Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by IHaveNoUserName » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:38 pm

KBABZ, I saw your 1st chapters and it's pretty good but do you have any idea when you will finish it, just wondering
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by KBABZ » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:05 pm

IHaveNoUserName wrote:KBABZ, I saw your 1st chapters and it's pretty good but do you have any idea when you will finish it, just wondering
I've already "finished" it once, but only using Blue Brick footage, and it isn't as concise as Dragon Ball Recut, so I'm redoing it using the Dragon Box footage and observing Recut for further edits I can make. Of that, I'm up to Goku vs Jackie Chun, but a footage issue has caused problems. That aside, I work on it in my spare time after work and when I'm not playing new video games like FighterZ and Shadow of the Colossus.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by IHaveNoUserName » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:26 pm

KBABZ wrote:
IHaveNoUserName wrote:KBABZ, I saw your 1st chapters and it's pretty good but do you have any idea when you will finish it, just wondering
I've already "finished" it once, but only using Blue Brick footage, and it isn't as concise as Dragon Ball Recut, so I'm redoing it using the Dragon Box footage and observing Recut for further edits I can make. Of that, I'm up to Goku vs Jackie Chun, but a footage issue has caused problems. That aside, I work on it in my spare time after work and when I'm not playing new video games like FighterZ and Shadow of the Colossus.
Oh well I can't wait to see more samples until the first chapters is released
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by KBABZ » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:14 pm

IHaveNoUserName wrote:Oh well I can't wait to see more samples until the first chapters is released
If you want something in the meantime I highly recommend Dragon Ball Recut, which is basically this without the "I'm gonna make it like DBZ Kai!" stuff.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by IHaveNoUserName » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:06 pm

KBABZ wrote:
IHaveNoUserName wrote:Oh well I can't wait to see more samples until the first chapters is released
If you want something in the meantime I highly recommend Dragon Ball Recut, which is basically this without the "I'm gonna make it like DBZ Kai!" stuff.
Alright, Ill check it out
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by DBSEng » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:47 pm

Where can I find the Pilaf Saga of the project?
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by linkdude20002001 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:17 am

I hate that you changed the "BALL" in the logo to be red like Funimation's abomination... For me, their logo is a harsh reminder of their reversioning, even on products like Bandai Namco's videogames. :/

That aside... Now that I've gotten to the text of your post, I... Well, I was going to say "I'm super excited!", but is this only for Funimation's reversioning? This is a cool project idea, but unless it got a redub, it wouldn't really be a Like-the-author-originally-envisiond Version like Kai was for DBZ. To be fair, I must admit that even Toei was too lazy to even bother redrawing any scenes that differd from the comic. So without either a redub or this being based on the Japanese version with English subtitles, I don't understand its purpose.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by Scsigs » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:21 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:I hate that you changed the "BALL" in the logo to be red like Funimation's abomination... For me, their logo is a harsh reminder of their reversioning, even on products like Bandai Namco's videogames. :/

That aside... Now that I've gotten to the text of your post, I... Well, I was going to say "I'm super excited!", but is this only for Funimation's reversioning? This is a cool project idea, but unless it got a redub, it wouldn't really be a Like-the-author-originally-envisiond Version like Kai was for DBZ. To be fair, I must admit that even Toei was too lazy to even bother redrawing any scenes that differd from the comic. So without either a redub or this being based on the Japanese version with English subtitles, I don't understand its purpose.
This person stated from the outset that it was based on the dub for the audio, since FUNi's dub, while not a perfect translation, is still better than the Z dub.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by linkdude20002001 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:32 pm

I realize, but it doesn't say that in the title or in the first sentence. Thus my "I was going to say 'I'm super excited!'" line. I was excited up till I got to the second sentence, and then I was filld with disappointment.
Also, calling Funimation's dub a "translation" is being too generous. In every episode that I watcht in English with subtitles turnd on, the two were rarely similar. Yes, it's LESS bad than their dub of DBZ, but that doesn't make it a GOOD English dub. Fans have screamd out about the "atrocities" of English dubs that are far more faithful to the Japanese script than DB is.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:18 am

DBSEng wrote:Where can I find the Pilaf Saga of the project?
I haven't uploaded it, and won't until I have the whole thing done. I do have some edit samples up on YouTube though!
linkdude20002001 wrote:I hate that you changed the "BALL" in the logo to be red like Funimation's abomination... For me, their logo is a harsh reminder of their reversioning, even on products like Bandai Namco's videogames. :/
I did that as an allusion to its origins: an edit of the Funi dub. It also makes the logo more distinct from the official ones to avoid confusion (which is also why I went with an orange subtitle). One detail I also did was make the O in Dragon match the Funi logo as well.
linkdude20002001 wrote:That aside... Now that I've gotten to the text of your post, I... Well, I was going to say "I'm super excited!", but is this only for Funimation's reversioning? This is a cool project idea, but unless it got a redub, it wouldn't really be a Like-the-author-originally-envisiond Version like Kai was for DBZ. To be fair, I must admit that even Toei was too lazy to even bother redrawing any scenes that differd from the comic. So without either a redub or this being based on the Japanese version with English subtitles, I don't understand its purpose.
I'm sticking to the dub for a few reasons. 1) My true passion lies in this dub as it's what got me exposed to Dragon Ball. I have a huge amount of respect for the Japanese original, but ultimately I don't have much emotional attachment to that version of the anime. 2) It's easier to work with in the audio, since the dub is in 5.1 and allows me to make many edits such as removing music or dialogue, as well as making new scene transitions go much more smoothly, most of which isn't possible with the Japanese mono audio. And 3) It helps limit the scope of the project. It's already ballooned into something way bigger than I originally intended (Dragon Box footage, evolving Japanese openings and credits, edited eyecatches with the new logo, and brand new credits text for each and every episode that has to be cross-checked with both the Japanese and English versions). I don't intend to make subtitles for it for this very reason.

As for the "like-the-author-originally-envisioned" part, obviously I can't 100% adhere to that due to the scripting, but then, did the Official Kais do that 100% of the time as well? They still kept things like alluding to King Cold being more powerful than Frieza, something that isn't in the manga. To me the real spirit and benefit of Kai is not just being closer to the manga, but having the brevity of the manga and not having such needless amounts of filler and padding.

As you can probably tell by this point, this is a personal project for me that appeals to my tastes in the OG Dragon Ball anime, and my own motivation has gotten me pretty far at this point (fan motivation is getting me through the Dragon Box second take on it). That being said, if you want a Japanese version of what I'm doing, I highly recommend checking out IAmTheMilkMan's Dragon Ball Recut thread, which was done predominantly in Japanese and best of all, is finished!

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by linkdude20002001 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:40 am

KBABZ wrote:I did that as an allusion to its origins: an edit of the Funi dub. It also makes the logo more distinct from the official ones to avoid confusion (which is also why I went with an orange subtitle). One detail I also did was make the O in Dragon match the Funi logo as well.

I'm sticking to the dub for a few reasons. 1) My true passion lies in this dub as it's what got me exposed to Dragon Ball. I have a huge amount of respect for the Japanese original, but ultimately I don't have much emotional attachment to that version of the anime. 2) It's easier to work with in the audio, since the dub is in 5.1 and allows me to make many edits such as removing music or dialogue, as well as making new scene transitions go much more smoothly, most of which isn't possible with the Japanese mono audio. And 3) It helps limit the scope of the project. It's already ballooned into something way bigger than I originally intended (Dragon Box footage, evolving Japanese openings and credits, edited eyecatches with the new logo, and brand new credits text for each and every episode that has to be cross-checked with both the Japanese and English versions). I don't intend to make subtitles for it for this very reason.

As for the "like-the-author-originally-envisioned" part, obviously I can't 100% adhere to that due to the scripting, but then, did the Official Kais do that 100% of the time as well? They still kept things like alluding to King Cold being more powerful than Frieza, something that isn't in the manga. To me the real spirit and benefit of Kai is not just being closer to the manga, but having the brevity of the manga and not having such needless amounts of filler and padding.

As you can probably tell by this point, this is a personal project for me that appeals to my tastes in the OG Dragon Ball anime, and my own motivation has gotten me pretty far at this point (fan motivation is getting me through the Dragon Box second take on it). That being said, if you want a Japanese version of what I'm doing, I highly recommend checking out IAmTheMilkMan's Dragon Ball Recut thread, which was done predominantly in Japanese and best of all, is finished!
Well, I may not approve of it, but you certainly did a good job with it. And it does make sense (I think) to use it since your project is only for the English version. The "I think" is becuz technically the English dub uses the original Japanese logo. They didn't replace it in the opening like they did with DBGT. So it's weird they even made a new logo that's ONLY for the packaging of the product...

Yeah, I can certainly see how it'd be easier. And it seems like you're putting in a great deal of effort, what with using Dragon Box footage and...what is it you're doing exactly with the credits? Making unique credits for each episode like Japan had, and not leaving out all the staff who made the show? If so, that's absolutely fantastic! Also if so, then you should also add in yourself to the credits. Usually people put their mark right next to the logo in the opening, which is quite tacky, but then others don't give themselves any well-deserved credit whatsoever. :0 It's most unfortunate that it isn't some-thing I'd be able to watch and enjoy.

Yeah, Toei really got lazy with Kai. But they're lazy in general, or perhaps greedy is the better word. "Less effort, more profit"... :/ The brievity of it is a nice factor too, but for me, it goes hand-in-hand with "following the comic more closely".

Thanks for the tip. I'll check out Dragon Ball Recut and see if it's any good. I can only hope he put as much love and care into it as you.
The Many English Dubs of DB, DBZ, and DBGT
Viz Release Censorship Guide

Scsigs: "Y'know, it actually makes sense that they waited till today to announce [the 30th Anniversary] set. It's Akira Toriyama's birthday."
Shaddy: "I too want my legacy destroyed as a birthday gift."

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:34 am

linkdude20002001 wrote:Well, I may not approve of it, but you certainly did a good job with it. And it does make sense (I think) to use it since your project is only for the English version. The "I think" is becuz technically the English dub uses the original Japanese logo. They didn't replace it in the opening like they did with DBGT. So it's weird they even made a new logo that's ONLY for the packaging of the product...
Yeah. I did consider commissioning someone to repaint the background while I did my own work on the animated solar flares around the sun, flying Dragon Balls, and the new logo flying in... but on top of the funny yellow outline on the sun that's animated, I decided to leave it as-is. The logo was likely replaced in GT because A) the original FUNi one was Step Into the Grand Tour anyways, and B) The original Dan Dan intro begins with a static starfield background and a basic transition, so it's a cinch to replace it.
linkdude20002001 wrote:Yeah, I can certainly see how it'd be easier. And it seems like you're putting in a great deal of effort, what with using Dragon Box footage and...what is it you're doing exactly with the credits? Making unique credits for each episode like Japan had, and not leaving out all the staff who made the show? If so, that's absolutely fantastic! Also if so, then you should also add in yourself to the credits. Usually people put their mark right next to the logo in the opening, which is quite tacky, but then others don't give themselves any well-deserved credit whatsoever. :0 It's most unfortunate that it isn't some-thing I'd be able to watch and enjoy.
In regards to the credits, I'm following the example set by Kai by having dual Dub and Japanese production credits, using the information in both of their original credits (I use Kanzenshuu's episode guide for the Japanese credits), and matching the layout of the Japanese formatting (whilst also using the Kai credits style guide when it comes to the text). It isn't 100% the original Japanese credits as there's no way to fit them all in, but it does mean that I can credit the original Japanese cast, even if they aren't even in T1C at all (with the exception of Masako Nozawa in the re-inserted Son Goku Song). When it comes to the opening, I left those in because it would be impossible to remove the Japanese credits from the second and third intros, plus it gives (unspoken) credit to much of the lead staff of the show. The credits list goes as follows, using the first arc credits backgrounds:
Some credits sections have plurals on them like the Directors; this is the main reason why I wanted to make new credits: so that when two episodes are combined into one, I can credit both episode's staff. It also allows me to properly credit edits including other's content, such as Akihito Tokunaga's The Path to Power score briefly showing up in Episode 1, or when I inserted Over the Star into the Bulma/Yamcha scene in the final episode of the Pilaf Arc. Here's some examples of the new credits (and the first eyecatch):
As you can tell by the samples, one of the other aspects I wanted to do on top of everything else is to embrace the show's age. I felt that the original Kai didn't do enough to make itself feel as old as the show actually was, hence why the opening, credits, eyecatches and redrawn shots feel so out of place. I put my name at the end because I didn't want my own creditation to spoil the main content of the show, and keep with the flow of the show. As you can probably guess, the Japanese names for the Animation Supervisors and Directors almost never match up due to me using the same credits footage every single time for consistency, but the English text underneath should cover for that.
linkdude20002001 wrote:Yeah, Toei really got lazy with Kai. But they're lazy in general, or perhaps greedy is the better word. "Less effort, more profit"... :/ The brievity of it is a nice factor too, but for me, it goes hand-in-hand with "following the comic more closely".
Brevity to me is a huge selling point because with just under 200 episodes, Z is a beast of a show to get into even discounting OG DB, and you really can't afford to be bumming around with Garlic Jr., crabs and InoShikaCho. Between that and the redone vocal performances, Kai was a no-brainer, and without it I wouldn't be here today with a reborn appreciation for Dragon Ball, not to mention everything on the Japanese side. OG Dragon Ball wasn't as egregious with the filler, but it was still there and simply skipping the filler arcs isn't enough; there are still episodes with lots of filler, such as The Penalty is Pinball and Tao Pai-Pai going up Korin's Tower. I wanted to make the original Dragon Ball's 2001 dub the best it can be when pivoting off to Kai.

As for the less effort, my main gripe with Kai is less that and more the money wasted on needless redrawn shots for things like minor continuity (like filling in the white in Goku's symbol patch). Major ones like Orange and Green Vegeta I understand and more cash should have been spent on those shots and the ones needed to erase any filler. Arguably the best of the redrawn shots is in the DB recap where Goku takes out Piccolo at the Tournament!
linkdude20002001 wrote:Thanks for the tip. I'll check out Dragon Ball Recut and see if it's any good. I can only hope he put as much love and care into it as you.
Aw, thank you! If you want to see some of my favourite edits from the Pilaf arc, check out this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 6y6O-FEjeb

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:46 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:technically the English dub uses the original Japanese logo. They didn't replace it in the opening like they did with DBGT. So it's weird they even made a new logo that's ONLY for the packaging of the product...
Oh, one thing I remembered just now is that while FUNimation did make their own logo, it's visually very similar to the early logo used for the manga, so it's associated with that era of the story:

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by Diccolo-420 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:10 pm

So I have a question for you:

One of my gripes with recut is that it cut out way too many comedic moments, particularly some of the greatest Roshi perv moments. I'm hoping you'll keep at least some of those in this version?

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by KBABZ » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:23 pm

Diccolo-420 wrote:So I have a question for you:

One of my gripes with recut is that it cut out way too many comedic moments, particularly some of the greatest Roshi perv moments. I'm hoping you'll keep at least some of those in this version?
Nope, I find Roshi's antics to be embarrassing, almost always disgusting and easily the part of the franchise that has aged the worst; none of it is at all funny to me. I've only kept the ones that appear in the manga itself, and those I try to edit down to being only the panels and lines seen in the manga, where possible. Sorry, but that's how it is; T1C is edited to my own tastes because it started out as a just-for-me project that I would hope to share with other Dragon Ball fans.

Funnily enough one of the earlier instances has a rare example of me directly editing the footage; at the 21st Tournament, Bulma socks Roshi for trying to get her into a tight TB shirt, and he wears a band-aid cross over his jaw for the rest of the scene, which bleeds into a manga scene where he gives Goku and Krillin a pep talk before they enter the preliminaries. There are only two shots of Roshi's front in that scene, and the first, a wide shot, has a continuity error where he doesn't have the bandage! The second is a close-up, but since the bandage is on his flat white beard, it was easy for me to use Photoshop's content-aware fill to remove it, and thus there's no evidence the prior Bulma scene even happened.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:11 am

Good idea. Although "The 1st Chapters" is a bit of a cheap copy from the official The Final Chapters so "The Younger Years" would have been better.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by Scsigs » Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:40 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Good idea. Although "The 1st Chapters" is a bit of a cheap copy from the official The Final Chapters so "The Younger Years" would have been better.
Did it not occur to you that that was the point?
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:20 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Good idea. Although "The 1st Chapters" is a bit of a cheap copy from the official The Final Chapters so "The Younger Years" would have been better.
I'm 99.9% sure that was intentional.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai: The 1st Chapters [PILAF DONE!]

Post by eternalsage » Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:06 pm

Just wanted to add my 2 zeni. While I am in love with DB Recut, I would be very happy to have the Kai treatment throughout. I can't wait to see what you come up with. I know that fan-edits are hard work, so I really hope you don't burn yourself out. Thank you for all the hard work.
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