MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/15/21!)

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/31/20!)

Post by zDBZ » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:01 am

Cipher wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:05 am
I really have to disagree that the film would have been better off without Broly. His known menace and presence is precisely one of the things that makes it work, as we understand the tension of Videl (to our unease) and later Goten and Trunks (to our unease but also in a comical sense) not knowing what they’re up against when challenging him. Gohan’s fight becomes more tense and interesting without wasting time establishing a new dynamic as well.

This saves us from 1) having to waste time with serious villain setup in a movie not focused on or needing a charismatic villain du jour, and 2) getting another hum-drum nobody like Bojack to fill that role, which would reduce the fun of the movie substantially. We know who Broly is, we know from Movie 8 that he’s scary, he has a cool presence and design, he hasn’t met most of these characters before—okay, let’s get moving.

In a weird way, a Broly return is the perfect choice for a movie in which the villain isn’t the focus. I’m not saying the solution for mixing up focus or formula was always “just reuse a villain,” but in this particular instance, with these particular characters, it does the job really well. The humor (and way their childishness feeds into tension) of Goten/Trunks/Gotenks also depends on their opponent, and Broly is, I think, the character to best leverage that outside of Boo, for reasons covered in the video (but for a recap, you have the simultaneous humor and tension of Broly and Goten/Trunks speaking past each other, so to speak—having no idea and not bothering to care what the other side is about or after). Beerus works well with Gotenks too, with Gotenks (of all people) trying to chide him for his inanity and pettiness, but that never gets off the ground.

Not having the Dragon Balls scatter would have added some welcome ambiguity, but then we’d all just be questioning why they didn’t pull out the radar and search for them in the crystal quarry again. I’m fine with Toei Dragon Balls stretching credulity and rewarding a wish made improperly in dire earnestness from time to time. It won’t be the last time they do it.

So, yeah... Everything the Z movies are meant to do as harmless spectacle and story-light character interaction is in rare form here. I only see taking issue with it if enjoyment is tied solely to their villains—which, maybe it is for some people.
Well, in my case, the fact that the villain isn't the focus - and, frankly, feels shoehorned in for the sake of having a villain - is a great argument for this film not needing a Big Bad at all. If the dragon ball hunt and the village conflict had been fleshed out a little more - maybe given an overtly mystical element tied to the sacrifice business - you could've had a throwback to the Blood Rubies/Devil's Castle days, but with a fresh cast of characters and an evolved visual style. The hunt for the dragon balls could've been more episodic, the village incident one of several, that culminated in some caper that brought the Great Saiyaman into the mix. Other members of the main/secondary cast could have popped up along the way in a more expanded/involved fashion than Gohan's "my dad's back for the tournament!" courier service from the series, giving us a "slice of life" movie.

Basically, the charm of the front half, and the potential for more to be done with it, offers all sorts of options for a movie without a villain - at least, not a villain of Broly's power and brutality.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/31/20!)

Post by Cipher » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:27 pm

zDBZ wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:01 am
Well, in my case, the fact that the villain isn't the focus - and, frankly, feels shoehorned in for the sake of having a villain - is a great argument for this film not needing a Big Bad at all. If the dragon ball hunt and the village conflict had been fleshed out a little more - maybe given an overtly mystical element tied to the sacrifice business - you could've had a throwback to the Blood Rubies/Devil's Castle days, but with a fresh cast of characters and an evolved visual style. The hunt for the dragon balls could've been more episodic, the village incident one of several, that culminated in some caper that brought the Great Saiyaman into the mix. Other members of the main/secondary cast could have popped up along the way in a more expanded/involved fashion than Gohan's "my dad's back for the tournament!" courier service from the series, giving us a "slice of life" movie.

Basically, the charm of the front half, and the potential for more to be done with it, offers all sorts of options for a movie without a villain - at least, not a villain of Broly's power and brutality.
The fighting is fun too though. As mentioned in the video and previous posts here, Broly’s dynamic as a threatening villain interacting with Goten and Trunks (who don’t understand who he is), as well as Videl (same, but without the comedy) is enjoyable and unique among the Z movies. Gohan vs. Broly both looks spectacular and has memorable beats like Gohan attempting to use the magma to kill Broly. (How often do we get actual, shifting goals during a Z movie fight, rather than just trading attacks until the climax happens?) Doesn’t outstay its welcome either.

The fighting have is the more fun half of the movie, but part of that is because (on top of looking great), it doesn’t abandon its character dynamics or setup for it.

The low-story, fighting-heavy 45-minute Z movies have a pretty low collective ceiling, but I think this entry is among those that handle the format the best.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/31/20!)

Post by zDBZ » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:26 pm

Cipher wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:27 pm
zDBZ wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:01 am
Well, in my case, the fact that the villain isn't the focus - and, frankly, feels shoehorned in for the sake of having a villain - is a great argument for this film not needing a Big Bad at all. If the dragon ball hunt and the village conflict had been fleshed out a little more - maybe given an overtly mystical element tied to the sacrifice business - you could've had a throwback to the Blood Rubies/Devil's Castle days, but with a fresh cast of characters and an evolved visual style. The hunt for the dragon balls could've been more episodic, the village incident one of several, that culminated in some caper that brought the Great Saiyaman into the mix. Other members of the main/secondary cast could have popped up along the way in a more expanded/involved fashion than Gohan's "my dad's back for the tournament!" courier service from the series, giving us a "slice of life" movie.

Basically, the charm of the front half, and the potential for more to be done with it, offers all sorts of options for a movie without a villain - at least, not a villain of Broly's power and brutality.
The fighting is fun too though. As mentioned in the video and previous posts here, Broly’s dynamic as a threatening villain interacting with Goten and Trunks (who don’t understand who he is), as well as Videl (same, but without the comedy) is enjoyable and unique among the Z movies. Gohan vs. Broly both looks spectacular and has memorable beats like Gohan attempting to use the magma to kill Broly. (How often do we get actual, shifting goals during a Z movie fight, rather than just trading attacks until the climax happens?) Doesn’t outstay its welcome either.

The fighting have is the more fun half of the movie, but part of that is because (on top of looking great), it doesn’t abandon its character dynamics or setup for it.

The low-story, fighting-heavy 45-minute Z movies have a pretty low collective ceiling, but I think this entry is among those that handle the format the best.
I would have to watch the film again, but my memory is that all the fun was zapped out when the fighting started, though it was at least shorter than the initial Broly film's fight. YMMV, of course.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/31/20!)

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:47 pm

There have been so many "topical" episodes for the Buu arc so far, but then Buu's continuous story swerving really invites it. I didn't expect the Videl vs Spopovitch video to open with "Do you ever realize the Tenkaichi Buodkai has no rules?" :clap:

I've always appreciated just how snugly Babidi tops Freeza in the escalation game. Freeza's a galaxy-spanning pirate king who can recruit whoever can he can coerce, but Babidi's a galaxy-spanning wizard who can both travel to and tame the mightiest monsters from the darkest corners of realms unknown and makes would-be series villains his bodyguards, all to revive his Dad's creation that purportedly dwarfs them all. And he always struck me as a Star Wars puppet run through some kind of ugly parody filter, I like it. If Toriyama hadn't had other plans, there was really nothing stopping him from using Babidi's horde to make another Nappa/Vegeta dynamic just to build up Buu that much more. But considering how long the Buu arc ultimately went anyway I am very glad he didn't, and seeing our characters absurd strength played for a joke for the first time since the perhaps Red Ribbon Army is the more novel route.

At risk of summarizing Lance and Cipher, to me Majin Vegeta struggles for trying to sum mismatched parts. Toriyama finally addresses Vegeta's decade long ire head on to readers/viewers who had at the time been waiting most of four years for it. Only to put it aside the moment its mercenary purpose of reviving Buu has been set in motion, and with a supposedly "new" Vegeta we had never gotten to know well enough to distinguish as anything more than functionally civil. It uses too big a story thread to do too small a thing, does not quite convince as it is presented, and isn't allowed to do anything the Goku/Vegeta rematch "should". Even the two having the heated words they did when Vegeta came back to fight Super Buu would have been something. It works as well as it does because Vegeta's anger does span his entire run of the series, but at that point there is no difference between it happening in the Cell arc versus here. I think some people just really wanted their Goku v. Vegeta rematch. In that regard I certainly cannot fault the anime for making it look a whole lot nicer. Short of an original movie, for all they knew it would be the last chance they got!

Divining Gohan's taste in video games eludes me. He's seen his share of fantasy battle adventures to need any of those games, but we don't see him doing enough of anything else to get a read on him! :lol:
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/31/20!)

Post by Kid Buu » Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:41 pm

Surprised the OP hasn't mentioned his new Q&A video since a lot of it is about DB and the Dissection series.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/15/21!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:26 am

Long Live the Prince - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Majin Boo Arc Part 14!

Otherwise known as Vegeta Dies, and I Feel Okay About That. Yes, Dragon Ball Dissection returns for the new year, and, yes, after three episodes, we finally come to the last stop on Vegeta's crazy train!
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 2/15/21!)
Current Episode: Long Live the Prince - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Majin Boo Arc Part 14!

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/15/21!)

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:54 am

That trivia at the end. Incredible. :clap:

Sidenote, someone in your comment section is that Vegeta doesn't hug his son until he dies. Always funny that Goku managed to hug Goten first despite being dead for 7 years.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/15/21!)

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:50 pm

Wa-was my comment about Majin Vegeta referenced indirectly in this video? :o I'll take it. For real, I went back and realised I probably sounded a little, uh, firm in that comment and I don't wanna come off as a typical Vegeta shill, there's certainly flaws with his overall arc even though I find it generally well-executed. With the argument about the interpretation of Vegeta vs. Goku being intentionally anticlimactic, I totally get that that seems like a cop out to say something as lame as "it was bad on purpose". I don't think the conflict itself was bad even though fisticuffs were lacking, in hindsight I think Toriyama made a good decision to focus more on Goku and Vegeta's dialogue and interactions. The anime buffs it up to a legitimately quite great fight which is certainly a bonus.

As much as Vegeta tries to steal the show, I enjoy it just as much for Goku. You can tell by his constant smirking that he's enjoying himself as much as Vegeta -- in spite of the responsibility he holds to keep Majin Buu from being awakened, his Saiyan instincts come out. To use a really strenuous analogy, it's like an ostensibly responsible older brother tutting to get his annoying baby bro to come down for dinner, but he's upstairs playing Power Stone or something and won't come down unless someone plays him. Before either of them know it, it's 01:30, they're on Round 17 and dinner's been put in the freezer.

As for Vegeta's sacrifice... yeah, it's pretty great.
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