Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

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rereboy
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by rereboy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:19 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I fail to see how a sword to the neck is a threat.

1) Grand Supreme Kai has to be stronger than Dabura. And if there's one thing Dragonball likes, it's no selling attacks from weaker opponents.

2) Even if the sword could take off his head, Grand Supreme Kai will be brought back with the Dragonballs.

All in all, I say he should resist.
The blade isnt even to his neck. Its the blunt spine of the sword.
That blade is probably double-edged.
FoolsGil wrote:I fail to see how a sword to the neck is a threat.

1) Grand Supreme Kai has to be stronger than Dabura. And if there's one thing Dragonball likes, it's no selling attacks from weaker opponents.

2) Even if the sword could take off his head, Grand Supreme Kai will be brought back with the Dragonballs.

All in all, I say he should resist.
Not sure why he would have to be stronger than Dabura. He was never stated to be the strongest Kai, so he could be anywhere from East Kaioshin's power to somewhat below South Kaioshin.

And nobody wants to have his neck ripped open, even if it can probably be fixed.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:30 pm

rereboy wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I fail to see how a sword to the neck is a threat.

1) Grand Supreme Kai has to be stronger than Dabura. And if there's one thing Dragonball likes, it's no selling attacks from weaker opponents.

2) Even if the sword could take off his head, Grand Supreme Kai will be brought back with the Dragonballs.

All in all, I say he should resist.
Not sure why he would have to be stronger than Dabura. He was never stated to be the strongest Kai, so he could be anywhere from East Kaioshin's power to somewhat below South Kaioshin.

And nobody wants to have his neck ripped open, even if it can probably be fixed.
In canon series Grand Supreme Kai forced Buu to absorb him, instead of being weak enough to kill. And while nobody want to have their neck ripped open, an agent of good doesn't want to be a hostage to further the plans of evil. It's a worthy sacrifice, and there's dragonballs for extra incentive to not let Babidi get his way.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by rereboy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:18 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
In canon series Grand Supreme Kai forced Buu to absorb him, instead of being weak enough to kill.
All that it's stated in the manga is that South Kai was the strongest Kai, even stronger than Grand Kai, and that Buu absorbed Grand Kai after absorbing South Kai.

Buu's motivation for absorbing Grand Kai are not stated and thinking that he was absorbed because he somehow forced Buu to do so is just an assumption. Furthermore, the explanation that Grand Kai forced him to do so doesn't fit very well with the fact that South Kai on his own was already stronger than Grand Kai, let alone Muscle Buu (who is implied in the manga to be stronger than Super Buu by Goku and Vegeta that noted that Buu was gaining power when he went from Super Buu to Muscle Buu).
And while nobody want to have their neck ripped open, an agent of good doesn't want to be a hostage to further the plans of evil. It's a worthy sacrifice, and there's dragonballs for extra incentive to not let Babidi get his way.
It's not just about being hesitant about having your neck sliced open. Getting yourself killed purely on a matter of principle accomplishes nothing of use. Assessing the situation, looking for options and openings and thinking of a course of action is much more likely to yield positive results overall. Even when one's willing to give up his own life, it matters greatly that that sacrifice actually accomplishes something worthwhile.

Also, the dragon balls can only bring him back if Babidi doesn't win. If Grand Kai gives up his life in a poorly throughout and reckless attempt, the chances of Babidi not being defeated increase.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:31 pm

rereboy wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:
In canon series Grand Supreme Kai forced Buu to absorb him, instead of being weak enough to kill.
All that it's stated in the manga is that South Kai was the strongest Kai, even stronger than Grand Kai, and that Buu absorbed Grand Kai after absorbing South Kai.

Buu's motivation for absorbing Grand Kai are not stated and thinking that he was absorbed because he somehow forced Buu to do so is just an assumption. Furthermore, the explanation that Grand Kai forced him to do so doesn't fit very well with the fact that South Kai on his own was already stronger than Grand Kai, let alone Muscle Buu (who is implied in the manga to be stronger than Super Buu by Goku and Vegeta that noted that Buu was gaining power when he went from Super Buu to Muscle Buu).
And yet he couldn't kill Grand Supreme Kai though supposedly stronger. That says something about his power compared to Dabura's.

Also, the dragon balls can only bring him back if Babidi doesn't win. If Grand Kai gives up his life in a poorly throughout and reckless attempt, the chances of Babidi not being defeated increase.
Well it can go either way. Also being used as a hostage can go either way. There is no right or wrong answer, but for myself, I would hope that resisting instead of being used as a tool is the right way to do it.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by GigaDrill » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:41 pm

What exactly is stopping Vegetto or Zen Buu from teleporting right back to the arena?
Zen Buu especially deserves this since he should easily be a better magic user in every way than Babidi at this point.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by rereboy » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:10 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
And yet he couldn't kill Grand Supreme Kai though supposedly stronger. That says something about his power compared to Dabura's.
That's yet just another assumption. Nothing is ever stated about Buu not being able to kill Grand Kai. All that is stated is that Bu absorbed him but as for why we simply aren't told. You are assuming that it was because Buu wasn't managing to defeat him/kill him but it could have just as easily been simply because Buu, after absorbing South Kai, wanted to also absorb Grand Kai instead of just killing him. In fact, that explanation fits better with everything we actually know than the assumption that Grand Kai was somehow able to fight Muscle Buu to a standstill when he was weaker than South Kai.
Well it can go either way. Also being used as a hostage can go either way. There is no right or wrong answer, but for myself, I would hope that resisting instead of being used as a tool is the right way to do it.
The issue is that you are basically suggesting that he should just resist even before he has properly assessed the situation. Resist might be the best idea, sure, but how can he know that without even properly assessing the situation? Hope for the best without bothering to think about the options?

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:05 pm

rereboy wrote: That's yet just another assumption. Nothing is ever stated about Buu not being able to kill Grand Kai. All that is stated is that Bu absorbed him but as for why we simply aren't told. You are assuming that it was because Buu wasn't managing to defeat him/kill him but it could have just as easily been simply because Buu, after absorbing South Kai, wanted to also absorb Grand Kai instead of just killing him. In fact, that explanation fits better with everything we actually know than the assumption that Grand Kai was somehow able to fight Muscle Buu to a standstill when he was weaker than South Kai.
You're also making assumptions. Is Buu absorbing Grand Supreme Kai just because he wants to truly a better reason?
The issue is that you are basically suggesting that he should just resist even before he has properly assessed the situation. Resist might be the best idea, sure, but how can he know that without even properly assessing the situation? Hope for the best without bothering to think about the options?
What is there to assess besides Babidi is making a play and considers Grand Supreme Kai a valuable asset? Seems to me the longer he's a hostage, the worst things could end up for the heroes.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by rereboy » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:50 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
You're also making assumptions. Is Buu absorbing Grand Supreme Kai just because he wants to truly a better reason?
I'm making no assumptions whatsoever because I didn't say that that was why Buu really absorbed Grand Kai. I'm saying that there could have easily been other reason besides what you assume (like the example I gave) because no reason is actually confirmed in the manga and thus neither me or you or anyone else knows what the reason really was.

That was my whole point. To show you that you are taking for granted something that is only assumed. DBM could follow the manga to the letter and simply not adhere to that assumption because that assumption is not present in the manga.
What is there to assess
Exactly what to do and how to do it, as well as the best timing to do it. "Resist" is a vague concept, not a strategy of attack and defense. Dabura isn't the only opponent, and the problems they are facing aren't merely a matter of fighting physically opponents, but rather the hold Babidi has on all these people, the fact that he has turned the stadium into a magic room and the fact that the contestants were sent somewhere else. The best course of action to face all these events in one go might require more than just blindly attack the closest minion of Babidi and might depend more on doing other things rather than just fighting physically, and thus a plan or strategy would probably be a good idea.

Also, I forgot to mention, but this Grand Kai seems to be associated with Zen Buu. Who knows how that influences things?

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Saiga » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:41 pm

DBM has already weighed in on the Kaioshin in Boo's backstory.

When South Kaioshin fights Fat Boo, he realizes he can't beat him and uses a special, powerful technique to make Boo panic and absorb him. As he's doing this, he thinks this is what would have happened in Fat Boo's universe (when he was still Kid/Pure Boo).

It's hard to find Salagir's comments, but he explained that he used to see South Kaioshin as equal or stronger than Pure Boo because he got absorbed, but was then convinced by the argument that South should be weaker than Gohan due to the Z Sword scene. That would leave Dai Kaioshin weaker than South, Gohan and by extension probably weaker than Dabra.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by coola » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:09 pm

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Marco Polo » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:10 pm

Is that Crocodyne from Dragon Quest: Dai no Daiboken and Jiren from Dragon Ball Super in the audience?

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:13 pm

coola wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Is that Darth Maul? (middle frame, botton right corner)
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by coola » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:04 pm

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Those veins look hilarious, they all look like they are trying to lift something big :)
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:21 pm

...But if the Vargas are dead, how is Babidi going to get access to universe that's holding all the dragonballs?

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Rubens » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:27 pm

I don't think they're all dead, but at the very least one Varga is alive - one that he "majinized".

I was also wondering if Freeza's soldiers were also posessed... I guess this page answers it. Next I'd like to know what happened to the ones who were teleported.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by testing223 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:36 am

coola wrote: Those veins look hilarious, they all look like they are trying to lift something big :)
The Majin form was always kind of lazy of Toriyama, just an M, eyeliner and veins. I don't blame Asura for over-emphasizing them to show Babidi's upped the power even more.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Marco Polo » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:54 am

I always thought it was strange that Dabra doesn't have visible veins.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by dario03 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:54 am

Marco Polo wrote:I always thought it was strange that Dabra doesn't have visible veins.
I always figured it was a time thing. So when he first got taken over he probably did but they went away after a while. Yakon and Pui Pui didn't have them either iirc.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:13 pm

dario03 wrote:
Marco Polo wrote:I always thought it was strange that Dabra doesn't have visible veins.
I always figured it was a time thing. So when he first got taken over he probably did but they went away after a while. Yakon and Pui Pui didn't have them either iirc.
Yeah, as far as I remember, Vegeta didn't have them the whole time either. By the time he went to fight Buu, they calmed down a lot.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:08 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
dario03 wrote:
Marco Polo wrote:I always thought it was strange that Dabra doesn't have visible veins.
I always figured it was a time thing. So when he first got taken over he probably did but they went away after a while. Yakon and Pui Pui didn't have them either iirc.
Yeah, as far as I remember, Vegeta didn't have them the whole time either. By the time he went to fight Buu, they calmed down a lot.
In the manga, they are still really prominent up until he blows himself up, with the exception of him calming down a bit when he hugs Trunks. I think the state of mind has more to do with it than the time factor, honestly. Pui-Pui was scared, Yakon a monster, and Dabura was composed. Spopovitch and Vegeta were pissed off or stressed the whole time, and we don't really know anything about Yamu.
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