Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.

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Salagir2
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Salagir2 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:10 pm

I have to respect Salagir for being calm and willing to jump in on the debates. There's been some really mean hateful stuff posted in this topic towards him over the months.
Oh yes, it was fun! Especially DNA saying I'm a fucker.
I hope you're not the same DNA who make Portuguese translation, that would be... awkward.

Don't worry, I can take the shit. After all, I'm saying bad things all the time against Toei, but without the anime, I wouldn't have heard of DB in my life and it still had great moments. Sometimes we just like to be bastards with authors. After all, they don't listen...
Salagir, what multipliers do you have for Oozaru & Super Saiyan forms?
I prefer not to answer that. I already lost too much time with Nappa's debate ;p PLs and multipliers are a sure thing to not agree on anything :)
About Cold being not above freeza, why powering him up, and why didn't he beat the crap of trunks then ?
RandomGuy96 made a good point explaining why clearly Cold isn't stronger than Freeza.
But everything can be bent a little (by me) and change that. I changed that because I had my own view on the "frost demons".
* When people talk about Freeza's Ki, as most of them never saw him, we don't know who's ki they are actually talking about.
* Number 1 in the universe was used by Vegeta before. By Barta also for speed, although even Ginyu might be faster than him. Also, isn't Coola number 1 and not his brother then ? (anime only) And it's also Freeza's revenge. His father isn't going to cut him every 2 lines saying "Nope, I am the strongest". To conclude, as a father preparing his son to take his place, it's also possible that he doesn't bother him with that.
* Transforming takes time. Cold saw that Trunks doesn't lose time. If Cold transforms, he'll be cut in two. That's why he tried to trick him instead of fighting on the spot. When the trick didn't work, Cold didn't have time to transform.
* Demons can't control themselves when powering up too much, that's why they go in reduced form (said by freeza). I decided that if Cold transforms, he destroys a little too much around him. That's why he would think twice before doing that. You will see that told in the fanfic "One way", first chapter released a few hours ago. In DBM Cold now controls himself like his sons. This is a personal add-on, but it goes by DBZ logic.

To conclude : I agree that Toriyama may have intended for Cold to be less strong than his son and not having any transformation.
I decided to twist that a little to make the "frost demons" my own (yes, Cold gave birth to his sons), but keeping all that according to what we see in the manga.
Sagir2(Shit can't spell his name for crap lol)
Yeah, that's actually not very nice. And you may have guessed that I don't wear the "2" on purpose.
If you can't write, copy-paste. That's what I do, TheGmGoken. It shows a minimum of civility.
As you said he could have done a better job in setting up the universes.
Of course. given more time to think before, given years of DBM publishing online, given 700 pages of experiments, I can say that if I did DBM now from the beginning, it would be very different.
When we began, more than half of the universes were written in stone. Even the next ones had to be decided very quickly. Notice how some universes are all in the first part of the round 1 and some others only the the second part ? I tried to give me more time to decide.
There are many things I regret and many things I wanted to change right after publication (comments can help that) or even months after.

It's sure easier to look back at some work and say "I'd done better".
Why is it just Vegeta and GOku who are the strong Saiyans?
Cool, new original characters of saiyans ! That would have given me true support, and differentiating me from the common fanboy, lol :)
Wait...why the hell is Videl so strong? It's fucking Videl!? Even if she HAD met the Z fighters I'm sure she would't become all of that. She would be more like Chi Chi( without being the bitch part IMO. How the hell can she manage the Kaioken.
That's not very nice for the only young character in the whole Buu Saga who actually gives a shit on getting stronger.
it's obvious to me that if Videl had the same life story as Krillin, she would be as strong as him. Why not?
Or maybe it's just plain misogyny as well, just like for SSJ Pan.
Yajirobe has enormous potential; he did basically nothing but sit around and eat and yet he still had a power level in the hundreds,(...)Yet he still gets a power level of around 1,000 by doing nothing. What could he have done had he ACTUALLY trained...?
Sadly all the power level you cite come from, I guess, other courses, the same other sources that put Popo at ~1000.
It's quite clear Yajirobe never went far. He could be Roshi's level for all I know. His only fights were against Goku being nice to him and the dragon Piccolo made, who was quite weak. Yajirobe clearly doesn't want to fight or to learn to fight. Making him strong would be off-character.
For the same reason Gohan didn't participate to DBM 's tournament.
And for the same reason I didn't do a universe with "good freeza" (actual suggestion by mail).
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by DNA » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:39 pm

Salagir2 wrote:Oh yes, it was fun! Especially DNA saying I'm a fucker.
I hope you're not the same DNA who make Portuguese translation, that would be... awkward.
I don't remember calling you directly a fucker, maybe indirectly whilst referring to you, which is a bit different, but take it as you'd like. I have called you arrogant many times though.
I am indeed the same who used to be a part of the Portuguese translation team. I gave up for many reasons, internal quarrels with the team members being one, but the main reasons for me to give up on it were the unbearable pacing and plot, coupled with your arrogant attitude.
I am pretty sure I contacted you about the quarrels but you completely ignored the emails. Also, adding new team members without consulting the previous ones is a dick move.
I am at peace knowing that at least one team member is doing a great job, so I left it in capable hands.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TonyTheTiger » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:41 pm

Salagir2 wrote:But everything can be bent a little (by me) and change that. I changed that because I had my own view on the "frost demons".
The thing with taking these liberties is that it conflicts with the premise of your own story. From your own page you present DBM as a sequel to the manga. "As I often try to do fanfictions that are compatible with the original work." DBM is about the butterfly effect. The idea that simple changes in the story we know can spin off into wildly different realities. And that's awesome. So when you start modifying and retconing details that don't spin off and instead are just things we need to assume were always the case even in U18, it's no longer "Our DB/DBZ we know, 10 years later." Instead it's Salagir's randomly altered version of DBZ, 10 years later. Which is kind of silly if we're talking about a butterfly effect story.

Just take the Bardock special. You randomly (and needlessly) changed the story so now in U18, which is meant to be the DBZ we know, he never got his psychic power. So instead of U3 being an alternate course of events from the Bardock story we know, it's now an alternate course of events from a random Salagir version. What's interesting is taking stuff that we know and presenting an alternate course of events. What's silly is making up a random new version of stuff we know and presenting an alternate course of events from that random new version. Nobody wants to see "Salagir-verse and all the alternate versions of it." They want to see "DBZ-verse and all the alternate versions of it."

If you have to fiddle with the movies slightly to resolve some of the more blatant conflicts with the manga, fine. But to randomly change things that don't need to be changed (Cold's max power, Bardock's history, etc.) you render the point of DBM moot. If you're going to do a butterfly effect story you should only be changing one variable per universe, the one that skews the story off into an alternate timeline. If you change more than that it just doesn't work.

And if you are going to change something, make sure there's a reason for it. What purpose did changing the Bardock story serve? What narrative benefit came from it? You could have told the same story had you followed the TV special's order of events and changed just one thing to skew off into U3. It was change for the sake of change. It's the same thing that's wrong with Cold's max power. For the record, I like the idea (and it's certainly plausible) that Cold was in a suppressed form in the manga. What isn't plausible is that his max power is comparable to Android 16.

U18 shouldn't need further elaboration. Like science experiments, alternate universe stories need a control group if they're going to make sense and be interesting.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Draken » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:54 pm

* Transforming takes time. Cold saw that Trunks doesn't lose time. If Cold transforms, he'll be cut in two. That's why he tried to trick him instead of fighting on the spot. When the trick didn't work, Cold didn't have time to transform.
Uh, Trunks told Cold to go at him with his full power. Trunks was giving Cold time ._.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:55 pm

^This. Trunks would have let him transform. The Daizenshuu also flat out state Freeza is stronger than his father.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by DNA » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:04 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:^This. Trunks would have let him transform. The Daizenshuu also flat out state Freeza is stronger than his father.
Heck, even Cold flat out states that, as it has been pointed out on this discussion.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Salagir2 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:35 pm

You look pissed, DNA. I'll try to answer.
I don't remember calling you directly a fucker
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 80#p671573
BTW, as you can write better material than me, why don't you do it? I do am open to suggestion you know. I refuse a lot, that's true, but it's worth the shot.
The earthling universe most of you seem to hate IS a suggestion after all :)
I am pretty sure I contacted you about the quarrels but you completely ignored the emails. Also, adding new team members without consulting the previous ones is a dick move.
Well, I'm not going to search my mails but this happens actually a lot. Lot's of versions had their problems and people hope I'll be the judge and police about it. It's very hard for me to do, because I can't read the language in question and don't know who's right when they say the other ruin his translations. The only way to solve it is by discussion between the parties and I usually try to make them talk more and be nice with everyone. That's all I can do.
Some times, I had to ignore the requests because of the so many others things to handle. If I did, I'm sorry. But I do answer 95% of my mails.
I usually also never add people in a translation team without talking to the others first, usually asking the opinion of the "chief" of the version. Maybe I fucked this time, I don't know. But the chances are low.
Handling a team of 80 translators isn't actually... easy.
at least one team member is doing a great job, so I left it in capable hands.
That is great , thank you.
The thing with taking these liberties is that it conflicts with the premise of your own story .... Instead it's Salagir's randomly altered version of DBZ
I see. And you're right.
Although even with this in mind I don't think I'm capable of taking such a huge universe, and produce a thousand pages on it, without changing it a little.
Even Toriyama and especially the Toei changed the past for his own needs. On very little details.

Most of my changes are due to my own vision of consistency and credibility. And that's my weak point. I think many things in fillers don't have any credibility, and I want to change them. You can critic my own credibility, this is not the point here.
The point is I just couldn't stand imagining that a random Kanassian can, in one shot, give the power of sight AND put to sleep for a few days, an enemy that was killing his people by packs.
I can't stand that the whole point of the special is to give visions to Baddack, and said visions don't have any impact ANYWHERE in the story, as all he does, he does it based on events.
Looking back at this, sometimes I regret it : why pissing off so many readers just because I didn't like Toei's choice ? It wasn't an actual inconsistency. I know. But I know that if I didn't change it, I would also wake up in the middle of the night thinking I should have changed it ;p
For the same reasons, I needed to change the end of Broly's first film (one of the first specials we've done, I couldn't make it as long as I wanted. Still a big frustration), I needed to rewrite Broly's second film. I need it, as a scenarist. You can disagree, but I prefer this version, because it's more credible, for me. I guess I don't respect the original work enough. That is certainly the case. I even critic Toriyama's choices sometimes. (Yeah DNA, that's high-level arrogance!)

For Cold, it's interesting that you can't bear him being about #16 level. Some of my team was seeing him at SSJ Full Power easily ! :)
The distance between freeza and #16 is quite small I think, in the grand scheme of power levels of all DBZ ^^
Remember this comic where another of Freeza's family arrive, after 50 years in ice, and because of that, wipes the floor with SSJ3 saiyans ? Any comment ? :)

Note that I didn't make so many changes. Most of the time, it's actually only working on the butterfly effect.

Trunks was giving Cold time

I just re-read the scene in manga. Nope, he doesn't.

When trunks tells them go full power, he is actually telling both of them he'll go at full power directly, that he isn't as nice as goku. At the moment they don't take him seriously.
Then he turns SSJ, kills freeza, and faces Cold. A Cold that just saw Trunks killing freeza without letting him any chance, a Trunks who said he wasn't nice. Cold knows he is in a bad situation. They talk. If Cold stopped talking to transform, what's to say Trunks would wait ? He wouldn't. At the precise moment Cold attacks with the sword, Cold dies in the next 2 seconds.
I really don't see how Cold could ever transform in this whole scene.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TonyTheTiger » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:53 pm

Salagir2 wrote:For Cold, it's interesting that you can't bear him being about #16 level. Some of my team was seeing him at SSJ Full Power easily ! :)
The distance between freeza and #16 is quite small I think, in the grand scheme of power levels of all DBZ ^^
Really? Because the guy who instantly annihilated Freeza turned out to be completely petrified of 17 and 18, who utterly humiliated the entire gang without even trying. And 16 is supposed to be even stronger than that. Seems like the distance is pretty big given how easily the androids won.

I'll be the first to admit that some of the things Toriyama and Toei have done rub me the wrong way. But this is the story we're stuck with. Personally, and I think you've touched on this in DBM, I'd prefer Freeza and company to be a credible threat through scheming rather than just get random power boosts. I think Cold could have beaten Videl and put up a decent fight against Bardock (and possibly win) even without being as strong as 16. So the extra power seems arbitrary to me.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:55 pm

Salagir2 wrote:
Trunks was giving Cold time
I just re-read the scene in manga. Nope, he doesn't.

When trunks tells them go full power, he is actually telling both of them he'll go at full power directly, that he isn't as nice as goku. At the moment they don't take him seriously.
Then he turns SSJ, kills freeza, and faces Cold. A Cold that just saw Trunks killing freeza without letting him any chance, a Trunks who said he wasn't nice. Cold knows he is in a bad situation. They talk. If Cold stopped talking to transform, what's to say Trunks would wait ? He wouldn't. At the precise moment Cold attacks with the sword, Cold dies in the next 2 seconds.
I really don't see how Cold could ever transform in this whole scene.
I don't know what the French translation says, and I'm too lazy to look for the Japanese one, but the English version point blankly says "You'd better bring everything you've got at me. I'm no pushover...like Son Goku." If Cold had the ability to transform and stopped to do so instead of ignoring his opponent's gesture, or transformed instead of asking for the sword, Trunks would have waited. He just told them he would.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:56 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:The Daizenshuu also flat out state Freeza is stronger than his father.
The Daizenshuu are non-canon to DBM. Only the Manga & Movie 9 are canon to DBM, right?

BTW, Salagir, what is the DBM canon? Is there anything else other than the Manga & Movie 9 that is canon?
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TonyTheTiger » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:59 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:I don't know what the French translation says, and I'm too lazy to look for the Japanese one, but the English version point blankly says "You'd better bring everything you've got at me. I'm no pushover...like Son Goku." If Cold had the ability to transform and stopped to do so instead of ignoring his opponent's gesture, or transformed instead of asking for the sword, Trunks would have waited. He just told them he would.
Not to mention, when in Dragon Ball has anyone ever not had the time to transform? Although, for the record, I did like how in the Bardock special the Saiyans killed Freeza mid-transformation. That kind of pragmatism in the alternate universes is nice to see. I assume U9 is full of that kind of thing.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:02 pm

If he isn't using official material, why should I take anything in this series seriously?
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:04 pm

TonyTheTiger wrote:Not to mention, when in Dragon Ball has anyone ever not had the time to transform?
Trunks tried to hit Cell when he was transforming into his Perfect Form... and he raised a barrier.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:05 pm

TonyTheTiger wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:I don't know what the French translation says, and I'm too lazy to look for the Japanese one, but the English version point blankly says "You'd better bring everything you've got at me. I'm no pushover...like Son Goku." If Cold had the ability to transform and stopped to do so instead of ignoring his opponent's gesture, or transformed instead of asking for the sword, Trunks would have waited. He just told them he would.
Not to mention, when in Dragon Ball has anyone ever not had the time to transform? Although, for the record, I did like how in the Bardock special the Saiyans killed Freeza mid-transformation. That kind of pragmatism in the alternate universes is nice to see. I assume U9 is full of that kind of thing.
In the anime, don't remember what happened in the manga, Krillin and Trunk tried to attack Cell when he was transforming into his perfect form. It didn't work, but it makes sense, and it makes you wonder why they never tried it before.
As for the time for transformations, that's hard to tell in the manga, but at the very least, Freeza's final transformation took some time. While he was transforming, Dende had time to fish Piccolo out of the water, heal him, be convinced by Piccolo to heal Vegeta, fly over to Vegeta, and heal him, so I'm guessing that the transformation took at least a minute or two.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by DNA » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:08 pm

Salagir2 wrote:You look pissed, DNA. I'll try to answer.
I am far from pissed, at this point I don't even care much.
Salagir2 wrote:
I don't remember calling you directly a fucker
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 80#p671573
You know when you complained about someone omitting half your reply? You just did the same. That is what I describe as calling someone a name "indirectly", which means, I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just referring to you as that. If you wish to take it as offensive, feel free to do it.
Salagir2 wrote:BTW, as you can write better material than me, why don't you do it? I do am open to suggestion you know. I refuse a lot, that's true, but it's worth the shot.
The earthling universe most of you seem to hate IS a suggestion after all :)
You've been reading my posts, I've been suggesting things you could have done. Yeah, I'm sure I could write better material, I don't do it because I've got many other concerns in my life at the moment to be wasting my time with fanfics. So, I'm not going to do that.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:45 am

* When people talk about Freeza's Ki, as most of them never saw him, we don't know who's ki they are actually talking about.
What does this have to do with anything? Everyone senses two enormous ki levels. While Yamcha is crapping his pants at them, Gohan says that these levels are pathetically weak compared to what Freeza can REALLY do.
* Number 1 in the universe was used by Vegeta before. By Barta also for speed, although even Ginyu might be faster than him. Also, isn't Coola number 1 and not his brother then ? (anime only) And it's also Freeza's revenge. His father isn't going to cut him every 2 lines saying "Nope, I am the strongest". To conclude, as a father preparing his son to take his place, it's also possible that he doesn't bother him with that.
Cooler was the strongest in the universe, but no one but him knew, since he told Goku no one else ever saw his transformation.

It's more than just a generic boast. It's Cold flat out saying that Freeza is stronger than him when he says not once but TWICE that anyone that can beat Freeza is the strongest person in the universe.
* Demons can't control themselves when powering up too much, that's why they go in reduced form (said by freeza). I decided that if Cold transforms, he destroys a little too much around him. That's why he would think twice before doing that. You will see that told in the fanfic "One way", first chapter released a few hours ago. In DBM Cold now controls himself like his sons. This is a personal add-on, but it goes by DBZ logic.
Freeza never said that. He said that HE can't control himself. Nothing specific about his species. And Cold is very clearly in a different form than Freeza's second.

It doesn't go by DBZ logic, because in DBZ, Cold flat-out said Freeza > him. It's not his transformations that are the problem- I don't think he can transform, but if you want him to, go right ahead, as long as his power stays at it's canon level (i.e. just about anything above base Trunks and below Freeza). But when you start having to retcon things in the manga to explain away plot points that DON'T NEED TO BE THERE and serve no purpose in the grand scheme of things, maybe it's time to take a step back.

Again, what was the point? Why does Cold have to be stronger than Freeza? How does that serve the plot in any way? Does he need to be that strong to beat Videl? No, in fact it would be absurd if he couldn't beat her at his canon level. Super Saiyan Bardock? No again- this is another person who he could roflstomp at his canon level bar massive Bardock wank and bullcrap power ups. And even if you do want to make these characters much stronger than they logically should be for the purposes of their universes, why does Cold have to be the one to beat them? Why not Cooler? His 'canon' strength actually IS far above Freeza (nowhere near 16, obviously) at least (this is repeatedly stated in the movie, and at one point he tanks an attack that was implied to be enough to kill Freeza), so why can't he advance instead? Why did he have to get roflstomped in the first round by an over leveled opponent instead of Cold? I actually kind of get the feeling that you hate him (and Dabura).
But everything can be bent a little (by me) and change that. I changed that because I had my own view on the "frost demons".
You say that you follow the manga. You say that GT sucks because it doesn't. But then in the very next breath you say that you can change things from the manga because they don't fit your view?
You can disagree, but I prefer this version, because it's more credible, for me.
Credible? Your fanfiction is more credible than the original work? What?
Remember this comic where another of Freeza's family arrive, after 50 years in ice, and because of that, wipes the floor with SSJ3 saiyans ? Any comment ? :)


Never read it, don't want to.

For Cold, it's interesting that you can't bear him being about #16 level. Some of my team was seeing him at SSJ Full Power easily ! :)


I presume this team has never read the manga...? Cold admits inferiority to Freeza at least three times, but I don't think I need to repeat that.

The distance between freeza and #16 is quite small I think, in the grand scheme of power levels of all DBZ ^^


Freeza is 120,000,000. He got completely humiliated by Namek Goku, at 150,000,000. He got a mechanical upgrade that made him think that he could now equal or beat that 150,000,000 power level. However, this other Super Saiyan comes back and kills him in seconds. This Super Saiyan admits inferiority to the new and improved Goku, and the superiority is such that Goku can deflect all of his blows with one finger, and Trunks fanboys over his power, calling it greater than the legends. He then reveals that he and another Super Saiyan (who's almost as strong as him) are still no match for the future androids. Goku and co train 3 straight years, during which they all improve, with Piccolo now being compared to a Super Saiyan and saying that he "doesn't lack confidence" against foes that roflstomp Trunks. However, we learn that Vegeta is even stronger than Goku now. All seems to be going well until Trunks shows up again and says that, though they can take the androids from his time if they work together, these new androids are completely ridiculous in their power. These new androids proceed to annihilate the entire gang in minutes. Then Piccolo gets an upgrade by fusing with Kami that let's him match one of the androids in combat... but before he fights the androids, he comes across this creature called Cell. This guy's weaker than him, but stronger than the Super Saiyans by their own admission, and has the potential to get stronger by absorbing humans and androids. He escapes Piccolo, who goes on to fight an even battle with 17 before Cell shows up. Having gotten much stronger, he TANKS a heavily amplified attack from Piccolo and breaks his neck with one punch, and then proceeds to easily beat down 17 as well. Just when it looks like all is lost... 16 jumps in and fights Cell to a standstill, even gaining a nice advantage near the end.

Android 16
Imperfect Cell
(BIG GAP)
Present Androids
Initial Cell
Android Arc Vegeta/Goku
Future Androids
Android Arc Trunks/Piccolo
Sick Goku
Yardrat Goku
Mecha Arc Trunks
Future Gohan
Mecha Freeza
Namek Goku
Freeza
Suppressed Mecha Freeza
King Cold

Do you see how far off he is now?

Then he turns SSJ, kills freeza, and faces Cold. A Cold that just saw Trunks killing freeza without letting him any chance, a Trunks who said he wasn't nice. Cold knows he is in a bad situation. They talk. If Cold stopped talking to transform, what's to say Trunks would wait ? He wouldn't. At the precise moment Cold attacks with the sword, Cold dies in the next 2 seconds.


That wouldn't matter a bit. Remember when Trunks tried to attack Perfect Cell mid-transformation? It didn't do a damn thing because Cell was just that much stronger. With your haxxed Cold being around Android 16 level in his final form and above even Cooler in his third (...REALLY!?), he would've just no-selled Trunks' attacks the same way Cell did.

Let's take a step back here for a moment. Let's assume Cold could become that strong. Okay. Why didn't he transform the minute he got to Earth? He knows he's fighting someone stronger than Freeza, what the hell did he think was going to happen? Did he think that his enemy was going to sit there and let him transform? Well, he would've been justified in thinking that, because he totally did. Yet Cold didn't transform, because...? If Goku had actually showed up, what would Cold do? What was his plan? In what situation does this end well for this dumbass?

Furthermore, in Universe 9 (I think? The one Trunks is from), Goku was the one who dispatched Freeza and Cold. He would surely have let them transform. How did that universe survive? Why did no one bother telling Trunks how strong Cold supposedly was before he went back into the past?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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miguelnuva1
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by miguelnuva1 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:02 am

My thing on cold was he was stronger than Frieza and Cooler in the same form but they had more potential so they could go form 3 and form 4 or something like that.

Basically Cold was born in form 2 and had to power up that way whole Cooler and Frieza where born in form 5. Cooler is older and weaker so his power doesn't bother him as much as Frieza but he was able to reach a form 5.

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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:42 am

Maybe Cold couldn't control his power when he was on Earth, which could be why he wasn't taking his next forms into account when saying that whoever beat Freeza would be the strongest.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Cold Skin
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Cold Skin » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:06 pm

In the manga, it is implied that Freezer is stronger than Cold, since Cold tells Freezer to eliminate the Super Saiyan for the N°1 must be in their family, implying that if Freezer won, he would be N°1 and thus Cold would not be high-ranked.

But in the anime, it's more ambiguous: there is this same reply which would again state that Freezer is stronger than Cold, but before that, when the enemies are approaching Earth in their spaceship and everyone flies towards the landing area, Vegeta is thinking that to top it all, there seems to be an even bigger power than Freezer's right next to him, implying Cold is more powerful.

So it is unambiguous in the manga, but quite ambiguous in the anime.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TonyTheTiger » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:37 pm

Tell you what, Salagir. We will cease all bitching if THE PACT can live. Deal? :wink:

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