Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[TonyTheTiger]

I will just respectfully disagree with you and not broach the subject again with you because you have made up your mind without reading anything I have written.

Or I have read everything you've written and it's, ya know, not particularly good or convincing. But I guess you've made up your mind about what I've done or not done.

For what it's worth, you're not new to me. I never posted but I was lurking the Death Battle comments section during the height of the Goku vs. Superman anticipation and for a while after its premiere. I've read everything you've written. And it's no good. I'm sorry but it just isn't. What you've posted here reflects it. I commend you for the effort since it's obviously a lot of work but it features not only bad information (such as the 180,000kg thing) but poorly thought out conclusions. The fact that you felt the need to come here a full two months after the video premiered tells me you're now grasping at straws trying to do your best to surround yourself with like-minded people and find any Dragon Ball fans who will, and I'll quote one of the resident experts, "personally validate your sore asshole." I can only assume you haven't found many. That should be a good hint that, regardless of how long or complicated, your analysis is, I'm sorry to say, just plain wrong while the Death Battle you have such a problem with is right, or at bare minimum more tenable than you give it credit for.

[Kakarot88]

Classy. 777 people have reccomended it, enjoy what I wrote and agree with me so far.


Like minded fans? I was just hopin for a forum where ppl knew DBZ well enough that I didn't need to post scans for proof.

I did not use the graviton at all in my blog. Thanks for reading, oh wait no guess you didn't.

I thought the scan was accurate cuz I did the math rough shod in my head when posting on this forum and 180,000 lbs rather than 18tons seemed comparable I never claimed perfection without a calculator.

If you actually knew both characters you'd have known about superman, DC, and light speed limitations.

It really is dumb it has been 2 months I agree with you there.

[valfranx]

and as I had predicted Kakarot88 friend, have not yet understood that the reason for his criticisms are not about who should win the crossover, more misinformation that will follow going forward. something that could be corrected in a future death battle to improve the quality of the show, going forward, because if we do not correct these errors, will use, the same misinformation, for a future , crossover, not just db, more misinformation of all series, so as occurred in the shadow vs vegeta, a misinformation , that could be used in a future sonic vs another character. more for a program that seeks only entertainment, it should be too much to ask for them.


if you really want answers and simulation serious, created in 2D animation wait for the pre-crisis superman vs goku, which will appear here in youtube in few months.

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just pointing out that you aren't revealing anything new. I don't know what the Superman experts did but from what I understand the Dragon Ball experts combed pretty much every nook and cranny of published material as well as pointing out well known "facts" that are actually translation inconsistencies. So it's awfully strange to see somebody making counter arguments based on translated material and waving it in the faces of people who have already looked over that stuff in Japanese.

As for everything else, this is the kind of comparison that could literally fill hours worth of video. Both Goku and Post-Crisis Superman have nearly 30 years worth of content to cover, ranging from common knowledge to wildly obscure. And there are probably tons of different ways to measure the numbers of feats that are incredibly vague thanks to the writers either not caring about the numbers or just plain getting them wrong. This is entertainment first and foremost so approaching it like an episode of Nova is already treading dangerously close to "arbitrary." The best you can hope for is to pick a sensible train of thought and follow it through, extrapolating as much as possible from whatever information we know for absolute certain or have sufficient evidence to believe (ex: Superman survived a supernova, Goku failed to lift 40 tons of weight, Gero's bomb could blow up the Earth, etc.) and then making educated guesses based on pure logic (ex: Goku could not have been close to light speed on Namek because of the subsequent Instant Transmission reveal). Can two different people get different sets of numbers this way? Sure. And it's fine to debate over one number vs. another. But the second you start talking about the Death Battle, something that was extremely logical whether you want to admit it or not, as if it were a complete sham, it makes you look less like someone interested in finding the truth and more like someone who's...well...butthurt. And the fight is so one sided that nothing changes the outcome anyway since no matter how strong someone calculates Goku, a fair and logically consistent look at Superman would keep him far ahead (ex: If Gero's bomb can destroy the Earth based solely on Bulma's word, then Superman can survive 15 supernovas point blank to the face according to Coldcast's word).

As for the light speed thing, one reason Superman tends to hold back his speed is because unlike the Flash he doesn't have the Speed Force to protect his surroundings from danger. It's confirmed that Superman can move many times faster than light but there are good reasons why he doesn't do it, even in an emergency. Doing so could create a bigger emergency. The Flash doesn't have this problem. If you want to start arguing that Superman's speed doesn't help him in a fight then be my guest. But not only is that a silly assertion (Goku actually has to be able to hit him, after all), it doesn't make much of a difference. The Speed Force isn't really an issue here. Yes, it's the epitome of deus ex machina. It can do pretty much anything it needs to. As a result, the Flash is arguably even more broken than Superman. So Superman doesn't have all those benefits, fine. But it's not speed that's going to win this fight. I'd argue that was the least important stat up for debate in this matchup. What makes Superman so dominant in a straight up death match is the fact that he's practically unkillable. Forget his speed. Forget his strength. Forget his heat vision. What you have is a Death Battle in which one of the participants practically cannot die by ordinary means. Sure, with enough power behind it pure concussive force could potentially kill him but it's literally the least efficient way to do it and there's no evidence that Goku can generate the requisite amount. And since Goku lacks the kind of reality warping or unconventional powers that could bypass that clownshit durability, he's already at a major disadvantage. If anything, I'd argue that against Superman the Kienzan is the best tool in Goku's entire arsenal provided it literally can cut "anything." But even then we have to deal with filler that nerfed the shit out of the thing.

[theawesomepossum777]

Ahem. Funny how the OP of this thread (that being me) hasn't even said anything about the actual battle. I agree with the outcome with my only problem being that Screwattack didn't even really try to power scale Goku. I mean, first-form Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta's planet core without even trying. Now to get on something a little off-topic, how would Son Goku rank among all of the other Death Battle fighters?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Ahem. Funny how the OP of this thread (that being me) hasn't even said anything about the actual battle. I agree with the outcome with my only problem being that Screwattack didn't even really try to power scale Goku. I mean, first-form Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta's planet core without even trying. Now to get on something a little off-topic, how would Son Goku rank among all of the other Death Battle fighters?

Well Goku could take most of them, however, Shadow, Sonic, and Spawn would easily stomp Goku. Now I'm sure you're wondering how Shadow and Sonic would win since Shadow failed to beat Vegeta in Death Battle. Well I'm gonna be blunt and say that result was wrong. Shadow the Hedgehog is an OP motherf***er along with Sonic. Super Shadow once tangled with an Omnipresent God who can eat entire universes for lunch. Shadow is also accompanied by many haxed abilities with his chaos control. He can freeze time, alter space, and even warp you to different locations. Now this is just video game Shadow. Archie Shadow has managed to irritate a nigh Omnipotent God with his chaos blast.... in his base form.... Sonic characters rank way up there, they rival high end Marvel and DC characters.

'

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

I remember reading, on this thread, that Ben said they won't do a Battle Royale because it would come down to Superman, Goku and Spawn. Spawn would win though because he can only be hurt by godly weapons.

[CaBrPi]

I remember reading, on this thread, that Ben said they won't do a Battle Royale because it would come down to Superman, Goku and Spawn. Spawn would win though because he can only be hurt by godly weapons.

So, like, the Genki Dama?

[dario03]

I still say Thor would be up there and Kratos maybe would if he had his full god powers (but I'm just guessing with him).

[dbzfan7]

I agree with the final 3 Ben said. As I said a page earlier it would come down to Supes vs Spawn.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

I remember reading, on this thread, that Ben said they won't do a Battle Royale because it would come down to Superman, Goku and Spawn. Spawn would win though because he can only be hurt by godly weapons.

So, like, the Genki Dama?

I don't know, I doubt it, the Genki Dama just takes the spirit part of ki from trees, the sun, animals, and people. I wonder if Birusu could kill Spawn, he's a god.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I still say Thor would be up there and Kratos maybe would if he had his full god powers (but I'm just guessing with him).

Oh yeah I forgot about Thor. Yeah he would beat Goku too.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Thor would beat Goku too, not Kratos though. Goku would speed blitz him.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Thor would beat Goku too, not Kratos though. Goku would speed blitz him.

Yeah Kraros is an overrated punk. I honestly don't see what people see in him =/.

[Rocketman]

Kratos can lift the Earth. Hercules lifted the Earth from Atlas' shoulders so the Titan could retrieve the Apples of the Hesperides, and Kratos overpowered Hercules.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

I remember Hercules lifting the arena and Kratos punching it down on him after being thrown off, also at this time Hercules was extremely fatigued and was stabbed in his arm before. I don't think there's a chance in hell he could pick up the earth, maybe he could, but I don't thinks so. DB isnt that good on strength to be honest, but striking feats are a different matter. What's the best striking feat in DB anyway? Is it Bootenks punching a ki blast through earth?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kratos can lift the Earth. Hercules lifted the Earth from Atlas' shoulders so the Titan could retrieve the Apples of the Hesperides, and Kratos overpowered Hercules.

Even if Kratos could, he would still pale in comparison to even the likes of Freeza. Freeza can destroy Planet Vegeta without even trying in his first form and that planet has 10x Earths gravity.

[TonyTheTiger]

My gut instinct is that at these levels it mostly comes down to durability. Barring reality warping shenanigans, when both competitors can freely shatter planets it becomes a contest over who can tank the most.

[TheMightyOzaru]

My gut instinct is that at these levels it mostly comes down to durability. Barring reality warping shenanigans, when both competitors can freely shatter planets it becomes a contest over who can tank the most.

What can Kratos tank? I know Goku can tank attacks that can destroy planets more than 5,000x bigger than Earth as a SSJ on Namek.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Kratos wouldn't even touch Goku, from what I remember Kratos isn't fast at all, and hasn't done anything to show he's anywhere near planet busting level.