MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 3/4/24!)

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/23/22!)

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon May 23, 2022 9:50 am

Prior to Battle Of Gods, I believe that DBZ Movie 13 has the best-written plot of any Dragon Ball film and I will die on that hill.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/25/22!)

Post by Ssj3Engels » Mon May 23, 2022 1:13 pm

Noah wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 11:38 pm He could have waited more 3 monts, just to have the time perfectly match lol
My thoughts exactly. :lol:

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/23/22!)

Post by jcogginsa » Mon May 23, 2022 3:43 pm

Wiuth regards to the Music Box, I think we do have reason to believe that the vessel itself is special in this instance, as this vessel required the dragonballs to open, whereas the Mafuba Vessels could be opened normally. I always interpreted Bulma's actions as "trying to do the magical thing with science" which is common enough for scientists that I didn't really question it.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/23/22!)

Post by WittyUsername » Mon May 23, 2022 3:52 pm

This is my favorite Dragon Ball movie, but I do think it would’ve benefitted from a longer runtime, which could’ve helped address some of the issues mentioned in the video. I’m not saying it needed to be a full two hours, but an extra 5-10 minutes would’ve been nice.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/23/22!)

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Tue May 24, 2022 7:18 am

I find it very funny that barely any time gets touched on the Dragon Fist Explosion aspect of the Dragon Fist Explosion!! If Goku Won't Do It, Who Will? movie lmao
Just a testament to how much it (one of, if not Goku's only original techniques) relies on Rule of Cool in isolation (in which it does look quite cool, so cool that Goku continues to use it in GT as one of his later signatures). Oh yeah, the movie was fine. Tapion is also quite radical.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/25/22!)

Post by lancerman » Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:50 pm

Kid Buu wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:28 pm I feel like that one poster who suggested the arc could have been better if Gohan died against Fat Buu and we skipped the Mystic portion would have made the pacing.

Uub is kind of uninteresting as he's just Gohan and Nam combined. Character development is a thing though. I would have preferred if he went to space instead of Trunks, but that is a discussion for another day.

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The Boo arc is one of those instances where I could see a remake with someone who is more organized than Toriyama, making it a total gem. The arc has 3 primary characters. Goku, Vegeta and Gohan.

Goku is the fading legend who wants to pass off his mantle to a worthy successor. His challenge is that he fails with Gohan and Gotenks who both aren't suited towards it. His reward is in the very end he gets Uub.

Vegeta is motivating by his inability to get over his rivalry with Goku, his low point is allowing himself to be Babidi's puppet to match Goku and later finding out Goku hid his true strength. His resolution is that he finally is able to put the past behind him as he fights alongside Goku even fusing with him and acknowledging him as his better and he gets to come to terms with it and live a life with Bulma after without all the baggage.

Gohan is where the most tweaking would need to come from. But I like the idea of Gohan just wanting to be a normal high school student who isn't forced into battles like his father. His test is that everyone including is father is counting on him to face Boo. His low point is when his father is literally asking him to merge with him forever to be a super fighter. His resolution can be that he gets to be a family man at the end and didn't have to sacrafice his identity.

There is a good 3 character story that you can tell with the Boo arc as the back drop with a little more focus than Toriyama's fly by your seat writing. 3 main characters who have a conflict in their heart that is tested by the events of the arc that get their peace at the end.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/23/22!)

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:56 pm

Funny enough I can forgive the leaps in Wrath of Dragon mentioned in the video as necessary or simple shortsightedness, but the one that always gets me is how Hoi figured out the other music box was one Earth (were the destinations hand-picked?), that Earth had Dragon Balls, and how he came to his idea of getting the attention of someone who would know about them. The little man was either flying completely blind or had done a lot more research than the movie lets on. It is the one you most have to forgive to have your story, and yet its the one that gets me! The lack of positive original characters in these movies is curious but also makes a lot of sense, the Dragon Team is a mostly solitary bunch that usually only makes new connections through fights, to the point that Wheelo and Kochin very likely would have never found Goku had Bulma not name-dropped him in the second Z movie. Young Gohan would have been the one to break this trend but those movies were already trying to draw attention to him in the first place. Goten and Trunks are really the one time we have important characters that are close enough to the spotlight to be considered as a jumping-in point for new characters, but are not themselves so important that that screentime would have just been given entirely to them.

I would also give Hildegarn its due. It isn't a character, but it does send off the Z movie series in an interesting way, which this movie did have something of an obligation to do. The lower half's battle with Gohan adds some mid-film punch to the story and makes us wonder if our characters can beat it if they just blast it hard enough, only for the completed monster to throw that out the window with the power to fade out of existence at any moment and then strike back just as quickly. It is a better version of Janemba's teleportation and even Instant Transmission in some ways- and they gave it to a demon the size of the Godzilla. It even gets to wreck West City! Not to mention that while Goku doesn't deserve the finishing move in this movie, Hildegarn certainly wailed on him the hardest.
lancerman wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:50 pmThere is a good 3 character story that you can tell with the Boo arc as the back drop with a little more focus than Toriyama's fly by your seat writing. 3 main characters who have a conflict in their heart that is tested by the events of the arc that get their peace at the end.
You wonder how much of this Toriyama had in mind to resolve going in, given that he said Buu was the one time he started a Dragon Ball story arc having already decided (and announced to the powers that be, at some point) it would be the last.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/23/22!)

Post by lancerman » Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:35 pm

BlazingFiddlesticks wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:56 pm Funny enough I can forgive the leaps in Wrath of Dragon mentioned in the video as necessary or simple shortsightedness, but the one that always gets me is how Hoi figured out the other music box was one Earth (were the destinations hand-picked?), that Earth had Dragon Balls, and how he came to his idea of getting the attention of someone who would know about them. The little man was either flying completely blind or had done a lot more research than the movie lets on. It is the one you most have to forgive to have your story, and yet its the one that gets me! The lack of positive original characters in these movies is curious but also makes a lot of sense, the Dragon Team is a mostly solitary bunch that usually only makes new connections through fights, to the point that Wheelo and Kochin very likely would have never found Goku had Bulma not name-dropped him in the second Z movie. Young Gohan would have been the one to break this trend but those movies were already trying to draw attention to him in the first place. Goten and Trunks are really the one time we have important characters that are close enough to the spotlight to be considered as a jumping-in point for new characters, but are not themselves so important that that screentime would have just been given entirely to them.

I would also give Hildegarn its due. It isn't a character, but it does send off the Z movie series in an interesting way, which this movie did have something of an obligation to do. The lower half's battle with Gohan adds some mid-film punch to the story and makes us wonder if our characters can beat it if they just blast it hard enough, only for the completed monster to throw that out the window with the power to fade out of existence at any moment and then strike back just as quickly. It is a better version of Janemba's teleportation and even Instant Transmission in some ways- and they gave it to a demon the size of the Godzilla. It even gets to wreck West City! Not to mention that while Goku doesn't deserve the finishing move in this movie, Hildegarn certainly wailed on him the hardest.
lancerman wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:50 pmThere is a good 3 character story that you can tell with the Boo arc as the back drop with a little more focus than Toriyama's fly by your seat writing. 3 main characters who have a conflict in their heart that is tested by the events of the arc that get their peace at the end.
You wonder how much of this Toriyama had in mind to resolve going in, given that he said Buu was the one time he started a Dragon Ball story arc having already decided (and announced to the powers that be, at some point) it would be the last.
Given Toriyama's style, I wouldn't be surprised if he just decided it would be the last arc no matter how it turned out and then went along his usual process. I don't think he would care as much about fan reception of Gohan being the lead if it was what he wanted for it's final story, and nobody would have really pushed him away from that. I think like usual, Toriyama stumbled on some good ideas and made them entertaining but didn't fully flesh them out because he didn't know the extent of what he had.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/23/22!)

Post by Scsigs » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:53 am

Thinking about Wrath of the Dragon, I remember how people legit think the original 13 DBZ movies are canon to the TV shows or manga for reasons that make 0 sense. None of the movies were made to be canon, they're just supposed to be fun little side stories written by the Toei staff writers. Some of the movies got lucky that there were time gaps due to Toriyama having multiple time skips in the story, but most of them don't have that luxury.
I honestly remember several years ago when Super was still on the air people somewhere arguing that Wrath of the Dragon was canon to the main storyline because kid Trunks has Tapion's sword in Super & mentions it. Except...no, that's not the case whatsoever. Unless I missed something because I haven't watched the Tournament of Power in full yet, kid Trunks is never shown having Tapion's sword or mentioning him that I can recall. Like, were we even watching the same show? I don't even think that's in the Super manga, but I haven't read much of it yet. I'm due for a rewatch of Super as a whole, but that would've stuck out to me when I originally watched it.
Why do so many people think this shit? It makes absolutely no sense to me. It makes about as much sense as trying to think that all of the movies are canon, even though not only were they never intended to be, but also most of them have discontinuities with the show & manga.

And then there's the group of people who for some reason think some of the games (Xenoverse 1 & 2, Kakarot, & the like) are canon, which I don't understand whatsoever. I'm sorry, but the games aren't canon. They're, like the movies, their own fun little side things with their own takes on the previous storylines, or have new ones that try something new or different. I don't understand this either. Unless something's written by, or given the official stamp of approval, by Toriyama, don't take it as canon. Especially if it's not shown or referenced in the materials he either writes, or helps write.

This is the only fandom of a property like Dragon Ball I've seen have this problem too. No others seem to have this problem. Other people seem to be able to separate these kinds of things in their minds, but Dragon Ball has people who can't accept these things & it confuses me as to why. Mistare Fusion is 1 of the only Dragon Ball YouTubers I've seen (or at least 1 of the more popular ones) to consistently say that the movies aren't canon, weren't meant to be, & why you shouldn't consider them so & I thank you for doing so. By all means, no one should stop the fact that the movies are like that from enjoying them, as most of the movies have a lot to like about them. Hell, I'm even an apologist for movies like Bojack Unbound, so I get it. Doesn't stop me from acknowledging it's not canon whatsoever.

Sorry for the rant. I had steam to blow off.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/23/22!)

Post by nineko » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:18 pm

I found out about DBD in September 2019 thanks to a recommendation by someone on another forum, and I happily watched 93 episodes of it in a row with only minimal breaks to perform necessary things (such as eating or peeing, possibly not at the same time even though it actually happened).

I've been a subscriber ever since, and I always look forward to the next episode. Too bad that there are videos about Power Rangers inbetween, I'm sure they're good and all, but that's not a show I'm familiar with (nor interested into), so I'm not watching them.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/23/22!)

Post by Noah » Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:17 pm

Movie 13 is one of my favorites, I like how Trunks is developed on it (ignoring the whole Tapion's sword mess), I feel like these movies did more justice to him and Goten than the actual series and what came after did it.

I also had the feeling this movie inspired what Dragon Ball GT became: we have characters like Gohan, Gotenks that were presumably stronger than Goku, but the show instead presents they are not and is up to Goku to save everyone. And yeah also because Dragon Fist became proeminent in this series as well.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 6/20/22!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:40 am

Dragon Ball Z's Greatest Rewrite - DBD TV: The Majin Boo Arc Part 1

I've been waiting decades for this. The animated Boo Arc is such a fascinating rewrite at the beginning. Great Saiyaman is such a different beast. And even the new opening theme is a ridiculously inappropriate representation of the content. The Boo Arc continues to be a wild mess, but Toei does its best with it!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 7/4/22!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:09 am

Filler Connecting Characters - DBD TV: The Majin Boo Arc Part 2

Continuing the animated Boo Arc into the animated Boo Arc and beyond, I look at how filler adds connections between characters that were either different in the manga or didn't exist at all. Videl and Chichi and Goku and Goten have their relationships altered or expanded. And then we get people like Mr. Satan and Spopovitch who never interacted at all being given a backstory together. It's wild how many people have been insisting to me that Spopovitch beats up on Videl because of a grudge against her father, but is that even true? (Spoilers: No)
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/1/22!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:20 am

7 More Weird Changes to Animated Dragon Ball - DBD TV: The Majin Boo Arc Part 3

I continue to look at the changes made to the animated Boo Arc. And it's a very long arc, so I decided to have fun with the format this time by structuring it as a numbered list! So here's 7 more things that the animated version changed, added, or otherwise screwed around with. Majin Boo's fingers, his eye color, Idasa's mom, and SO MUCH MORE! Anyway, I hope all of you enjoy it. Thanks!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/29/22!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:56 am

Filler's Double-Edged Sword - DBD TV: The Majin Boo Arc Part 4

There sure is a lot of filler to talk about in this arc. In this installment, I refer to one of my favorite changes and one of my least-favorite changes. The former involves expanding Boo's killing of everyone at God's Temple, something I feel more of us can get behind. The latter is expanding the gunman shooting Mr. Satan, something I thought was perfectly-paced in the manga but absolutely ruined here. However, that's something I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about. Am I being silly? What are your favorite and least-favorite Boo additions? As always, thanks for watching!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/29/22!)

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:36 am

Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:56 am Filler's Double-Edged Sword - DBD TV: The Majin Boo Arc Part 4

There sure is a lot of filler to talk about in this arc. In this installment, I refer to one of my favorite changes and one of my least-favorite changes. The former involves expanding Boo's killing of everyone at God's Temple, something I feel more of us can get behind. The latter is expanding the gunman shooting Mr. Satan, something I thought was perfectly-paced in the manga but absolutely ruined here. However, that's something I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about. Am I being silly? What are your favorite and least-favorite Boo additions? As always, thanks for watching!
I watched the anime Buu Arc years before I read the manga, and haven't watched it since, so I had never thought about the pacing of that particular event. After seeing what you had to say, though, I'd have to agree with you.

The anime gets plenty of, in my opinion well deserved, criticism for dragging things out, but this is a more subtle example that I had never really considered.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/29/22!)

Post by Scsigs » Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:35 am

I've only seen the Buu/Boo arc the whole way through once in original Z & I saw it all the way through once in Kai. While Kai has the better pacing because it removes a good amount of the filler, it still could use more cuts. Like, they didn't get rid of the Hell filler for some reason, which not only contradicted how Piccolo described death & death for evil people in the manga & anime in this arc, but also makes several continuity errors in Kai because they cut all of the initial Hell filler (barring a montage showing the Goku VS Pikkon fight after Cell) in the first 98 episodes plus keeping other filler they didn't need & having 2 entire filler episodes left in for no reason. Still, it's a vast improvement from the original. Z's take had so much unnecessary filler that made the arc drag on even after it already felt like it was dragging because a lot of what happens in this saga for the cool moments don't mean anything in the overall grand scheme of things, plot points get introduced & dropped, & characters go from feeling perfectly in-character to stupid (Goku being a prime victim of this, but is not the only one) at the drop of a hat just to force the plot along further than it needed to be at times. The better English dub also helped with the more accurate scripts & better acting. You can legit make a drinking game out of how many times Sean Schemmel had to yell or say, "Oh my gosh!" in this arc's original Z English dub, it's that common & annoying.
It's not helped by how much of the filler added to the awful childish humor of the arc. Like, why did we need filler of Goku & Vegeta starting from Buu's digestive tract & going up to his brain? Why did we need filler of Buu creating a port-a-potty to take a shit because he had indigestion? No thank you. Kai's cutting all of that out to match the manga was certainly welcome. Like, I know Toriyama's main sense of humor is toilet humor like that, but the arc has so much mood whiplash already that it's just infuriating. Like, I don't mind the arc on paper, as I think it's an ok storyline, but the padding, stretching of the story, & needless shit really starts to add up after a while. Like, I know these problems started in the Androids arc, but at least there wasn't nearly as much of it & it's discarded as quickly as it's brought up, so you don't have to think about it & there's better shit that takes its place to grasp on to most of the time. This arc really shows the limitations of thinking on your feet when writing a story & not being able, or at least trying, to map out a story beforehand & edit your drafts before sending them to the publisher, as well as how burnt out Toriyama was by the end of it.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/29/22!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:53 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:36 am I watched the anime Buu Arc years before I read the manga, and haven't watched it since, so I had never thought about the pacing of that particular event. After seeing what you had to say, though, I'd have to agree with you.

The anime gets plenty of, in my opinion well deserved, criticism for dragging things out, but this is a more subtle example that I had never really considered.
Thanks! It's one of those things that I feel nags at me more and more over time. I don't know if that's just because I've come to see the original version of this sequence as one of Toriyama's greatest accomplishments in the series. However, it really does tick so many boxes for me of how not to adapt something. In fact, I have a whole other reason I talk about in Part 5! I did have someone point out, though, that the fall the gunman takes in each version is slightly different. In the original, he slides down a small, gentle incline. In the anime, he bounces down a steep cliff. I don't know if that change was made to seem more dramatic, or if that was their justification for assuming that, say, he died. If it's the latter, though, I'd still want to check and, assuming he's dead, dispose of the body before going back to my normal boring life.
Scsigs wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:35 am You can legit make a drinking game out of how many times Sean Schemmel had to yell or say, "Oh my gosh!" in this arc's original Z English dub, it's that common & annoying.
Haha, I've never even see The Boo Arc dubbed, but I remember him saying it an unnerving number of times in prior arcs too!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/29/22!)

Post by Scsigs » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:22 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:53 pm
Scsigs wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:35 am You can legit make a drinking game out of how many times Sean Schemmel had to yell or say, "Oh my gosh!" in this arc's original Z English dub, it's that common & annoying.
Haha, I've never even see The Boo Arc dubbed, but I remember him saying it an unnerving number of times in prior arcs too!
Yeah, I'm not surprised. The OG Z dub often to me feels like adults in their first dubbing job trying their best to sound "edgy" or "adult" for the kids, but it comes off more as cringe. Half the time, I don't know if they had decent translations of the Japanese scripts or not to base their dialogue off of.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/26/22!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:42 am

The Lesser Ending - DBD TV: The Majin Boo Arc Part 5

I know it's been a record-breaking five parts, but I still can't believe I'm done with the animated Boo Arc already. So I hope you enjoy this last collection of filler. The next stop is GT! Let me know what you think, and thanks for watching!

EDIT: Whoops. I just noticed I never updated my signature for Part 4. Oh, well. Too late now. I'm so ashamed!
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