The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

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The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:38 pm

Another excellent video by Tony Strongstyle:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5_0xJMAMAQ
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:58 pm

Would love to watch it, if it was not frickin' 90 minutes long :?
Does the video brings something new or is it just chronicling what happened versus fans' expectations?
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:03 pm

MCDaveG wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:58 pm
Would love to watch it, if it was not frickin' 90 minutes long :?
Does the video brings something new or is it just chronicling what happened versus fans' expectations?
Just do what I always do with most Youtube videos-watch them at 2x speed with CC turned on, saves a bunch of time and you still get all the info. I do that with some movies via PowerDVD on my PC as well, comes in handy when you have to be somewhere soon.

As for the video itself it is mostly chronicling what happened versus fans expectations, most of it was new to me since I wasn't following all the behind-the-scenes speculation and hubbub regarding a potential new season of Super.
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:38 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:03 pm
MCDaveG wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:58 pm
Would love to watch it, if it was not frickin' 90 minutes long :?
Does the video brings something new or is it just chronicling what happened versus fans' expectations?
Just do what I always do with most Youtube videos-watch them at 2x speed with CC turned on, saves a bunch of time and you still get all the info. I do that with some movies via PowerDVD on my PC as well, comes in handy when you have to be somewhere soon.

As for the video itself it is mostly chronicling what happened versus fans expectations, most of it was new to me since I wasn't following all the behind-the-scenes speculation and hubbub regarding a potential new season of Super.
Thanks for the info... I have asked mostly because I was part of this crazy train on this forum in now closed topic and was in the party of non-believers and we were all vocal about it and it was really nasty... each month was like: There is this festival/game show/tv show whatever, can we expect something?! I am really happy it is behind us and even tough I am not over-sensitive, I don't wanna relive this again :lol:
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Michsi » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:32 pm

*stares sullenly into the fire* I was there. I lived through all that....

This was a nice chronological recap of the events and great explanation for what and how it happened. Most of it I knew, but there were some tidbits that I missed.

When I hear it like this, how the DB fandom would just not give up was kinda hilarious.

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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:39 am

MCDaveG wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:38 pm
Each month was like: There is this festival/game show/tv show whatever, can we expect something?!
Michsi wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:32 pm
This was a nice chronological recap of the events and great explanation for what and how it happened. When I hear it like this, how the DB fandom would just not give up was kinda hilarious.
To be fair, it could be a lot worse, just ask half life fans, they've been doing what we were doing for FIFTEEN years and still counting. :lol:

At this point we'll get a DB AF before they get half life 3. :lol:

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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:42 am

Pity not the Half-Life fan for the third installment in a series is always lacking and it is better to be left hanging than to be left disappointed.

Anyway. Thanks for the link. Will give it a listen in a little bit.
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Planetnamek » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:22 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:39 am
MCDaveG wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:38 pm
Each month was like: There is this festival/game show/tv show whatever, can we expect something?!
Michsi wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:32 pm
This was a nice chronological recap of the events and great explanation for what and how it happened. When I hear it like this, how the DB fandom would just not give up was kinda hilarious.
To be fair, it could be a lot worse, just ask half life fans, they've been doing what we were doing for FIFTEEN years and still counting. :lol:

At this point we'll get a DB AF before they get half life 3. :lol:
Yeah and now we're finally getting a new Half Life game and of course it's on freaking VR(and it's coming the expensive sets first) :crazy:
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:42 am
Pity not the Half-Life fan for the third installment in a series is always lacking and it is better to be left hanging than to be left disappointed.

Anyway. Thanks for the link. Will give it a listen in a little bit.
I wouldn't say that's true all the time, especially not for video games.

GTA 3 , Sly 3, Jak 3, Crash: Warped, Spyro: Year of the Dragon, Sonic 3, Resistance 3, Killzone 3, Modern Warfare 3, Battlefield 3, Silent Hill 3, Metal Gear Solid 3, Lost Planet 3, Just Cause 3, Dead Rising 3, Mafia 3, DMC 3, Onimusha 3, Borderlands 3 are just a few examples of great third entries in game franchises.
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:30 am

Damn, I had no idea there was that much drama happening in the background. I guess I'm so desensitized from the ever changing plans of videogame companies that I didn't notice how upset DB fans might be about so many false positives.
Planetnamek wrote:
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I wouldn't say that's true all the time, especially not for video games.

GTA 3 , Sly 3, Jak 3, Crash: Warped, Spyro: Year of the Dragon, Sonic 3, Resistance 3, Killzone 3, Modern Warfare 3, Battlefield 3, Silent Hill 3, Metal Gear Solid 3, Lost Planet 3, Just Cause 3, Dead Rising 3, Mafia 3, DMC 3, Onimusha 3, Borderlands 3 are just a few examples of great third entries in game franchises.
Unfortunately I've only played four of those games and of those four I'd only call one of them superior to the second installment.
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:45 am

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:30 am
Unfortunately I've only played four of those games and of those four I'd only call one of them superior to the second installment.
A number of second installments tend to be near perfect (within their franchises), so expecting that kind of quality to repeat itself is a bit unrealistic, and calling anything less as disappointing is unfair.

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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:56 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:45 am
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:30 am
Unfortunately I've only played four of those games and of those four I'd only call one of them superior to the second installment.
A number of second installments tend to be near perfect (within their franchises), so expecting that kind of quality to repeat itself is a bit unrealistic, and calling anything less as disappointing is unfair.
True but then why not go out on a high note? For every Devil May Cry 3 there's at least twenty Mass Effect 3s. If we never see another half-life I'll be a little sad but ultimately Half-Life 2 was such a great experience I don't really if I'd want to risk being disappointed. Or worse, having a new installment that makes me hyper focus on the problems of the previous games.
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Planetnamek » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:33 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:56 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:45 am
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:30 am
Unfortunately I've only played four of those games and of those four I'd only call one of them superior to the second installment.
A number of second installments tend to be near perfect (within their franchises), so expecting that kind of quality to repeat itself is a bit unrealistic, and calling anything less as disappointing is unfair.
True but then why not go out on a high note? For every Devil May Cry 3 there's at least twenty Mass Effect 3s. If we never see another half-life I'll be a little sad but ultimately Half-Life 2 was such a great experience I don't really if I'd want to risk being disappointed. Or worse, having a new installment that makes me hyper focus on the problems of the previous games.
Mass Effect 3 was actually really damn good aside from the shitty ending(which thankfully got corrected at least somewhat with the directors cut). Problems with other games are going to be shown whether there's a sequel or not so I don't see that as a good enough reason not to make a sequel.

If Half Life 2 episode 2 hadn't ended on a such a massive fucking cliffhanger then people wouldn't be nearly as annoyed by the continuous lack of a third game.
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:52 pm

It's a weird situation. I'm not desperate for new Dragon Ball content, but at the same time I do feel a bit disappointed at how many signs were pointing to Super 2.0 being a thing, only for it be nothing more than just rampant speculation. I do certainly think something major happened behind the scenes which lead to Toei deciding not to go forward with an animated continuation. Perhaps Toriyama couldn't come up with any new stroylines? Or maybe it was decided, following the reception of DBS Broly, that movies are to be the preferred format rather than an long running TV series? Or maybe Toyotaro's manga was now going to be positioned as the main creative material for modern Dragon Ball content?

Who knows.

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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:12 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:52 pm
It's a weird situation. I'm not desperate for new Dragon Ball content, but at the same time I do feel a bit disappointed at how many signs were pointing to Super 2.0 being a thing, only for it be nothing more than just rampant speculation. I do certainly think something major happened behind the scenes which lead to Toei deciding not to go forward with an animated continuation. Perhaps Toriyama couldn't come up with any new stroylines? Or maybe it was decided, following the reception of DBS Broly, that movies are to be the preferred format rather than an long running TV series? Or maybe Toyotaro's manga was now going to be positioned as the main creative material for modern Dragon Ball content?

Who knows.
I'm not really sure, but at the same time i'm not expecting this to go on for multiple years of dormancy like in the late '90s and early 2000's after GT ended it's run. It took over a decade before new content for the anime came out with the Jump /Son Goku and Friends Return special in 2008 but maybe they've decided behind closed doors that films are the way to go moving forward rather that committing to another full series, who knows but if i had to guess that is a route they could possibly take in terms of future Dragon Ball animated material.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:19 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:12 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:52 pm
It's a weird situation. I'm not desperate for new Dragon Ball content, but at the same time I do feel a bit disappointed at how many signs were pointing to Super 2.0 being a thing, only for it be nothing more than just rampant speculation. I do certainly think something major happened behind the scenes which lead to Toei deciding not to go forward with an animated continuation. Perhaps Toriyama couldn't come up with any new stroylines? Or maybe it was decided, following the reception of DBS Broly, that movies are to be the preferred format rather than an long running TV series? Or maybe Toyotaro's manga was now going to be positioned as the main creative material for modern Dragon Ball content?

Who knows.
I'm not really sure, but at the same time i'm not expecting this to go on for multiple years of dormancy like in the late '90s and early 2000's after GT ended it's run. It took over a decade before new content for the anime came out with the Jump /Son Goku and Friends Return special in 2008 but maybe they've decided behind closed doors that films are the way to go moving forward rather that committing to another full series, who knows but if i had to guess that is a possible route they could take in terms of future Dragon Ball animated material.
I wouldn't be surprised if Toei planned for Dragon Ball to get a new film every year or two years. It could generate a hell of a lot money, be a lot less stressful for the staff involved, and would be much more convenient for Toriyama to come up with new story ideas and designs.

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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:19 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:12 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:52 pm
It's a weird situation. I'm not desperate for new Dragon Ball content, but at the same time I do feel a bit disappointed at how many signs were pointing to Super 2.0 being a thing, only for it be nothing more than just rampant speculation. I do certainly think something major happened behind the scenes which lead to Toei deciding not to go forward with an animated continuation. Perhaps Toriyama couldn't come up with any new stroylines? Or maybe it was decided, following the reception of DBS Broly, that movies are to be the preferred format rather than an long running TV series? Or maybe Toyotaro's manga was now going to be positioned as the main creative material for modern Dragon Ball content?

Who knows.
I'm not really sure, but at the same time i'm not expecting this to go on for multiple years of dormancy like in the late '90s and early 2000's after GT ended it's run. It took over a decade before new content for the anime came out with the Jump /Son Goku and Friends Return special in 2008 but maybe they've decided behind closed doors that films are the way to go moving forward rather that committing to another full series, who knows but if i had to guess that is a possible route they could take in terms of future Dragon Ball animated material.
I wouldn't be surprised if Toei planned for Dragon Ball to get a new film every year or two years. It could generate a hell of a lot money, be a lot less stressful for the staff involved, and would be much more convenient for Toriyama to come up with new story ideas and designs.
Yeah that's one possible thing they could do, or even something occasional along the lines of the JSAT special which comes out every so often.

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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by emperior » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:23 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:52 pm
It's a weird situation. I'm not desperate for new Dragon Ball content, but at the same time I do feel a bit disappointed at how many signs were pointing to Super 2.0 being a thing, only for it be nothing more than just rampant speculation. I do certainly think something major happened behind the scenes which lead to Toei deciding not to go forward with an animated continuation. Perhaps Toriyama couldn't come up with any new stroylines? Or maybe it was decided, following the reception of DBS Broly, that movies are to be the preferred format rather than an long running TV series? Or maybe Toyotaro's manga was now going to be positioned as the main creative material for modern Dragon Ball content?

Who knows.
I think there’s a possibility that Toriyama has decided to put the future Super storylines in Toyotaro’s hands, while still keeping an active role as the manga’s editor and supervisor.
This would be make Toriyama’s job much easier, but it would also mean the anime has to wait for the manga to go a lot forward before they continue Super in animated form.

It’s just a theory but I suppose Toriyama never intended Super to go on so long, but then it was more popular than expected and he couldn’t wrap it up as fast he wanted to.
And of course he will most likely write new outlines or movies in the future, but he probably wants to take it very easy and trusts Toyotaro to help moving Super’s story forward.
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:34 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:52 pm
It's a weird situation. I'm not desperate for new Dragon Ball content, but at the same time I do feel a bit disappointed at how many signs were pointing to Super 2.0 being a thing, only for it be nothing more than just rampant speculation. I do certainly think something major happened behind the scenes which lead to Toei deciding not to go forward with an animated continuation. Perhaps Toriyama couldn't come up with any new stroylines? Or maybe it was decided, following the reception of DBS Broly, that movies are to be the preferred format rather than an long running TV series? Or maybe Toyotaro's manga was now going to be positioned as the main creative material for modern Dragon Ball content?

Who knows.
According to Geekdom TOEI are trying to avoid another GT situation and don't want to move on with a new series unless Toriyama has any ideas ready.
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:13 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:34 am
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:52 pm
It's a weird situation. I'm not desperate for new Dragon Ball content, but at the same time I do feel a bit disappointed at how many signs were pointing to Super 2.0 being a thing, only for it be nothing more than just rampant speculation. I do certainly think something major happened behind the scenes which lead to Toei deciding not to go forward with an animated continuation. Perhaps Toriyama couldn't come up with any new stroylines? Or maybe it was decided, following the reception of DBS Broly, that movies are to be the preferred format rather than an long running TV series? Or maybe Toyotaro's manga was now going to be positioned as the main creative material for modern Dragon Ball content?

Who knows.
According to Geekdom TOEI are trying to avoid another GT situation and don't want to move on with a new series unless Toriyama has any ideas ready.
Geekdom deals in unsubstantiated speculation based on the same information everyone else has, so don't assume that's anything more than guesswork.
Remember him insisting that the 30th sets would be a Toei remaster he's been implying exists for a while? Then remember how he doubled down and insisted the trailer was just temporary footage, not the "real" footage? Then he further doubled down by insisting that the Spain BD would be this mythical Toei remaster, and he continues to double down on it, insisting that pictures of original animation cels are screenshots from this mythical remaster he's so convinced exists, all the while saying stuff like "I have my sources, y'all should know I'm legit by now" when talking of such things he would eventually be proved wrong on; ultimately, it looks like his only evidence that such a remaster is happening is those cel pictures, and a popular torrent of the Animax HD remaster of the Bardock special with broadcast audio synced up. And I'm pretty sure he was a poster child for "Super 2.0 in July 2019".

And besides that, GT had shit ratings from the start, which slowly fell as it went on (and given they started out pretty shit in ratings, it's clear why they canned it). By all indications, that's why it failed. Japanese fans never hated GT, that's always been a western thing; the Japanese fans were already tired by the end of the ~8-year run the franchsie had had in the Boo arc, and -- aside from the very last couple of episodes of Z and GT -- simply didn't tune in past about the midpoint of the Boo arc. So, while "Trying to avoid another GT situation" would be a half-decent explanation for why they're giving us a break from new Dragon Ball (though you'd be far better understood in such a case by saying "Trying to avoid franchise fatigue"), it is ultimately just speculation.
As for Toriyama not having ideas ready, I'm 100% certain that's pure guesswork. We've seen nothing to suggest Toriyama's having any trouble coming up with story ideas, and even if one could argue that many of his ideas have been crap, the fans have absolutely eaten it up, so Toei have no reason not to move forward if the only issue at hand is "what if toriyama doesn't have a good story ready?" And by all indications, Toei never had any intentions of moving forward with Super without Toriyama giving storylines, so... I don't believe a word of what you're saying Geekdom said there, and you shouldn't either. No offense to him or his fans, but it's clear a lot of his information is speculation, it's clear he consistently gets such things wrong, and you shouldn't believe any of it; he's not a journalist, he's a YouTuber. Just enjoy his content from the lens of it being a fan speculating on rumours.

As for what's actually happened/happening here... My understanding is that all the Super 2.0 rumours were just unsubstantiated bullshit from the beginning (often given massive signal boosts by Dragon Ball YouTubers looking for some strong clickbait to speculate on), and nothing seems to have particularly "happened" other than Toei taking their sweet time to deliver their followup to Super and Broly.
I stand by my long-held thought that Toei's plan is to do another movie, which is taking a lot of time for them to plan out, because they don't want to screw it up again like they did with ResF. It's posible they're also waiting for the manga to finish this latest arc, and the film will be based on that. But this is just speculation, of course.
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Re: The Disappearance of Dragon Ball Super : What Went Wrong in 2019? Full Story +DB in 2020 and Beyond!

Post by Planetnamek » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:07 pm

Actually GT's ratings were pretty good, the problem was GT merchandise was not selling very well and in Japan ratings alone aren't good enough, they want everything associated with a property to do well. Geekdom summed it up pretty well on here(yes I know bagging on him is the trendy thing to do amongst some users on here, but he's not always wrong, certainly not in this case anyways): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am7Zmwody7g

Also Toei didn't really "Screw-up" with RoF at all considering it made bucketloads of money, sure some of the hardcore fans hated it, but like it or not they've always been a vocal minority so they don't matter to Toei in the long run.
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