Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

[DBZnut]

It wasn't that bad. bit harsh....

[KaiserNeko]

It wasn't that bad. bit harsh....

See, there are parts where the special effects look downright impressive for it's low budget. But the costume design, choreography, acting, makeup, casting, and the rest of the special effects were just all... bad.

Anyone who tells me, "It was made with a low budget!" doesn't get my point either. It's bad. It's a bad product. It looks and sounds bad. If they wanted it not to be bad, perhaps they should have gone for something less ambitious and put more time and effort into fixing the things that make it bad.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

It wasn't that bad. bit harsh....

See, there are parts where the special effects look downright impressive for it's low budget. But the costume design, choreography, acting, makeup, casting, and the rest of the special effects were just all... bad.

Anyone who tells me, "It was made with a low budget!" doesn't get my point either. It's bad. It's a bad product. It looks and sounds bad. If they wanted it not to be bad, perhaps they should have gone for something less ambitious and put more time and effort into fixing the things that make it bad.

It's the choreography that gets me too. Most of these actors are trained martial artists specifically hired because of that fact. Yet none of the shots really take advantage of their talent.

[Gonstead]

*sigh* I don't know man, the whole thing just felt... disappointing.

[Soul]

Kaiser nailed it on the head.
Nearly everything about this thing is bad. The acting, the SFX, the fight choreography...just about everything.
I agree that they should've done some way less ambitious. Could Dragon Ball be done in live action? Possibly, but you sure as heck don't try and do something as ambitious as trying to show flight and ki attacks in the series for a fan film, not unless you have the real talent to actually do it, and well.

These guys are scam artists as far I can tell. "By the fans, for the fans"? Fine, do it with your own money then, not everyone else's.

You wanna see a good fan film project? Watch Thousand Pound Action Co.'s Naruto fan film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mSdpM ... ata_player

[Thanos]

Yeah, I was disappointed, but not surprised. I kind of figured it would go in this direction after seeing Piccolo's design (absolutely atrocious) and the Saiyans' armor.

The beams looked quite bad, as well. I feel like they stand right beside amateur 30 second YouTube clips of people doing a Kamehame-Ha in their bedroom.

[DBZfan29]

That was pretty bad. I have been skeptical about the project since they called it the "Seien Saga," and the finished product made it worse. The actors were horrible, the dialogue was too cheesy, and even though I thought Piccolo looked cool in promotional footage, he looked horrible in the trailer. I hated how they chose to reshoot parts because their costume designer quit before filming. Why would they continue to shoot, and then ask for another 10 grand from the fans? The only things I liked were the transparent scouters... and some of the other effects. Overall, this discourages me to become a director and hope to adapt a great Dragon Ball story. It has killed my dreams.

[Pafupafu]

I would just like to say thank you to VegettoEX for clarifying additional information regarding the legality of this project as I have been over it for months in this thread.

I would also like to point out that Derek's withholding of the responses he got from K&K during his interview regarding this manner was in poor taste. These guys have, up until this point, said that they are 100% legal in their actions and are only now seeking approval from FUNi. But wait...before that, they're just going to post it online for the entire world to see anyways? IDIOTIC.

And obviously, that same idiotic mindset shows through the final product. This is a video that utilized $15,000+ and months and months of time to produce a 5-minute short that any mid-level film student can do with After Effects in a weekend. They stole so much money from this. STOLE. I can make this accusation because the final result has not shown ANY sign of return on investment. If you wish to prove otherwise, then please provide documented purchases and other receipts for production expenses. I feel horribly sorry for anyone who was scammed by these two amateur filmmakers.

Derek, the self-proclaimed "Dao of DragonBall" said this was essentially created by "two brothers and a dream". Derek failed to mention to all of you, that this dream was to scam countless people using IndieGoGo with promises that have not been fulfilled. Welcome to the reality of the situation.

K&K luckily wasted this "opportunity" they illegally created for themselves. They have put out a "bootleg" product so lacking in quality, that it has and will continue to completely eliminate their reputation as filmmakers.

Be ready for the $25,000 IndieGoGo page for the "Freeza Saga" next month.

[DBZnut]

I really don't think it's as bad as your all saying.

It was average, wasn't the worst they could do, some things looked great and i particularly liked the part when they landed on earth.

Though the actors certainly weren't up too par, they lack the ability of actors, they are martial artists. The scene where piccolo died just looked awkward.

it was average, certainly could have done better and certainly could have done worse

[Kendamu]

Derek, the self-proclaimed "Dao of DragonBall" said this was essentially created by "two brothers and a dream". Derek failed to mention to all of you, that this dream was to scam countless people using IndieGoGo with promises that have not been fulfilled. Welcome to the reality of the situation.

That's not what "Dao" means. It's not a title you give to a person. It means "The Way" and uses the same character (道) as the one in the Japanese word "do" like "Judo" or "Kendo." So, no worries, he's not a self-proclaimed anything. His site title is a play on other titles like "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" and other such books explaining a way of doing things or a philosophy behind something.

[Saiga]

They stole so much money from this. STOLE. I can make this accusation because the final result has not shown ANY sign of return on investment. If you wish to prove otherwise, then please provide documented purchases and other receipts for production expenses. I feel horribly sorry for anyone who was scammed by these two amateur filmmakers.

Derek, the self-proclaimed "Dao of DragonBall" said this was essentially created by "two brothers and a dream". Derek failed to mention to all of you, that this dream was to scam countless people using IndieGoGo with promises that have not been fulfilled. Welcome to the reality of the situation.

"Stole" is an unfair accusation. It's a lie. If you're going to accuse them of that, have some actual proof they didn't spend it on the project.

[cloud1414]

They need to take some notes from these guys in these videos if they want to make a good live action video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mSdpMJCdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn_HaEf62h4

[bkev]

Honestly, my expectations were so low that I ended up being impressed. The costumes looked much better in the actual product than in those awful promotional pictures. Maybe they could have done more for the money they got. I don't know, I don't care. I was impressed, but not to a "wow" level.

[Pafupafu]

They stole so much money from this. STOLE. I can make this accusation because the final result has not shown ANY sign of return on investment. If you wish to prove otherwise, then please provide documented purchases and other receipts for production expenses. I feel horribly sorry for anyone who was scammed by these two amateur filmmakers.

Derek, the self-proclaimed "Dao of DragonBall" said this was essentially created by "two brothers and a dream". Derek failed to mention to all of you, that this dream was to scam countless people using IndieGoGo with promises that have not been fulfilled. Welcome to the reality of the situation.

"Stole" is an unfair accusation. It's a lie. If you're going to accuse them of that, have some actual proof they didn't spend it on the project.

"Didn't steal" is actually the unfair accusation. A lot of people put their own money into this project based on lies from K&K. As I am particularly well-versed in this industry and know the normal costs of production expenses, I have every right to assume they are lying when they say they have not taken any of the funding for personal gain. I have seen the final product. I have seen K&K dodge and block any attempt by a human being to question both these copyright and personal profit issues. Innocent until proven guilty. Well, this final product, which does not in any way remotely reflect $15,000+ in expenses, has proven K&K guilty. Guilty of describing capabilities they simply do not have with a license they simply. do. not. have.

"Stole", is defined in two ways in this situation. They "stole" the rights of a well-known product for personal gain. And they "stole" funding from the general public by utilizing that same product as a means to advertise themselves in conjunction. Like I said previously, provide exact production expense receipts, until then they are frauds in my book. There have been award-winning independent films shot for around their budget, at full length. This is a joke to people who know the industry and actual costs of productions such as this.

[Saiga]

"Didn't steal" is actually the unfair accusation. A lot of people put their own money into this project based on lies from K&K. As I am particularly well-versed in this industry and know the normal costs of production expenses, I have every right to assume they are lying when they say they have not taken any of the funding for personal gain. I have seen the final product. I have seen K&K dodge and block any attempt by a human being to question both these copyright and personal profit issues. Innocent until proven guilty. Well, this final product, which does not in any way remotely reflect $15,000+ in expenses, has proven K&K guilty. Guilty of describing capabilities they simply do not have with a license they simply. do. not. have.

"Stole", is defined in two ways in this situation. They "stole" the rights of a well-known product for personal gain. And they "stole" funding from the general public by utilizing that same product as a means to advertise themselves in conjunction. Like I said previously, provide exact production expense receipts, until then they are frauds in my book. There have been award-winning independent films shot for around their budget, at full length. This is a joke to people who know the industry and actual costs of productions such as this.

"Didn't steal" is not unfair nor an accusation. Your evidence-less claims are not at all proof. Without seeing their own reports you can't know where the money was spent, nor if they pocketed any of it. Perhaps since they lack your expert experience, they weren't able to spend the money as wisely as you would have. That isn't proof of theft.

[Big Momma]

"Didn't steal" is actually the unfair accusation. A lot of people put their own money into this project based on lies from K&K. As I am particularly well-versed in this industry and know the normal costs of production expenses, I have every right to assume they are lying when they say they have not taken any of the funding for personal gain. I have seen the final product. I have seen K&K dodge and block any attempt by a human being to question both these copyright and personal profit issues. Innocent until proven guilty. Well, this final product, which does not in any way remotely reflect $15,000+ in expenses, has proven K&K guilty. Guilty of describing capabilities they simply do not have with a license they simply. do. not. have.

"Stole", is defined in two ways in this situation. They "stole" the rights of a well-known product for personal gain. And they "stole" funding from the general public by utilizing that same product as a means to advertise themselves in conjunction. Like I said previously, provide exact production expense receipts, until then they are frauds in my book. There have been award-winning independent films shot for around their budget, at full length. This is a joke to people who know the industry and actual costs of productions such as this.

"Didn't steal" is not unfair nor an accusation. Your evidence-less claims are not at all proof. Without seeing their own reports you can't know where the money was spent, nor if they pocketed any of it. Perhaps since they lack your expert experience, they weren't able to spend the money as wisely as you would have. That isn't proof of theft.

To add onto that, K&K asked for donations. People gave them donations. And that was the choice of those donating, no one else. Whenever you give money to a project like this, especially on the internet, you need to understand what you're putting your money to. You need to understand that the project could be unsatisfactory, a waste of your money, and/or even a complete scam.

I don't necessarily think this project was a scam, or that the brothers pocketed any of the money (Although it would be interesting to see records of where the money went). However, people should have seen from the pre-release media (photos, stories, test reels) whether or not this would have been worth their money. Heck, or even that fact that they were putting money towards a trailer, not even a full-fledged film. In the end, was this underwhelming? IMO, yes it was. However, I knew this was coming from the beginning. Based on the information I saw early on.

[Pafupafu]

"Didn't steal" is actually the unfair accusation. A lot of people put their own money into this project based on lies from K&K. As I am particularly well-versed in this industry and know the normal costs of production expenses, I have every right to assume they are lying when they say they have not taken any of the funding for personal gain. I have seen the final product. I have seen K&K dodge and block any attempt by a human being to question both these copyright and personal profit issues. Innocent until proven guilty. Well, this final product, which does not in any way remotely reflect $15,000+ in expenses, has proven K&K guilty. Guilty of describing capabilities they simply do not have with a license they simply. do. not. have.

"Stole", is defined in two ways in this situation. They "stole" the rights of a well-known product for personal gain. And they "stole" funding from the general public by utilizing that same product as a means to advertise themselves in conjunction. Like I said previously, provide exact production expense receipts, until then they are frauds in my book. There have been award-winning independent films shot for around their budget, at full length. This is a joke to people who know the industry and actual costs of productions such as this.

"Didn't steal" is not unfair nor an accusation. Your evidence-less claims are not at all proof. Without seeing their own reports you can't know where the money was spent, nor if they pocketed any of it. Perhaps since they lack your expert experience, they weren't able to spend the money as wisely as you would have. That isn't proof of theft.

The evidence to support my opinion is quite easily explained. Which should help because it seems there is a disconnect in communicating my point to you.

K&K illegally used the brand of Dragon Ball Z for personal profit (Could be monetary or obviously, exposure). This is considered stealing. When someone creates something, copyrights it, and then someone else utilizes it without permission: this is considered stealing.

Now, when it comes to actual funds that were obtained illegally by K&K through IndieGoGo: There is no monitoring of where these funds have gone. There is simply only the number (funds) and the result (final product). Now in between these two was a LOT of inquiries by users of this site, other sites such as YouTube etc. as to whether K&K was aware of copyright infringement and their misuse of IndieGoGo. On EACH occasion, all inquiries were met with complete and utter negative reactions and backlash from K&K, resulting in multiple accounts being blocked from their own. It has now become known that K&K is FULLY aware that they broke the law and decided to post the video publicly regardless (see Derek's comments)

You may be naive in thinking that since they said they would not take any profit that therefore: they didn't take any profit. However, let's consider that K&K has ALREADY broken the law in copyright terms as well as admitted to this violation and went forward regardless. Let's consider that legally, every single word that they have said since this project's inception has been a violation of the property of DragonBall and its rightful owners. Now let's also consider that the final video is released and open for the public to see. If you simply were aware of the prices for software and the capabilities of actual low-end production companies, you would laugh at their claims that this is ALL of the budget.

But, let's say you're right, and they did spend $15,000 on this piece. I can humor that. I'm sure the first people K&K hired were...themselves! (cough profit cough). The fact of the matter is, even if you are right, even if K&K truly spent over $15,000 on this 5-minute video, it does not change the FACT that they are guilty of copyright infringement and fraudulent schemes.

[Saiga]

What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not talking about the copyright. It's irrelevant to the claim that K&K have stolen the donation money and given themselves a profit out of it.

You keep talking about the evidence and proof without actually providing evidence or proof. I have no reason to believe you without these things. You can't possibly know how much the money was spent, because even if you can think of a way to produce a similar trailer for a much lower cost, they could have done things differently, less efficiently, and more expensively. You can't know that it's impossible for a trailer to cost this much.

You're also ignoring that it wasn't just donation money that went into this, but also some of their own money.

[Avenged]

Pafupafu, although some of your statements are accurate and within reason, you are seriously a broken record.

[Pafupafu]

Pafupafu, although some of your statements are accurate and within reason, you are seriously a broken record.

Yeah, that's not appreciated. You've been biased throughout this entire project and have actually supported it on your wonky little website. So...moving on...