Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.

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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:06 pm

Given the quality of stuff like Dragon Ball Runaways, and Absalon, which were done without the financial backing of a fan community this was always going to struggle to please demand. Even without that context, I was less than impressed. There were plenty of problems I'd pick out, but notably the audio of Gohan's Masenko was really poor. It sounds like it was added in a poorly insinuated sound booth, or a poorly miced sound stage. It just was really out of place given all the other pieces of audio seemed well done. It may have been more Dragon Ball than Evolution, but it's the evidence needed that a straight adaptation of Dragon Ball isn't possible in live action without looking goofy.
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:31 pm

I saw it like 5 minutes ago and I would have posted a comment it by now if the forums were not running so slow. I think it was pretty good and I like the scene when they arrived at East City. People are hating on the bad effects when the trailer is a low budget short film. They look much better then anything that was made by The Asyulm in my opinion. I do agree that the acting was pretty hammy though.

This is a type of DBZ movie that I wanted to see several years ago in 2003 or 2004 when the whole rumor casting was going around. I rather watch a two hour movie of this over DBE or The Magic Begins any day.
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Tenshinhan-san » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:31 pm

Overall I like it.

Let me put up front that there is a LOT of room for improvement; we got bland line delivery, dub terminology was mixed with the Japanese one, music made voices inaudible at times and a good number of the effects and costumes were pretty low budget looking among some other issues. Still; this was very faithful to the source material - which seems to have been mainly the dubbed version of the anime in this case - and obviously a lot of love went into the project. Considering they did mainly wedding videos before this, I think they did okay. I also think that it was a very good choice to use a mixed cast (with martial arts background) and a lot of characters looked the part, at least physically - even if some of them weren't great nor experienced actors.

Granted, handled with more professionalism and less happy-go-lucky naivety they probably could've done a lot more with a lot less, but I also feel like lots of other (amateur) teams would've done a lot worse with a lot more - not to take away from the gravity of some of the bad choices that were made in the process of creating this, namely the semi-legality in which IndieGoGo was (mis)used.

I hope this contributes to encourage more people to start doing more high-end fanprojects like DragonBall Absylon, Multiverse etc.

Edit: People use this project as an argument to prove DragonBall 'just can't be pulled off well in Live Action'. IMO that's really a non-argument, because if anything this exact project proves that it can be done. If two wedding filmers (!) with love for the source material and a relatively small budget can make something halfway decent looking, imagine what the actual potential is. I mean we got fucking Avengers for fuck's sake (among a shitload of other comparable stuff). If they can pull that off I imagine they can pull off a convincing yet faithfull DragonBall Live Action Movie. A challenge? Of course, but also very possible.
Last edited by Tenshinhan-san on Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:38 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Kendamu » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:33 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:Given the quality of stuff like Dragon Ball Runaways, and Absalon, which were done without the financial backing of a fan community this was always going to struggle to please demand. Even without that context, I was less than impressed. There were plenty of problems I'd pick out, but notably the audio of Gohan's Masenko was really poor. It sounds like it was added in a poorly insinuated sound booth, or a poorly miced sound stage. It just was really out of place given all the other pieces of audio seemed well done. It may have been more Dragon Ball than Evolution, but it's the evidence needed that a straight adaptation of Dragon Ball isn't possible in live action without looking goofy.
That's why anyone doing a Dragonball movie should just go the Speed Racer route and embrace how colorful and over-the-top the world is.

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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Jackal puFF » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:33 pm

Even after seeing the trailer now I want to see more.. Well more of the other stuff. Like the video of Tien training. I know they have to have more videos like that, right? Maybe if they didn't make it so much like a trailer and overload on the beams, it would have been okay.

I think it would have been alright if the effects were better.. Chiaotzu totally ruined the group shot. The whole beam struggle was like two flashlights colliding.. And Piccolo's death was just weird.

Tons of little things relating to effects that are bad like part of Krillin's head being blurred lol (way too noticeable), Gohan and Chiaotzu weird echo in their voices.. And can someone help me? What is Tien saying at 2:03?

Oh and the lines.. I don't like Vegeta saying sparring.. Why not just say fight? The mix of attack names was weird.

Still pretty cool the three humans all look like the real deal. Actually liked the part with Krillin and Piccolo firing down at Nappa.

The other thing that gets me are some of the angles they shot some scenes in. The closeups in the scene where the saiyans arrive was awful.
Last edited by Jackal puFF on Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:39 pm

Kendamu wrote:
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:Given the quality of stuff like Dragon Ball Runaways, and Absalon, which were done without the financial backing of a fan community this was always going to struggle to please demand. Even without that context, I was less than impressed. There were plenty of problems I'd pick out, but notably the audio of Gohan's Masenko was really poor. It sounds like it was added in a poorly insinuated sound booth, or a poorly miced sound stage. It just was really out of place given all the other pieces of audio seemed well done. It may have been more Dragon Ball than Evolution, but it's the evidence needed that a straight adaptation of Dragon Ball isn't possible in live action without looking goofy.
That's why anyone doing a Dragonball movie should just go the Speed Racer route and embrace how colorful and over-the-top the world is.
After the box office performance of that film (and Evolution itself) no one in Hollywood is going to drop the coin required to do that, and as this shows, you'll need a lot of coin.
"I like the money it brings in, but Dragon Ball Heroes is the worst. That's actually the real reason I decided to start working on new material. I was afraid Bandai would make something irredeemably stupid like Super Saiyan 4 Broly." - Akira Toriyama, made up interview, 2013.

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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Kendamu » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:44 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:
Kendamu wrote:
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:Given the quality of stuff like Dragon Ball Runaways, and Absalon, which were done without the financial backing of a fan community this was always going to struggle to please demand. Even without that context, I was less than impressed. There were plenty of problems I'd pick out, but notably the audio of Gohan's Masenko was really poor. It sounds like it was added in a poorly insinuated sound booth, or a poorly miced sound stage. It just was really out of place given all the other pieces of audio seemed well done. It may have been more Dragon Ball than Evolution, but it's the evidence needed that a straight adaptation of Dragon Ball isn't possible in live action without looking goofy.
That's why anyone doing a Dragonball movie should just go the Speed Racer route and embrace how colorful and over-the-top the world is.
After the box office performance of that film (and Evolution itself) no one in Hollywood is going to drop the coin required to do that, and as this shows, you'll need a lot of coin.
Believe me when I say that I fully know and understand that. It's the primary reason we'll never see a truly faithful DBZ movie. Even Saiyan Saga muted the colors and bunch and whatnot.

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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Makaioshin » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:07 pm

A good effort. Really like the Nappa vs Tenshinhan bits and their Yamucha is still great. Chaozu was creepy as fuck and the close ups to Piccolo looked awkward, though.
Tenshinhan-san wrote:People use this project as an argument to prove DragonBall 'just can't be pulled off well in Live Action'. IMO that's really a non-argument, because if anything this exact project proves that it can be done. If two wedding filmers (!) with love for the source material and a relatively small budget can make something halfway decent looking, imagine what the actual potential is. I mean we got fucking Avengers for fuck's sake (among a shitload of other comparable stuff). If they can pull that off I imagine they can pull off a convincing yet faithfull DragonBall Live Action Movie. A challenge? Of course, but also very possible.
Yeah, I definitely agree with you there. There are some Chinese movies which prove this as well.

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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Raykugen » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:18 pm

Pafupafu wrote:Yeah, we know that. What I can't wrap my head around is that its nearly 2013 and "Amateurs" can advertise their services in conjunction with a well-established property and profit from it, either monetarily or through exposure, and get away with it. The real problem is this: There are much more qualified professionals who would have interest in making a $15,000+ budget DragonBall fanfilm and would execute it much more professionally and in a greater quality if given the opportunity. K&K's opportunity was achieved through illegal and immoral means and for that, they do not deserve to be lauded for "omg saving DBZ from DB:E". At the end of the day...these guys are essentially Criminals. And that may be hard for some of the people on this forum, and within this fanbase, to swallow because of their desire to see a project of this nature. But the fact of the matter is that even if K&K make an incredible video that changes DragonBall forever (promotional material thus far says otherwise), it will not change the means in which they obtained this opportunity and, once again I state, their complete and utter misuse of an essential tool for artists and independent filmmakers.
What the fuck are you talking about? They aren't working they are doing this for freeis a NON PROFIT PROJECT so is LEGAL, if people wants to donate his money IT'S LEGAL, BECAUSE IT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:27 pm

Being too faithful can be a bad thing since it will come off looking stupid. You need to do it in a blance that it can come off not too silly but still feel faithful. DBE try to do that, but it failed.
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:35 pm

Raykugen wrote:What the fuck are you talking about? They aren't working they are doing this for freeis a NON PROFIT PROJECT so is LEGAL, if people wants to donate his money IT'S LEGAL, BECAUSE IT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO
I don't know about the country that you live in, but in the United States, you're not allowed to just take someone else's intellectual property and make (non-parody) new products with their exact names and likenesses, "non-profit" or otherwise.

That is, indeed, against the law.

This is, indeed, technically copyright infringement (among other things).

But we've been over this many times already :).
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Ringworm128 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:38 pm

That was awesome considering these guys are amateurs and they didn't have a muli million dollar budget. I seriously don't know why people were expecting amazing special effects with top notch acting. I hope these guys improve even more and have a shot at the Freeza saga.
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Raykugen » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:47 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Raykugen wrote:What the fuck are you talking about? They aren't working they are doing this for freeis a NON PROFIT PROJECT so is LEGAL, if people wants to donate his money IT'S LEGAL, BECAUSE IT'S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO
I don't know about the country that you live in, but in the United States, you're not allowed to just take someone else's intellectual property and make (non-parody) new products with their exact names and likenesses, "non-profit" or otherwise.

That is, indeed, against the law.

This is, indeed, technically copyright infringement (among other things).

But we've been over this many times already :).
Even it's non profit? Are you saying that if you do something about dragon ball for free is illegal? So, In the US, the doujinshis are illegal too? ._.
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Saiga » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:48 pm

I really enjoyed the trailer! For the money they spent, it came out quite good. I'm really happy for them that it turned out like this.

I do have issues with the inconsistent naming of the attacks, as well as the pronunciation of them. That's probably my biggest gripe.

The characters didn't look as good as they could have, and Piccolo could have been cast better. Still, I can excuse these because of the limited size of the project.

@VegettoEX So why are parodies exempt?
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by SparkyPantsMcGee » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:50 pm

I admire their efforts but I couldn't pay money to see this. The fact that they went out there and did this is great story to tell and I hope they had a blast when doing so, but I couldn't watch this with a straight face. Ironically, if they had stayed away from the "DBZ elements" and tried to shoot a more grounded martial arts trailer, it would have been much better. That Tenshinhan demo reel was the best thing to come out of this production.
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:52 pm

Like I said, it depends on what you're doing.

I can write a book ABOUT the series, but I can't write my own CONTINUATION of the series (again, using their exact names, likenesses, etc.) and expect to get away with it. Writing fanfiction online? Probably not going to get you into trouble. It's too much to bother caring about for so little gain (and bad press).

Trying to publish it for your own personal monetary gain? Yeah, you'll need to swap that up.

(Doujinshi operates in a really weird space in Japan in particular. I can't really speak to it -- not familiar enough with internal Japanese law.)

Whether or not money changes hands doesn't affect its status as copyright infringement. It sure adds to the attention of the rights holders, though.

Parodies are exempt as a matter of free speech and criticism, something that we are granted as citizens of the United States. Making a faithful trailer/story/movie is not a "parody".
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Raykugen » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:55 pm

and a not official book, for example, a biography not approved it's illegal too?
Sorry for the offtopic, but I just wanted to know
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:58 pm

Facts cannot be copyrighted (as much as the NFL would like to beg to differ...!). You can write factual accounts and descriptions of things to your heart's content and you cannot be prosecuted for copyright infringement.

For example, I could write an unofficial guide to Dragon Ball if I wanted. I could write anything I wanted that described it, its merchandise, etc. I could not just use images FROM THE SERIES, though, because I do not own those -- they are the intellectual property of their respective owners.

You can write a biography of anyone, too. They might not like it, and they might sue you for libel if they feel you misrepresent them / lied about them / fabricated information (and are alive to do so), but you're welcome to write it!
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by Raykugen » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:21 pm

Oh, thank you for the information, Mike :wink:
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Re: Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

Post by KaiserNeko » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:55 pm

That was awful. Just... awful.

Nothing worse than seeing a bunch of squandered money and talent.
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