MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 3/4/24!)

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by coola » Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:32 am

I was curious if you gonna give anime arcs score too, and i mostly agree on them :) Once again, it is pretty impressive it took anime staff that long to finally get downgrade in animation/story with Freeza Saga. Out of curiosity, how would you rank Anoyo-Ichi Budokai and Garlic Jr. if you count them as separate arcs?
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:01 pm

It's been one hell of a ride. Thank you for doing this analysis Gaffer Tape, it really helped to understand the series as a whole.

And apparently next month - STEP INTO THE GRAND TOUR! (GRAND TOUR GRAND TOUR) Dissection!

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by nineko » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:50 pm

I wonder if they picked GT over Super only because GT are their initials. I thought their name was Lance, though, not Gaffer Tape.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by Scsigs » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:23 pm

nineko wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:50 pm I wonder if they picked GT over Super only because GT are their initials. I thought their name was Lance, though, not Gaffer Tape.
Gaffer Tape is just Lance's username on here. Lance is his real name & MistareFusion is his username everywhere else. So it's just a coincidence.

If I got pronouns wrong, Lance, let me know.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by Scsigs » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:50 pm

Watching the video, something I wanted to add to the discussion of Fusion voices in the series.

While in the Japanese version, it's pretty straight-forward, in the English dubs, it's not in some places.
FUNimation followed Toei's example by having Trunks & Goten's voices overlap with Gotenks, then the same with Vegetto, the same with Gogeta. In this, they had the brilliant idea to have the VA whose character the fusion had the dominant personality of record the lines first, then had the other VA record the lines matching their performance, which I don't think the Japanese did until years later when I listened to clips of that audio. Meaning that Chris Sabat recorded the Vegetto lines first, then Sean Schemmel matched him in terms of line delivery, then the opposite for Gogeta. One thing I noticed that I think is only in the Z dub is that when Supreme Kai/Kaioshin & Kibito fuse, at least initially, they had Kent Williams make his voice a bit gruffer to match Kibito's VA's more deep & gruff voice for him. Years later in Kai: The Final Chapters & Super, plus the subsequent video games, due to how Sabat evolved his Vegeta voice, Schemmel began changing his approach slightly to how he matched Sabat's delivery, with him imitating the more uppercrust accent Sabat gives Vegeta nowadays, which YMMV on if he should be doing that, but it was the first thing I noticed when I watched the Blu-Rays of TFC & I thought it interesting.

In the Ocean dub, they had a 3rd voice actress voice Gotenks separate from the 2 for Goten & Trunks, with a vocal effect placed over her voice to simulate 2 voices overlapping. However, with Vegetto they just had Brian Drummond do an impersonation of Kirby Morrow's Goku voice. No idea why they did that, but it's an interesting choice.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by Noah » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:43 am

Can't say I'm not anxious for your GT dissection, I remember asking years ago if you would ever go to that route and you didn't know yet cause you didn't get there yet. Really interested to see your thoughts on the good, the bad and the ugly in this whole 64 episodes, also Path to the Power and that Goku Jr. Special.

About your Boo arc TV review:

- Yeah, it's not a secret from me that I loved the streched Saiyaman adventures, Toei did much better than Toriyama on that.

- I imagined you would not like their extend of the Saiyan rematch, also I expected you to note that animators not knowing yet the differences about Super Saiyan 1 and 2 tend to mistake Goku hairstyle in filler, specially in this fight.

- Wow, I didn't notice the last time I watched this arc how stupid was for Boo and Satan do a lot of things after the puppy scene, just for the bandit go there and shoot him, it felt so misplaced. Also never thought how filler had improved Krillin confronting Boo knowing he would be dead, but the thing about the manga is that Goku look to their friends in horror as they were being slaughtered, don't know really if his reaction matches with the anime just having Boo to turning everybody into candy and eating them.

- You said ZENKAI (as a near death power boost) was something from the western fan base. While that could be the thing,
Dragon Ball Legends, a 2018 mobile game developed by Bandai Namco Entertainment and Dimps has a feature called
"Zenkai Awakening" where you can boost stats of an old character, making them stronger again to be revelant in the gameplay (or not). So yeah, I don't think an official game would adress something close to an fan theory term if had just come from the western.

- About DBZ ending and how it compares to the manga: I agree 100% with you, it makes things worse. Goku looks like a jerk for leaving his family again, it doesn't make sense plotwise nor powerwise for Goten to defeat Boo as revealed in GT (and could be pretty much the case in actual canon), Satan uses Boo to wipe all participants for them to meet at the finals and there Boo pretend to be defeated by him so his"Champion" status remain untouchable.
The only think I like about this is that we don't have Vegeta "I will defeat you Kakarot" at the end, also I didn't know GT was about to begin the week after this episode in Japan, wow... Toei was sure to keep the DB train active.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by MisteryOne » Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:20 pm

Can't wait for the GT review. I saw the thread on twitter where you briefly gave your thoughts on some episodes, and I really need to hear the full version. Plus, you always give such interesting hindsights into the making and structure of each arc.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:17 am

MisteryOne wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:20 pm Can't wait for the GT review. I saw the thread on twitter where you briefly gave your thoughts on some episodes, and I really need to hear the full version. Plus, you always give such interesting hindsights into the making and structure of each arc.
In that case I hope you're happy because the wait is over!

What Is GT? - Dragon Ball Dissection

Before I even get into the episodes proper, I felt a little context was necessary, some background information. So I hope you like concept art and brief discussions of... sigh... canonicity. It's a lot of fun! Hope you like it!
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

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Current Episode: A Hero's Clone - Dragon Ball Dissection: Goku's Side Story! Siu Xing Qiu is a Testament to Courage

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 11/7/22!)

Post by KeKeKe » Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:02 pm

I have to say that following your Dragon Ball Dissection videos over these past few years has been an absolutely amazing experience! I'm not a follower from the beginning because I didn't know your channel back in 2012, but one day I discovered it by chance while searching YouTube for something related to the Red Ribbon Army, which is also my favorite arc in all of Dragon Ball for its well-balanced action-adventure, in addition to the frequent change of setting and characters as Goku travels through various areas of the world in search of the Dragon Balls. That's how I happened to find the videos in which you dissect that arc and I became curious enough to visit your channel. And I'm really glad I did, because when I found out that you had a series of videos discussing all the Dragon Ball arcs since the very beginning, I decided that, being a fan for many years, I really couldn't avoid watching all the videos since the introductory one. Actually, at that time I ended up not watching immediately the videos of the Red Ribbon Army arc that I had found, because I ended up choosing to save them for later and to watch all the Dragon Ball Dissection videos in chronological order.

If I remember correctly, the first time I visited your channel, your most recent video in the series was "Goku Passes the Torch", the 15th part of the Cell arc, which I only watched much later. So, we were in the middle of 2019, which means I've been closely following your YouTube channel for almost three and a half years. I don't usually follow many YouTubers who talk about Dragon Ball because I think most of them address the series somewhat superficially and they often repeat typical opinions that everyone has known since at least the early 21st century. However, you are special in that regard because you cover the series in a much more in-depth and unconventional way, coherently justifying all your perspectives without just spewing the same deep hatred as many other fans. On the contrary, you treat Dragon Ball with the utmost respect it deserves and I never got bored while watching any of your videos, even when sometimes (though certainly not too often) I disagreed with something you said. Perhaps your emotion and passion while narrating the videos, with some irony added in every now and then, was another aspect that always captivated me. After all, the prosodic aspects of a speech are never irrelevant and I, as a PhD student in Linguistics, notice and value that!

If I had to choose a video from Dragon Ball Dissection that best illustrates that passion of yours for this manga and anime, surely the most perfect example of such would be the 19th part of the Majin Boo arc, "Dragon Ball's Greatest Friendship". Without a doubt, I have to absolutely agree that those moments in the series dedicated to the relationship built between Mr. Satan and Fat Boo constitute one of Dragon Ball's highlights narratively and emotionally, and through that video you made me feel the same strong emotions that you certainly experienced yourself while creating and narrating it. The fact that you mention the 180-degree shift between the moment, at the beginning of the video, when Boo laughs at the misfortune, the death and the suffering of others with immense detachment and the moment, at the end of the same video, when he dramatically experiences those same feelings after the evil sniper shoots his adorable new dog friend is something that feels like a punch in the stomach (the variations in the intonation of your voice also accompany this change of mood) that has remained engraved in my memory due to the intensity of the situation, which, even being fictional, is felt as if it were part of real life (and, unfortunately, it really is something that occasionally happens in this increasingly crazy and violent world)!

Since then, I kept following Dragon Ball Dissection until the very end of the Majin Boo arc, without losing interest nor leaving aside any episode, be it from the manga, the anime or the movies. I could also share many other specific instances where I agree with your analysis, or talk about how much your videos helped to somewhat mitigate the dark quarantine period due to the pandemic, or even mention the happiness and excitement of having five new videos in December every year (as I'm not even a big Christmas enthusiast, I could almost say that watching five episodes of Dragon Ball Dissection in December is pretty much the highlight of that month for me), but that would turn this already lengthy comment into something even longer, so I will leave that, perhaps, for another occasion. On a final note, I sincerely congratulate you for continuing to dedicate yourself to this noble cause for over a decade, for which I am truly grateful, and I hope you will never stop doing this as long as there is Dragon Ball content to address.

It would be very interesting, later on, if you also discussed Dragon Ball Super and the massive differences between the manga and the anime, because there would certainly be a lot to say (I'm highly critical of that series in many aspects, but I also recognize several positive elements that, in my opinion, would be worthy of one of your reviews), but, for now, I'm really looking forward to the beginning of your dissecting journey of Dragon Ball GT, a series that I have always considered very underrated and for which I have immense affection and nostalgia, especially during those initial episodes of the quest for the Black Star Dragon Balls across the universe, which are hated by almost all fans but that I have always loved for reminding me of the early days of the manga and anime, when the series focused much more on adventure and exploration of different and creative locations than on endless battles set always on the same generic rocky plain. I know the first episode of GT's dissection is already out today but I haven't had a chance to watch it yet, though I certainly will as soon as I can with the same passion and enthusiasm as always! Cheers and keep up the great work, for which the true fans will always be very grateful! :clap:

And now enough of me talking, for after all the person who dissects here is not me but you, and I certainly have no intention of taking your place! :lol:

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by MisteryOne » Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:59 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:17 am
MisteryOne wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:20 pm Can't wait for the GT review. I saw the thread on twitter where you briefly gave your thoughts on some episodes, and I really need to hear the full version. Plus, you always give such interesting hindsights into the making and structure of each arc.
In that case I hope you're happy because the wait is over!

What Is GT? - Dragon Ball Dissection

Before I even get into the episodes proper, I felt a little context was necessary, some background information. So I hope you like concept art and brief discussions of... sigh... canonicity. It's a lot of fun! Hope you like it!
As expected, it's a wonderful first entry! I will put some of my thoughts on a spoiler tab, just in case people are not interested in a wall of text formed by my ramblings on the whole canocity thing.
Aaand after all of that being said...Yeah, early GT *definetly* is hurt a lot by Toriyama not being involved. I would say it's even more directionless than his DB work usually is and that's saying a lot. If I could, I would actually like to rewatch it as your review goes on, as I did reading several chapters during your review of the manga. But...honestly I don't think I have enough motivation to do so

Sorry for these ramblings, I know they don't actually add anything to the discussion. Just wanted to share my two cents I suppose. Also in a barely related side-note, your Zyurangers video have managed to finally drag me into the two franchises, which I have never been a fan of.

Looking forward for more, also I really like the new logo!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 11/7/22!)

Post by jcogginsa » Mon Nov 07, 2022 4:55 pm

Excellent start.

As for why Baby gets plit into two arcs, I imagine that's an artifact of the English release, which skipped over much of the earlier episodes to get to Baby quicker, then went back an aired them as "Lost episodes". So many American fans got used to treating them as an entirely seperate thing from the Baby story.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by Scsigs » Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:13 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:17 am In that case I hope you're happy because the wait is over!

What Is GT? - Dragon Ball Dissection

Before I even get into the episodes proper, I felt a little context was necessary, some background information. So I hope you like concept art and brief discussions of... sigh... canonicity. It's a lot of fun! Hope you like it!
I personally have a complicated relationship with GT. I like the artstyle, a lot of the pacing, & ideas present in it. However, the stories are often underwhelming, the wrap-ups can be anti-climactic or fast, & the action isn't that good. They also didn't capitalize on certain ideas that would seem obvious to other people. I don't get it.

Whether or not this show is "canon" to the other stuff doesn't matter to me when it comes to reviewing the material. It's not like most of the Z movies, which have continuity problems so big that make them unable to take place in the main timeline we follow in the manga or anime. However, it not being in proper continuity does help with taking it in. I think 1 of the main reasons for GT's mixed to negative reception & legacy for so long was because of the fact that it was the only new material from any of the people or companies officially working on DB produced for a while, whereas no one gets upset at most of the movies because they weren't. The movies were made to be 50-minute elseworlds-type tales that you can watch, have fun with them, then discard them because they don't matter much. You never had to deal with the movies being the be all, end all of the franchise. A lot of fans, especially the ones who hate GT, had to deal with that for the longest time. Then we got the 2008 special, then the Battle of Gods movie & eventually Super. I think it really softens the way GT comes off over time.

I think it also got a negative reception because of how DB was introduced to the West, with Z first, then DB acting as a prequel to it with GT being touted as the next entry in the franchise & timeline. It's also why FUNimation skipped over the first 15 episodes when they dubbed & broadcast GT on TV. They knew the shift was gonna be jarring for a lot of people, so they skipped forward to where the show picked up & made a recap episode. With Super trying to better blend the comedy, action, & stuff, it was much less jarring than what happened with GT. But here we are 20+ years after GT came out & its impact on the franchise & fanbase has changed thanks to Super so people can just relax on it. The writers honestly tried, it's just that the franchise was tired & needed a break, which it got afterwards. I honestly think if GT came out a few years after Z ended rather than the week after, it could've been a lot better & probably better-received at the time.

I'll say, though, that the content in GT can make for good video game stuff. I like when the characters are included & when games like Xenoverse include levels based on the show. I don't think GT's a complete waste of time, it's just not that good.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 11/7/22!)

Post by nineko » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:12 pm

When you changed the text from "what is GT" to "why is GT" I totally expected you to pull a picture of Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 11/7/22!)

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:37 am

For myself, I definitely detested GT growing up. I mainly disliked how 9/10 of every fight Goku was A) holding back or B) wasting time with goofy antics. I hated filler! And I had other issues too, practically the same stuff as everyone else.

It wasn't until years upon years later, watching Super, did I realize that maybe GT isn't as awful as I thought. And I started watching GT analysis videos, and my thoughts changed, though I haven't rewatched the series. I'm going into this fully malleable, and ready to form new opinions. Is GT better than Super? Is GT any good period? I want to find out.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 11/7/22!)

Post by Scsigs » Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:38 pm

FoolsGil wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:37 am For myself, I definitely detested GT growing up. I mainly disliked how 9/10 of every fight Goku was A) holding back or B) wasting time with goofy antics. I hated filler! And I had other issues too, practically the same stuff as everyone else.

It wasn't until years upon years later, watching Super, did I realize that maybe GT isn't as awful as I thought. And I started watching GT analysis videos, and my thoughts changed, though I haven't rewatched the series. I'm going into this fully malleable, and ready to form new opinions. Is GT better than Super? Is GT any good period? I want to find out.
IMO, GT isn't better than Super. Both shows have positives & negatives, but I enjoyed Super more, even if Goku's written really badly most of the time.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 11/7/22!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:48 pm

KeKeKe wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:02 pm And now enough of me talking, for after all the person who dissects here is not me but you, and I certainly have no intention of taking your place! :lol:
Hey, I certainly don't mind my series being dissected. I try to take feedback to heart. And I really appreciate all the nice things you said. It means a lot to me, and I'm glad I'm managing to entertain you!
MisteryOne wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:59 pm Looking forward for more, also I really like the new logo!
Thank you! I hope all these changes and new stories to dissect go over well with people. As for canon, I can't say I'm never guilty of this myself, but I know for a lot of people it's an easy form of validating their arguments without having to actually back them up. If they like something, the perception that it's more real than something else allows them the fallacy of appealing to authority.
jcogginsa wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 4:55 pm As for why Baby gets plit into two arcs, I imagine that's an artifact of the English release, which skipped over much of the earlier episodes to get to Baby quicker, then went back an aired them as "Lost episodes". So many American fans got used to treating them as an entirely seperate thing from the Baby story.
I mean, I do think that has something to do with it, but I don't think it's the only reason. I'm pretty sure Japanese sources split them up too. Kanzenshuu splits them up, and they're as un-influenced by the dub as anybody! It's just like the "GT takes place 10 years after" argument. Yeah, FUNimation has something to do with it, but I'd heard that as a kid too, and that was years before FUNimation even dubbed it!
Scsigs wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:13 pm The movies were made to be 50-minute elseworlds-type tales that you can watch, have fun with them, then discard them because they don't matter much. You never had to deal with the movies being the be all, end all of the franchise.
Yeah, that's how I feel about the movies too. Ironically, just how out of continuity they are makes them easier to accept. You know, until the animated series start incorporating stuff from them, at which point my brain explodes! ;-)
nineko wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:12 pm When you changed the text from "what is GT" to "why is GT" I totally expected you to pull a picture of Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy.
Sadly, I've never seen it, so it's not a reference I would have been privy to make. =P
FoolsGil wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:37 am It wasn't until years upon years later, watching Super, did I realize that maybe GT isn't as awful as I thought. And I started watching GT analysis videos, and my thoughts changed, though I haven't rewatched the series. I'm going into this fully malleable, and ready to form new opinions. Is GT better than Super? Is GT any good period? I want to find out.
I'm very interested to see if your opinions change at all!
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Current Episode: A Hero's Clone - Dragon Ball Dissection: Goku's Side Story! Siu Xing Qiu is a Testament to Courage

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 11/7/22!)

Post by Scsigs » Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:44 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:48 pm
Scsigs wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:13 pm The movies were made to be 50-minute elseworlds-type tales that you can watch, have fun with them, then discard them because they don't matter much. You never had to deal with the movies being the be all, end all of the franchise.
Yeah, that's how I feel about the movies too. Ironically, just how out of continuity they are makes them easier to accept. You know, until the animated series start incorporating stuff from them, at which point my brain explodes! ;-)
Which is why when it comes to animated stuff, I defer to Kai. Even though The Final Chapters didn't cut as much of the filler as it should've (the only eggregious example, imo, being the Hell scenes since they not only didn't establish Hell in the first 98 episodes, but it contradicted how Piccolo described Hell in the arc & is inconsistent with Resurrection F & Super's depictions of Hell, both of which were at least partially written by Toriyama), I still prefer it to the original Z due to better pacing, better consistency from cutting of most of the filler, & a better English dub. I didn't like how some of the filler arcs incorporated stuff from the movies. Especially when, logistically, they don't make sense to get sequels.
I honestly hate when people try to argue the movies work in the main storyline of the show or manga. Really, most don't. Off the top of my head, the ones you could try to squeeze in are the first Cooler movie, maybe Broly 1 (although, it's non-canon given Super Broly anyways), Bojack, & Wrath of the Dragon (apologies for using the English names, I don't know the Japanese ones off the top of my head & the English names are mostly easier to remember). All of the others have continuity problems that completely stop them from being able to fit in certain ways. I really don't understand why people really care about this shit anyways. The people who wrote the movies knew that as well, so it's dumb to argue otherwise.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/22!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:51 am

Grandpa Goku No More - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 1

The 10th annual Dragon Ball Dissection is here! Dragon Ball GT is here! I'm hoping at least one of those things excites you. It's a deep dive into the first episode. Goku is a kid, Pan is bitter, a print job loser is a loser, and the old God might have been far more screwed up than we thought. What is up with all of those skeletons?! Anyway, please check it out, and I hope you like it.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

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Current Episode: A Hero's Clone - Dragon Ball Dissection: Goku's Side Story! Siu Xing Qiu is a Testament to Courage

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/22!)

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:13 pm

So not that I know for sure, but I did think at the time that the funi dub changed the timeline from 5 to 10 years was because of Pan. Partly because she's on a date with some dude, and partly because at 9, she's taller than Goku, who would be 12 - 15 post wish.

I was definitely against the idea of Goku being a kid again, but was also intrigued that weaker body could also mean other characters get to do stuff too...But then there's a reason why GT is nicknamed Goku Time, *sigh*

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/22!)

Post by coola » Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:01 pm

FoolsGil wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:13 pm So not that I know for sure, but I did think at the time that the funi dub changed the timeline from 5 to 10 years was because of Pan. Partly because she's on a date with some dude, and partly because at 9, she's taller than Goku, who would be 12 - 15 post wish.
I think Bra was main reason, i mean, that's really supposed to be 9 - 10? She acts and look more like 16 :o
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