Dragon Ball AI Project

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.

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TheBlueKnight_3
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Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by TheBlueKnight_3 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:26 am

sorry no one is interested in this project
Last edited by TheBlueKnight_3 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by eledoremassis02 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:02 pm

How do these compare to the Spanish Blu-rays?

Man, the colors even highlight the dated color correction on the Blue bricks (which I belive were even "spruced" compared to the singles)

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Robo4900
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:37 pm

To be honest, it looks just as smeary, low-detail, and overall poor as the Spanish BDs.

No, it's not unwatchable or outright shit picture-wise, but both the Dragon Boxes and the DVD singles look better as-is. Yes, your AI project does make the image superficially sharp, but the same can be said of the Funi Blu-rays of Z. A sharp look isn't nearly all there is to making a picture look good.

And ultimately, the Dragon Boxes are pretty shit video-wise anyway. Again, like this upscale, they're not unwatchable, in fact they're better than a lot of the other video sources for the show (namely the various Funimation season/"Brick" DVDs), but as far as scans of negative film go, they're really bad. Blurry, soft, poor contrast, poor colours, inconsistent framing, weird artifacting in dark areas from the motion blur DNR... It's pretty bad. And I really don't think any upscaler is likely to play nice with it, at all. You just need something higher quality. And sadly, there really isn't anything higher quality. Arguably the Funi/Madman DVD singles are a bit better than the DBox in some ways (look at the back of the car; on the DBox, all the details are smudged together, whereas on the DVD single, the individual lines/dots are distinct), but still far from ideal.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by eledoremassis02 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:52 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:37 pm
To be honest, it looks just as smeary, low-detail, and overall poor as the Spanish BDs.

No, it's not unwatchable or outright shit picture-wise, but both the Dragon Boxes and the DVD singles look better as-is. Yes, your AI project does make the image superficially sharp, but the same can be said of the Funi Blu-rays of Z. A sharp look isn't nearly all there is to making a picture look good.

And ultimately, the Dragon Boxes are pretty shit video-wise anyway. Again, like this upscale, they're not unwatchable, in fact they're better than a lot of the other video sources for the show (namely the various Funimation season/"Brick" DVDs), but as far as scans of negative film go, they're really bad. Blurry, soft, poor contrast, poor colours, inconsistent framing, weird artifacting in dark areas from the motion blur DNR... It's pretty bad. And I really don't think any upscaler is likely to play nice with it, at all. You just need something higher quality. And sadly, there really isn't anything higher quality. Arguably the Funi/Madman DVD singles are a bit better than the DBox in some ways (look at the back of the car; on the DBox, all the details are smudged together, whereas on the DVD single, the individual lines/dots are distinct), but still far from ideal.
I do really like the singles (my go to for Dragon Ball). I do think there are some advantages for this. I'd love to see Ocean get a HD re-edit (which it would have to be unfortunatly) but I'd be interested to see how the title cards would look with this AI upscaling since those would arguably have to be remade in HD (if they dont have the raw effect files anymore)

That does bring up an interesting question as how Selectavision or even this project will handel some of the washed out white balanced issues episodes later on? Color me interested none the less (tho I'm hoping France knock HD Dragon Ball out of the park)

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Robo4900
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:00 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:52 pm
I do really like the singles (my go to for Dragon Ball). I do think there are some advantages for this. I'd love to see Ocean get a HD re-edit (which it would have to be unfortunatly) but I'd be interested to see how the title cards would look with this AI upscaling since those would arguably have to be remade in HD (if they dont have the raw effect files anymore)
Well, Ocean didn't do a Dragon Ball dub until the 2003 one recorded at Blue Water. The 1995 dub was done with Josanne B Lovick and recorded at the Dick & Rogers studio. :P
But, pedantry about namings of things aside, if the 1995 dub was reissued in HD (which I would love to see), it would have to be re-edited. Upscaling the original stuff would be awful, though; if they were working with real HD footage, it's smarter to just recreate the title cards and such using the same kinds of filters as they used back in the day (see: Star Trek TNG's recreated CGI from its HD remaster).

Personally, though, I'd be more satisfied by normal DVDs of all of Ocean's Dragon Ball (Saban Z 1-53, their edit of Funi's 54-107, Westwood 108-276, Blue Water DB & GT, and of course, eventually, Ocean Kai), transferred from the original master tapes in high quality.
Would be nice if the BLT dub could be thrown in with this too (ideally also the "Vendar dub"), but that stuff was done before Ocean were ever involved in Dragon Ball, so that would require some wrangling, probably.

Still though, I think this topic is more about the uncut series in Japanese with subs; for that, the Madman DVD single of "The Goku Saga" can fill in the first 13 episodes, if you're looking to try out DVD single footage. And I agree with you on the singles being nice.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:52 pm
That does bring up an interesting question as how Selectavision or even this project will handle some of the washed out white balanced issues episodes later on? Color me interested none the less
Poorly.

The overblown whites in those later episodes is completely unfixable. The scanning equipment used on the DBoxes was very poorly calibrated, and on the day when those episodes were scanned, the contrast was set such that the highlights were simply chopped off to pure white. You simply cannot fix this without scanning the film again.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:52 pm
(tho I'm hoping France knock HD Dragon Ball out of the park)
Same. But that's probably a few years off, at least.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

Banduck
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by Banduck » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:07 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:02 pm
How do these compare to the Spanish Blu-rays?
A bit sharper, probably better colors, but less detail as you can see here: http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/90BJFNNU
(especially for things that are further away)
So sadly not an option for me.

TheBlueKnight_3
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by TheBlueKnight_3 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:16 pm

Now let's give some details about this project it takes about 2 to 3 days the finished one episode in terms of the CC and the AI upscaling, after that it takes a bit longer the sink the all the various audios. Currently there are only 30 episodes done but he will do the entire series

there is no DNR in this release. When I asked the Creator this was his response me "Just a quick little question someone asked did you use any DNR in this project." his response "No, the original uncompressed source (DVD9) is used, you can also see that it has grain in the final process." Image Image Image you can clearly see the grain in the background and on the characters

TheBlueKnight_3
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by TheBlueKnight_3 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:19 pm

sorry no one is interested in this project
Last edited by TheBlueKnight_3 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by eledoremassis02 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:21 pm

Dang I meant Z title cards :lol: But having all the edits and stuff faithful to the orignal would be nice. Given the right encoding I agree that standard DVD is still no slouch and the singles can look pretty good!
Image
I acutally thought about editing the last episode of Z from the Target promo DVD with the Ocean audio :) I did do the first trunks episodes with the singles DVD but I could have rendered them better.
I
I had the madman discs for Saga of Goku and unforutnly the ghosting was just too distracting for me, but they were better than the OB
Thank you!
Last edited by eledoremassis02 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Robo4900
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:21 pm

TheBlueKnight_3 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:16 pm
there is no DNR in this release. When I asked the Creator this was his response me "Just a quick little question someone asked did you use any DNR in this project." his response "No, the original uncompressed source (DVD9) is used, you can also see that it has grain in the final process."
Bullshit.

Left: DBox, right: AI upscale
Image
TheBlueKnight_3 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:19 pm
what you say is blurry it's possible that the site that I use (Frame Compare) compressors the images maybe
No, the AI upscaler being used here inherently blurs and smears the image. It inherently DNRs it, destroys detail... Makes it shitty, basically. See the screenshot I attached just above this paragraph.
The AI filter here is calibrated terribly, and -- as eledoremassis02 showed -- the results are worse than the Spanish BD upscale.

____

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:21 pm
Dang I meant Z title cards :lol: But having all the edits and stuff faithful to the orignal would be nice. Given the right encoding I agree that standard DVD is still no slouch and the singles can look pretty good!
lol

Well, if you're talking about Z, the Saban-era edits were so extensive, it would be impractical for them to recreate it in HD. Best to just reissue the original masters, transferred in high quality (unlike the godawful RTD set) to NTSC-format DVD.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:21 pm
I acutally thought about editing the last episode of Z from the Target promo DVD with the Ocean audio :) I did do the first trunks episodes with the singles DVD but I could have rendered them better.
Nice.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:21 pm
I had the madman discs for Saga of Goku and unforutnly the ghosting was just too distracting for me, but they were better than the OB
lol fair enough.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

TheBlueKnight_3
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by TheBlueKnight_3 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:30 pm

sorry no one is interested in this project
Last edited by TheBlueKnight_3 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Robo4900
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:34 pm

TheBlueKnight_3 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:30 pm
if you're looking for a true remaster this is not a true remaster but rather this fixes some mistakes that the Dragon boxes have like green tint it makes the image more sharper for instance something like a Blu-ray release that toei might give us one day something like the bardock TV special http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/9FCJFNNU
Fixing the colours is a noble goal, but the colours on display here are pretty rough.

Also, sharpness =/= better picture. Especially when you're basically doing the exact same filtering as Funi; a blur that removes the grain, then a heavy sharpener to make it look sharper... The result is pretty much awful. And yes I know this is allegedly an AI thing, not a normal blur+sharpen, but that's exactly what this alleged AI filter is doing.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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ronaldnorth_03
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by ronaldnorth_03 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:00 pm

I completely support this project. In 2020, it is very sad to watch the series in SD. Most likely it will be the definitive version to watch for a long time. And I also hope you do that with DBZ.

TheBlueKnight_3
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by TheBlueKnight_3 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:04 pm

sorry no one is interested in this project
Last edited by TheBlueKnight_3 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mute_proxy
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by mute_proxy » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:14 pm

This looks amazing. Is there any place I could watch it in motion?

VDenter
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by VDenter » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:21 pm

These colors seem way too blue. Doesn't seem natural at all. The lack of detail because of DNR is awful.

TheBlueKnight_3
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by TheBlueKnight_3 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:25 pm

sorry no one is interested in this project
Last edited by TheBlueKnight_3 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by eledoremassis02 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:25 pm

I don't think it's DNR in the filter sense, I'm not 100% sure how this AI upscale program works, but it looks like it's vectorizing each frame
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/90BJFNNU it would explain the smoother/sharer look.

So it's not so much like FUNimation, but just a byproduct of the program (and not intentetional). I also haven't seen this in motion but it could be more pronounced in motion.

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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by TheBlueKnight_3 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:29 pm

sorry no one is interested in this project
Last edited by TheBlueKnight_3 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Dragon Ball AI Project

Post by eledoremassis02 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:51 pm

TheBlueKnight_3 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:29 pm
where did you find this
Banduck wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:07 pm
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:02 pm
How do these compare to the Spanish Blu-rays?
A bit sharper, probably better colors, but less detail as you can see here: http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/90BJFNNU
(especially for things that are further away)
So sadly not an option for me.

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