Fanfic writers villifying...

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Cure Dragon 255
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Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:18 am

YAMCHA?

What?

Tv Tropes has a whole section where villified DB characters (Ron The Death Eater) are catalogued...and an astounding amount goes to villifying poor Yamcha. I wont complain about this but its remarkable and worthy of discussion. Why is this so?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... DeathEater
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19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:26 am

Maybe they really like BulmaxVegeta
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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:42 am

I know I know. But they already are together, they dont need to Villainize him like that. Why do they need to shit on him like that?
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Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
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19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:20 am

Overt vilifying, as far as I've experienced it, usually comes up in shipping stories where the other side has to look as shitty as possible to make the one true pairing look extra good.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by GamerSkull » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:51 am

I find it quite disgusting, especially since Yamcha already gets the short end of the stick constantly and is actually a very likeable person at the very least. :sick:

To be honest, if VegeBul need to make act this way in order to make their pairing look better... it makes me think they are insecure about it. If the ship needs the villyfing of another character in order to make it more likeable... then the ship has failed.

For the way Toriyama treated Yamcha, at least I can be glad he never did anything like this to him. :lolno:
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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:57 am

And just so we all can see the terribleness of these fics. Here are some!

Dragon Ball:
It Falls on Me has Yamcha dedicated to ruining Bulma's family name, plot to steal her wealth, and kill Vegeta. This is contradictory to canon in several ways; Yamcha is shown remaining on good terms with her after their breakup, it's stated in series that Yamcha is not interested in power or status, him entering the relationship (which was initiated by Bulma) before he knew of Bulma's wealth, and being one of the characters portrayed as more accepting of Vegeta.
Those Magical Three Years (once found here) does this same thing to Yamcha, turning him into an abusive drunk who apparently regularly cuts Bulma.
As does the story Breathe.
Repeat for Black and Blue.
The Highschool AU Teenage Drama has Yamcha attempt to to rape Bulma, in addition to "hearting" her.
Pain is Pleasure, by the same author as Teenage Drama, has Vegeta sense great evil in Yamcha.

LOL Vegeta "Sensing great evil in Yamcha" LAWL.
AnimeMaakuo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 am
Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by GamerSkull » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:44 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:And just so we all can see the terribleness of these fics. Here are some!

Dragon Ball:
It Falls on Me has Yamcha dedicated to ruining Bulma's family name, plot to steal her wealth, and kill Vegeta. This is contradictory to canon in several ways; Yamcha is shown remaining on good terms with her after their breakup, it's stated in series that Yamcha is not interested in power or status, him entering the relationship (which was initiated by Bulma) before he knew of Bulma's wealth, and being one of the characters portrayed as more accepting of Vegeta.
Those Magical Three Years (once found here) does this same thing to Yamcha, turning him into an abusive drunk who apparently regularly cuts Bulma.
As does the story Breathe.
Repeat for Black and Blue.
The Highschool AU Teenage Drama has Yamcha attempt to to rape Bulma, in addition to "hearting" her.
Pain is Pleasure, by the same author as Teenage Drama, has Vegeta sense great evil in Yamcha.

LOL Vegeta "Sensing great evil in Yamcha" LAWL.
Yeah, making a character that OCC just to make the other characters better is really bad. Especially since, if we're being perfectly honest, Bulma was more abusive in her relationship with Yamcha than he was... and we never actually see Yamcha doing any of the things she accuses him of.

And yeah... Vegeta is the last person that should be sensing evil in someone else. The irony of that. :lolno:

Extreme shippers are crazy.
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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by rereboy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:42 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:YAMCHA?

What?

Tv Tropes has a whole section where villified DB characters (Ron The Death Eater) are catalogued...and an astounding amount goes to villifying poor Yamcha. I wont complain about this but its remarkable and worthy of discussion. Why is this so?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... DeathEater
Most fan fiction is about guilty pleasures and self-fulfillment (of the author of the fic). In other words, they don't like Yamcha and thus take "pleasure" in portraying him badly, just like they would take pleasure in portraying a pairing that they are particularly fond of (like Goku x Vegeta). It's not really about making sense in regard to the original.

Of course, the best fanfics usually are beyond that.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:09 am

Yeah so many Vegebul fics vilify Yamcha and paint him as this evil absuive cheating ex that pushes poor vunerable Bulma into her savior (Vegeta).

Get fuckin real. :roll: :lolno:

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by LightBing » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:16 am

Yamcha did start as a villain he was going to let Goku, Oolong and Bulma die in the desert. That's one good reason. Another is him cheating on Bulma.
There's some seeds to develop that perspective.

Of course the point of one being the writer is to make anything you want happen, if people want to hate on Yamcha or any other character it's their right. If it's well done now that's another story.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by Michsi » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:22 am

I don't read DB fanfics or fanfics in general, but I did try some a million years ago, and one of the things that I found annoying was excessive self-indulgence. Vilifying a character that the writer doesn't like to the point there is barely any resemblance left between the original and the fic version is one of the worst aspects of fanworks, and shipping-related especially bias can get really unpleasant .

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:50 am

LightBing wrote:Yamcha did start as a villain he was going to let Goku, Oolong and Bulma die in the desert. That's one good reason. Another is him cheating on Bulma.
There's some seeds to develop that perspective.

Of course the point of one being the writer is to make anything you want happen, if people want to hate on Yamcha or any other character it's their right. If it's well done now that's another story.
Except he didn’t cheat on Bulma. The only persons wors we have is Trunks. And Bulma exaggerating and turning things into something they weren’t is definitely up her alley.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by rereboy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:58 am

LightBing wrote:Yamcha did start as a villain he was going to let Goku, Oolong and Bulma die in the desert. That's one good reason. Another is him cheating on Bulma.
There's some seeds to develop that perspective.

Of course the point of one being the writer is to make anything you want happen, if people want to hate on Yamcha or any other character it's their right. If it's well done now that's another story.

Even if Yamcha did cheat on Bulma, Bulma is shown in the series to be interested in other men and apparently willing to cheat far more often than Yamcha. I mean, Bulma, while in Namek to revive her friends and her love interest (Yamcha), was perfectly willing to throw herself to Zarbon, who she knew was an enemy, just because he looked hot to her. Therefore, the point is moot. And I'm pretty sure she never said any of that to Trunks.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by LightBing » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:59 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
LightBing wrote:Yamcha did start as a villain he was going to let Goku, Oolong and Bulma die in the desert. That's one good reason. Another is him cheating on Bulma.
There's some seeds to develop that perspective.

Of course the point of one being the writer is to make anything you want happen, if people want to hate on Yamcha or any other character it's their right. If it's well done now that's another story.
Except he didn’t cheat on Bulma. The only persons wors we have is Trunks. And Bulma exaggerating and turning things into something they weren’t is definitely up her alley.
Yeah I don't like that at all, it's fine to argue that characters might not be truthful but in this case it's straightforward. The author is telling us what happened it's as simple as that. You can't have that type of intrigue in this story and Mr.Toriyama for sure doesn't care about it.

Anyway here you go from this interview: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ru-furuya/

Speaking of Yamcha, he was dumped by Bulma, wasn’t he?
That was a shock. I often spoke with Hiromi Tsuru-san, who plays Bulma; both she and I thought Bulma and Yamcha would end up together. And for Vegeta, of all people! It really was a shock. So when I met with Toriyama-sensei, I complained, “Why did it have to be like this?!” Then Toriyama-sensei said, “Come on; Yamcha’s a cheater.” (laughs)

Yeah, he's a cheater.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by rereboy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:06 pm

LightBing wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:
LightBing wrote:Yamcha did start as a villain he was going to let Goku, Oolong and Bulma die in the desert. That's one good reason. Another is him cheating on Bulma.
There's some seeds to develop that perspective.

Of course the point of one being the writer is to make anything you want happen, if people want to hate on Yamcha or any other character it's their right. If it's well done now that's another story.
Except he didn’t cheat on Bulma. The only persons wors we have is Trunks. And Bulma exaggerating and turning things into something they weren’t is definitely up her alley.
Yeah I don't like that at all, it's fine to argue that characters might not be truthful but in this case it's straightforward. The author is telling us what happened it's as simple as that. You can't have that type of intrigue in this story and Mr.Toriyama for sure doesn't care about it.

Anyway here you go from this interview: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ru-furuya/

Speaking of Yamcha, he was dumped by Bulma, wasn’t he?
That was a shock. I often spoke with Hiromi Tsuru-san, who plays Bulma; both she and I thought Bulma and Yamcha would end up together. And for Vegeta, of all people! It really was a shock. So when I met with Toriyama-sensei, I complained, “Why did it have to be like this?!” Then Toriyama-sensei said, “Come on; Yamcha’s a cheater.” (laughs)

Yeah, he's a cheater.
Like I said above, that point is moot. The series shows more of Bulma trying to cheat than Yamcha, so, at worst, Yamcha is no worse than Bulma, and at best, Bulma is definitely worse than Yamcha, even if he did cheat.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by LightBing » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:22 pm

rereboy wrote:Like I said above, that point is moot. The series shows more of Bulma trying to cheat than Yamcha, so, at worst, Yamcha is no worse than Bulma, and at best, Bulma is definitely worse than Yamcha, even if he did cheat.
My point is that Yamcha is a cheater which is what was being disputed. What does Bulma matter to this conversation? Her potentially also being a cheater has no influence, it just makes them both bad people. And if you think one being worse might justify the other wrong-doing than that's an awful World-view to have.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:22 pm

LightBing wrote: Yeah, he's a cheater.
So if Toriyama came out and said some shit like Freeza just wants to be best friends with Goku, or Vegeta is actually a mutated Namekian, we'd have to believe it? Why? Just because he said it? The quote is moot if it contradicts what's shown in the show. Death of the Author.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by LightBing » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:28 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
LightBing wrote: Yeah, he's a cheater.
So if Toriyama came out and said some shit like Freeza just wants to be best friends with Goku, or Vegeta is actually a mutated Namekian, we'd have to believe it? Why? Just because he said it? The quote is moot if it contradicts what's shown in the show. Death of the Author.
Of course not but that isn't the case here. There's no contradiction.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by rereboy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:33 pm

LightBing wrote:
rereboy wrote:Like I said above, that point is moot. The series shows more of Bulma trying to cheat than Yamcha, so, at worst, Yamcha is no worse than Bulma, and at best, Bulma is definitely worse than Yamcha, even if he did cheat.
My point is that Yamcha is a cheater which is what was being disputed. What does Bulma matter to this conversation? Her potentially also being a cheater has no influence, it just makes them both bad people. And if you think one being worse might justify the other wrong-doing than that's an awful World-view to have.
What was being discussed was Yamcha being vilified in fanfiction. Yamcha cheating is not a sufficient moral reason to focus the "evil eye" on him since he does no worse than the person he cheated on did to him. Heck, most of the time he is vilified to make Bulma and Vegeta look better, when, in truth, Bulma was at least as bad as him and Vegeta was a literal genocidal killer.

Also, if you really want to go there, I'll point out I don't engage in absolutes. Saying that cheating = bad person is an equivalency that doesn't conform to the real world with all its factors and intricacies. But I never meant to go there, actually. I was just pointing out that Yamcha being a cheater is a moot point as far as moral justifications go to vilify him in fanfiction.
Last edited by rereboy on Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Fanfic writers villifying...

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:34 pm

LightBing wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:
LightBing wrote: Yeah, he's a cheater.
So if Toriyama came out and said some shit like Freeza just wants to be best friends with Goku, or Vegeta is actually a mutated Namekian, we'd have to believe it? Why? Just because he said it? The quote is moot if it contradicts what's shown in the show. Death of the Author.
Of course not but that isn't the case here. There's no contradiction.
Except there is. There's nothing implying that Yamcha would cheat, in fact implies the opposite when 1) Yamcha wanted to get married 2) toriyama mentioned in a different interview that he's still shy around girls and got fired from an escort/bodyguard job because of it. Both interviews cannot be true.

Back to the Bulma point, she'd cry and moan about Yamcha cheating when girls flirted with him and/or he so much as looked at someone. Despite flirting with every handsome guy she sees and expresses looking for an upgrade. Bulma's super insecure, and insane jealous streaks really discredit her point.

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