulma says Trunks is "not too different" from Gohan. I don't see how that could possibly be construed to "a good deal stronger".
LightBing wrote:Except what I wrote before, where he positions himself very close to an individual Future Android. Which is very much above Future Gohan.
When Trunks is in the hospital recovering from his fight with the Androids, he tells Bulma that she was right and that the gap between the Androids and himself is still huge. How does he position himself very close?
LightBing wrote:What about all the rest I wrote? If you're disagreeing with me please provide arguments or dispute my own.
I did provide an argument. You just dismissed it by saying "Bulma has no clue what she's talking about."
LightBing wrote:Just stating things as facts makes it hard to take you seriously.
I wasn't aware that someone who uses statements directly from the manga is hard to take seriously. Perhaps I should use statements from my personal fan fiction? Will that be easier for you to take seriously?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Sat May 07, 2016 4:21 pm

Analytic making a comparison of your post to DanielSSJ one, you basically dismissed me. You said A is B and that's it. Ignoring everything I wrote, which has statements that oppose what you said. Which I didn't dismiss, I disputed. Maybe this is me being picky with words but they aren't the same thing.
That's my dispute with your post, what you wrote is in the manga and should be added to the conversation. It isn't however final, like my post isn't. You post felt very much like a shot down. That didn't try to contribute to a conversation or show your side of it, just end it right there.

Reading some parts of your answer, makes me think you didn't even read my initial post. Like this one:
Analytic wrote:When Trunks is in the hospital recovering from his fight with the Androids, he tells Bulma that she was right and that the gap between the Androids and himself is still huge. How does he position himself very close?
He doesn't here but he does in the Android Arc, I have the statement in my initial post.

Regarding the part of the Bulma quote, the words are not amazingly different, which in the context to me, denotes a big/decent power gain but not enough to matter. Here's the quote:

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by xmysticgohanx » Tue May 10, 2016 4:59 pm

Analytic wrote:Did you mean high? I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this site besides ahill1 try to argue for Pocus being that strong.
I have Puipui > non Majin Puipui > King Cold

To Bobbidi, King Cold would be the 2nd strongest in the universe with Puipui being first

I have 70% Freeza >= Cold because 70% Freeza would definitely ensure victory vs SSJ Goku like Mecha Freeza said. Just look at 70% Freeza's feat vs Goku. If he's able to surprise Goku like that, Cold would be a great factor in a 2v1. A lot of people seem to have Cold > 70% Freeza but I don't think it is necessary.

Anyway that means I have: Puipui > non Majin Puipui >= 70% Freeza >= Cold. Cold being at 80 million can work (70% Freeza is at 84 million). Idk where I would have Puipui's power at though. Maybe 120 million so it could illustrate how I think a fight between Boo arc base Vegeta and Freeza would go.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Berserker1921 » Thu May 12, 2016 5:40 pm

I have been thinking about this for a while since super started and they introduced Zeno. I think the power scaling has changed since toriyamas last comments about the gods power. Instead of 1-15. I think the scale has increased to 1-100:

100 being Zeno as of now.

Beerus: 20
Champa: 19.8
Whis: 25
Vados: 25.2

Goku ssjgod (bog): 6
Ssj blue (RoF): 8
Ssj blue (U6) : 8.5
Ssj blue Kaioken x 10: 16.5
Ssj blue vegeta (u6): 8.5
Hit: 16 (after powering up)


Personally this is how I rationalize everything that we have seen. Personally this is my head cannon and makes everything make a little more sense lol.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by VegetaSSJBlue » Thu May 12, 2016 6:58 pm

Berserker1921 wrote:
Ssj blue (U6) : 8.5
Ssj blue Kaioken x 10: 16.5.
8.5 × 10: 85 :roll:

Beerus: 100
Champa: 95
Whis: 150
Vados: 155
Zeno: 500

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Blackstripe » Thu May 12, 2016 11:48 pm

I think Zen'o is completely off the scales, myself. Beerus made it sound like it wouldn't even be difficult for him to wipe out all 12 universes.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ahill1 » Fri May 13, 2016 8:02 pm

Zeno's introduction ruined the history imo. It ended with Whis status.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri May 13, 2016 8:07 pm

ahill1 wrote:Zeno's introduction ruined the history imo. It ended with Whis status.
No, it hasn't. All we were told prior to the introduction of the Omni King is that Whis is Beerus' martial arts teacher and servant and is stronger than him. That's it. Nothing has really changed now that Zeno is a thing.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Fri May 13, 2016 10:26 pm

Berserker1921 wrote:I have been thinking about this for a while since super started and they introduced Zeno. I think the power scaling has changed since toriyamas last comments about the gods power. Instead of 1-15. I think the scale has increased to 1-100:

100 being Zeno as of now.

Beerus: 20
Champa: 19.8
Whis: 25
Vados: 25.2

Goku ssjgod (bog): 6
Ssj blue (RoF): 8
Ssj blue (U6) : 8.5
Ssj blue Kaioken x 10: 16.5
Ssj blue vegeta (u6): 8.5
Hit: 16 (after powering up)


Personally this is how I rationalize everything that we have seen. Personally this is my head cannon and makes everything make a little more sense lol.

Beerus can't handle a universal blast though. Old kai and whis said that beerus would be destroyed with the earth, and so would whis. Zeno can destroy 12 so zeno=12x whis I believe, I doubt he can survive the 12 unvierses dieing, but cant cause it just like beerus can dish out but not take it.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Fri May 13, 2016 10:31 pm

VegetaSSJBlue wrote:
Berserker1921 wrote:
Ssj blue (U6) : 8.5
Ssj blue Kaioken x 10: 16.5.
8.5 × 10: 85 :roll:

Beerus: 100
Champa: 95
Whis: 150
Vados: 155
Zeno: 500

goku god-60
goku blue-80
u6 blue goku-90

beerus-100

rage vegeta-9

whis-150

blue goku kaioken x10- 900

hit-no fucking clue but above whis that's for sure.

vados-around 150.

champa-6 maybe.

blue vegeta-9.2

why didn't goku and hit just blah blah blah? Bad writing. don't throw out the scaling because you don't like it. Remember rage vegeta pushed beerus to 10% (meaning he's at 9%)...so since god goku>rage vegeta blue goku at 10x would HAVE TO BE above beerus. its common sense. do the math. I like how people are trying to even change the kaioken and its meaning..w.tf XD
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Khin » Fri May 13, 2016 10:40 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:[XXXXXXXXX Post]
  • Beerus tanked Vegeta's Galic Cannon without any damage whatsoever. So putting Vegeta at 9% Beerus is just flat out wrong imo.
  • It was heavily implied in episode 29 that Champa is stronger than Goku and Vegeta.
  • Goku admitted inferiority to Monaka, who he only heard to be the strongest guy that Beerus fought. And was hyped in the manga and Toriyama to be able to give Beerus a hard time.
  • Vados said that Champa can punish Hit and Kaiokenx10 Goku at any time. So Goku and Hit <<< Champa.
  • Champa told Hit to use Tokitaboshi or whatever and Hit just stands there looking like he's frozen in fear.
  • Surpassing Beerus or Whis is a big feat, yet no one made a comment about it.
  • Toriyama said he has no plans for Goku to surpass Beerus and Whis.
Last edited by Khin on Fri May 13, 2016 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by VegetaSSJBlue » Fri May 13, 2016 10:57 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
beerus-100

whis-150

blue goku kaioken x10- 900
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Bills >Champa > Goku SSB Kaioken x10 and Hit

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Sat May 14, 2016 1:16 pm

LightBing wrote:Analytic making a comparison of your post to DanielSSJ one, you basically dismissed me.
I did not dismiss you. If that's the impression you got from my post, then I will clarify by assuring you that that was not the intent of my post. I have not had my computer for a few weeks now, and I do not like making long posts on my phone, especially since I can't search through the strength checker on it since I can't use Command + F.
LightBing wrote:You said A is B and that's it. Ignoring everything I wrote, which has statements that oppose what you said. Which I didn't dismiss, I disputed. Maybe this is me being picky with words but they aren't the same thing.
It's not being picky with words. You're right that they're not the same thing, but I did not find just claiming a character who was never contradicted is unreliable as a valid argument, which is why I did not feel that my argument was disputed.
LightBing wrote:He doesn't here but he does in the Android Arc, I have the statement in my initial post.
Your argument is based on the assumption that Trunks' power didn't change, which, is a valid interpretation, but doesn't actually have any backing to make it a fact.

To me, Trunks going from saying that the gap between them and him is huge to saying that he could fight them fairly well implies that he powered up significantly. I also believe that Piccolo surpassed Trunks' power from three years back, and Trunks is stated to be stronger than Piccolo in the Android arc.
LightBing wrote:Regarding the part of the Bulma quote, the words are not amazingly different, which in the context to me, denotes a big/decent power gain but not enough to matter.
To me it seems to imply a small difference. I suppose we just have different interpretations of the quote.

Just want to add that Trunks also said that Goku was even better than he expected, which would mean: Trunks >> Goku (Yardrat) > Goku (expected) > Gohan. Do you think that could still be considered "not amazingly different"?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Sat May 14, 2016 3:11 pm

Khin wrote:
LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:[XXXXXXXXX Post]
  • Beerus tanked Vegeta's Galic Cannon without any damage whatsoever. So putting Vegeta at 9% Beerus is just flat out wrong imo.
  • It was heavily implied in episode 29 that Champa is stronger than Goku and Vegeta.
  • Goku admitted inferiority to Monaka, who he only heard to be the strongest guy that Beerus fought. And was hyped in the manga and Toriyama to be able to give Beerus a hard time.
  • Vados said that Champa can punish Hit and Kaiokenx10 Goku at any time. So Goku and Hit <<< Champa.
  • Champa told Hit to use Tokitaboshi or whatever and Hit just stands there looking like he's frozen in fear.
  • Surpassing Beerus or Whis is a big feat, yet no one made a comment about it.
  • Toriyama said he has no plans for Goku to surpass Beerus and Whis.

1. This is dragonball. Vegeta had a power gap of 2k over dodoria and 1 shotted him (24k vs 22k) If beerus didn't need 10% he wouldn't since they said its been a while since he had to go that far and was I'm pressed by what vegeta could do despite getting bored quick.

2. I disagree, they were in weighted suits, it's later shown he underestimated them greatly because what he saw. He thought that was their REAL speed XD

3. because goku<beerus that's why. but with kaioken he's stronger.

4. no she didn't. you mustve got bad subs. He was planning o ndestorying hit though, who mind you was tired and low on energy, goku wasn't about to let that happen though believe me. zeno ruined the moment.

5.yet he kept ignoring him because he knew that he was no longer a huge threat, and also, fear? I didn't see fear at any moment from hit.

6. whis said it was scary...kind of a mentioning. also its not really surpassing if it's temporary. That's like saying cell games goku>gohan ssj2 because of kaioken, the improvement over gohan would be temporary and not really make him stronger, just be better for a little bit.

7. and he didn't. all he did was make goku become better then them for 1 part of a fight. if goku fight whis he could still be 1 shotted before he goes even blue. goku didn't become stronger, he just had a technique that's able to beat them. it's kind of like how goku was weaker then cell but warp Kamehameha can make him win.

BTW I like how you were countering with points. I normally don't see that in super's fanbase. it's normally just "no it's this faggot" and such. Nice change of pace man :)
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Khin » Sat May 14, 2016 11:36 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:1. This is dragonball. Vegeta had a power gap of 2k over dodoria and 1 shotted him (24k vs 22k) If beerus didn't need 10% he wouldn't since they said its been a while since he had to go that far and was I'm pressed by what vegeta could do despite getting bored quick.

2. I disagree, they were in weighted suits, it's later shown he underestimated them greatly because what he saw. He thought that was their REAL speed XD

3. because goku<beerus that's why. but with kaioken he's stronger.

4. no she didn't. you mustve got bad subs. He was planning o ndestorying hit though, who mind you was tired and low on energy, goku wasn't about to let that happen though believe me. zeno ruined the moment.

5.yet he kept ignoring him because he knew that he was no longer a huge threat, and also, fear? I didn't see fear at any moment from hit.

6. whis said it was scary...kind of a mentioning. also its not really surpassing if it's temporary. That's like saying cell games goku>gohan ssj2 because of kaioken, the improvement over gohan would be temporary and not really make him stronger, just be better for a little bit.

7. and he didn't. all he did was make goku become better then them for 1 part of a fight. if goku fight whis he could still be 1 shotted before he goes even blue. goku didn't become stronger, he just had a technique that's able to beat them. it's kind of like how goku was weaker then cell but warp Kamehameha can make him win.
1. Except Dodoria was off guard when Vegeta killed him. Show me an example where a guy tanked an attack with a mere 11% gap without any damage and scratch.
2. That's not what was implied, Vegeta said he will surpass Beerus,Whis,Champa and Vados.
3. No he's not.
4. I don't watch bad fansub. If you don't believe it, go check it with a reliable fansub.
5. Champa insisted Hit to attack, yet Hit did nothing and looks like he's scared.
6-7. By using that logic. GInyu is stronger than Goku when they fought because Goku used Kaio-ken to surpass him. Even if Goku only surpassed them in raw power, its still a big feat, yet no one made a comment about it.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Noah » Sun May 15, 2016 11:15 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
ahill1 wrote:Zeno's introduction ruined the history imo. It ended with Whis status.
No, it hasn't. All we were told prior to the introduction of the Omni King is that Whis is Beerus' martial arts teacher and servant and is stronger than him. That's it. Nothing has really changed now that Zeno is a thing.
No, he's right! Why introduce the ruler and possibly creator of everything so soon? I doubt we'll have a villain or something that surpass him and thus creating a tense conflict, I wish Zeno was just a well respected king but not that powerful as he was introduced.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun May 15, 2016 3:24 pm

Analytic wrote:Snip
I guess there was a misunderstanding, happy that it's cleared up.

I find Bulma unreliable because she can't sense ki, the manga always presents those without the ability as doubtful, mostly incompetent. We just have to look at Freeza's army, many seasonable fighters with ki control themselves, who had no idea how strong someone was without a scouter.

If I said Trunks might not have powered significantly, I would be an hypocrite this is Dragon Ball after all. But that isn't my argument. I believe the last time Trunks fought the Androids was right before going into the past, like we saw in Trunks Story. Which would make him on par with an individual future Android when he met Goku.
I say this because the way Trunks Story developed, him fighting the Androids again would be contradictory. He was a stubborn kid, only at the end after barely surviving the Androids does he decide to hear his mother and place his faith into Goku.
Why would he risk death in those 8 months? It makes no sense. This is highlighted in the Android Arc by his very careful nature, he doesn't take any risks while facing the Androids. Always wanting to wait for Goku.

We don't actually know Trunks expectations of Goku, it doesn't have to be related to himself or Gohan's power. I actually think it's related to Freeza, the measuring tool of that mini-arc. It's very much in the air.

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