Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

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miguelnuva1
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Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:28 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF_tKgl ... e=youtu.be

I respect a lot of the videos he does but this one is arguing facts straight for the Manga.

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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:30 am

I saw it on my recommendations but didn't watch it as I'm really not all that interested in the subject.
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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:18 am

I saw it, and I understand where he is coming from, but I do think full power ssj3 Goku could beat fat Buu, as it was strongly implied he could have. If Goku got cocky he could be hit by a candy beam or get worn out and eventually lose, but as long as he takes the fight seriously he should win.

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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by TobyS » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:26 am

People point out Buus ki spiked a few times later, like before splitting. Perhaps goku would only have pushed him to power up or split.

He may still win even then but he may run out of energy or time alive while putting out the necessary power.

I actually think Goku made the right call passing the torch to the kids. Is my controversial take.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:37 pm

Toriyama makes two statements in the manga that FP ssj3 would have beat Buu and neither are contradicted seems open and shut to me

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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by Regarder » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:11 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama makes two statements in the manga that FP ssj3 would have beat Buu and neither are contradicted seems open and shut to me
But isn't the question whether Goku could go full power? Wouldn't he have used up all his time on Earth considering he was already burning through it super fast just playing around with Fat Buu and stalling him? Then later, when he's alive again he finds out that gathering his power to full as a SS3 doesn't work in a living body. Granted it's against Kid Buu in that case, but it's still going to be a problem.

There are two scenarios for "full power" SS3 Goku:
When dead (1): Uses up time that was already being burned rapidly just going SS3
When alive (2): He finds out he can't really do it in a living body yet.

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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:36 am

Regarder wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama makes two statements in the manga that FP ssj3 would have beat Buu and neither are contradicted seems open and shut to me
But isn't the question whether Goku could go full power? Wouldn't he have used up all his time on Earth considering he was already burning through it super fast just playing around with Fat Buu and stalling him? Then later, when he's alive again he finds out that gathering his power to full as a SS3 doesn't work in a living body. Granted it's against Kid Buu in that case, but it's still going to be a problem.

There are two scenarios for "full power" SS3 Goku:
When dead (1): Uses up time that was already being burned rapidly just going SS3
When alive (2): He finds out he can't really do it in a living body yet.
The thing about those two reasons are that they are placed there to prevent Goku from defeating Buu. If ssj3 couldn't handle Buu on it's own there would be no reason to place weakness on the form.

In the three times ssj3 confronts Buu a new weakness is created to prevent the person from killing Buu. Goku will run his time out on Earth, Gotenks's fusion time drops from 30 mins down to 5 and later Goku is clowning around and not going for the finish with Kid Buu.

I could be wrong but the way I see is if plot didn't weaken SSJ3 geekdom believes Goku still wouldn't win where as I see it if these weakness weren't created ssj3 would have Buu dead to rights. Maybe you can argue that Goku couldn't beat Kid Buu but He and Gotenks would have for sure finished off Majin and Super Buu.

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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by Regarder » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:29 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: The thing about those two reasons are that they are placed there to prevent Goku from defeating Buu. If ssj3 couldn't handle Buu on it's own there would be no reason to place weakness on the form.

In the three times ssj3 confronts Buu a new weakness is created to prevent the person from killing Buu. Goku will run his time out on Earth, Gotenks's fusion time drops from 30 mins down to 5 and later Goku is clowning around and not going for the finish with Kid Buu.

I could be wrong but the way I see is if plot didn't weaken SSJ3 geekdom believes Goku still wouldn't win where as I see it if these weakness weren't created ssj3 would have Buu dead to rights. Maybe you can argue that Goku couldn't beat Kid Buu but He and Gotenks would have for sure finished off Majin and Super Buu.
But in the case of Gotenks the plot weakness is that he messes around too much. It's in his character (though Buu may have been screwing with Gotenks in turn). In the case of Goku the plot weakness is that the harder he tries the less time he has to do it. It's in the form itself. In the end it comes down to whether you think with diminishing time and powering up more whether Goku could have unleashed an attack that would have completely vaporized Buu straight away not even leaving vapor, whether it would take him time to charge that he doesn't have without someone there to distract Buu, or whether Buu wouldn't just regenerate anyway. Goku could obviously beat the ever loving crap out of Fat Buu but would it actually be enough to get rid of him?

Only Vegetto definitively defeated Buu's regeneration, whereas for those lower levels it's a guess. Gotenks said he would blow Buu up, and maybe he could have, maybe not, but Buu definitely hints he's stronger than Gotenks when he says he sensed Gohan far off and was angry at someone being stronger than him, which kind of implies he was bluffing a fair bit against Gotenks and playing around.

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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by Geekdom101 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:32 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama makes two statements in the manga that FP ssj3 would have beat Buu and neither are contradicted seems open and shut to me
Toriyama? Or the CHARACTER of Goku.

Just like when any character says "i will not lose" and then they lose.


Come on now.


Bottom line, there is no way Super Saiyan 3 Goku could've beaten Fat Buu on West City.

1) He goes full power, runs out of time on Earth, can't win.
2) He doesn't and Buu outlasts him due to stamina.

I made that point in the video and it stands. You can fight with me like many others have - its fine - but nobody has been able to say A THING otherwise except "well Goku said so"
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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:05 pm

Geekdom101 wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama makes two statements in the manga that FP ssj3 would have beat Buu and neither are contradicted seems open and shut to me
Toriyama? Or the CHARACTER of Goku.

Just like when any character says "i will not lose" and then they lose.


Come on now.


Bottom line, there is no way Super Saiyan 3 Goku could've beaten Fat Buu on West City.

1) He goes full power, runs out of time on Earth, can't win.
2) He doesn't and Buu outlasts him due to stamina.

I made that point in the video and it stands. You can fight with me like many others have - its fine - but nobody has been able to say A THING otherwise except "well Goku said so"
Toriyama is using the character of Goku to get his point across, just like he uses Trunks to tell us the the Future Androids are weaker than the present ones. There is a difference between Goku saying I could have beat Buu and Frieza, Cell or Vegeta saying I won't lose as they are proven to lose after they make a statement. Goku's statement of I'll beat Buu is never proven false.

Goku doesn't need his FP ssj3 to beat Fat Buu as he is controlling the fight from start to finish, the way the fight plays out to me personally he is using more effort to not destroy Buu there.

I don't see Toriyama changing Goku telling Piccolo he can't win to later telling Vegeta he could have won if he didn't want to give the boys a chance if they wasn't the case.

Also I don't want to fight with you, I'll share my opinion and hope we can have a discussion as friends.

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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by MozillaVulpix » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:33 pm

Believing SSJ3 Goku could have killed Buu there means you have to believe Goku was willingly lying to everyone about how he couldn't win against him even before thinking about Gotenks and thinking that Gohan was dead, so I have trouble swallowing it anyway. It's an obvious retcon.

Either way it means that Goku was lying to other members of the cast for no apparent reason, so no matter what conclusion you reach, it doesn't look very good on him.
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Re: Anyone see Geekdom's ssj3 Goku couldn't beat Buu video?

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:52 pm

Geekdom101 wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama makes two statements in the manga that FP ssj3 would have beat Buu and neither are contradicted seems open and shut to me
Toriyama? Or the CHARACTER of Goku.

Just like when any character says "i will not lose" and then they lose.


Come on now.


Bottom line, there is no way Super Saiyan 3 Goku could've beaten Fat Buu on West City.

1) He goes full power, runs out of time on Earth, can't win.
2) He doesn't and Buu outlasts him due to stamina.

I made that point in the video and it stands. You can fight with me like many others have - its fine - but nobody has been able to say A THING otherwise except "well Goku said so"
Geekdom101, back in the Buu Saga, if Super Saiyan 3 Son Goku (Angel) had actually felt like it, he could have humiliated and defeated the so-called Innocent Buu, but didn't, because he wanted Trunks Brief and Son Goten to do the job for him instead, a similar case could be said for when Super Saiyan 3 Son Goku had the opportunity of avenging those Pure Buu (Base Form) had killed by having taken the Pink Demon seriously, and had gone all-out from the get-go, but chose not to, because he wanted Vegeta (Angel) to have his turn against Pure Buu (Base Form). As for both times Son Goku had went against his better judgement, he had ultimately paid the price for his stupidity when Super Buu (Base Form) had straight up murdered almost everyone he cared about and when the even more merciless Pure Buu (Base form) had finished the job Super Buu (Base Form) had left unfinished by using his Planet Burst to kill Son Gohan, Mr. Piccolo, Trunks Brief, Son Goten, and many more of the other surviving Earthlings by destroying the Earth. Yet even then, Son Goku had refused to let go of his very dangerous habit of almost never wanting to take any of his enemies, even his most dangerous ones, at all seriously. With this being one of his most defining traits that has nearly caused the complete and utter destruction of virtually all of existence of the Dragon World time and time again.

So to as to clarify, if it wasn't for Son Goku being so horrible at trying to pass the torch to the next generation of warriors like how he had done with Son Gohan, Trunks Brief, and Son Goten, Son Goku would have taken the individual threats of Perfect Cell and Innocent Buu seriously by having used his brain.

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