Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[miguelnuva1]

In the Cooler Movie Goku doesn't go to Yadrat and since the manga picks up a year later Gohan could have regrown his tail and lost by the time the Trunks saga starts.

Anway how about the fact that Salagir says Goku and Vegeta mostly maxxed out in the Buu saga where AT says otherwise.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku's actual power doesn't max out. I'd say his growth rate does until he finds other methods of increasing it.

[miguelnuva1]

Goku's actual power doesn't max out. I'd say his growth rate does until he finds other methods of increasing it.

Salagir said Goku and Vegeta hit a wall in the Buu saga and so the DBM versions aren't a lot stronger than the Buu saga counter parts.

[Kamiccolo9]

In the Cooler Movie Goku doesn't go to Yadrat and since the manga picks up a year later Gohan could have regrown his tail and lost by the time the Trunks saga starts.

Anway how about the fact that Salagir says Goku and Vegeta mostly maxxed out in the Buu saga where AT says otherwise.

Toryama actually said something similar. We've been discussing it in this thread.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =8&t=24082

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku's actual power doesn't max out. I'd say his growth rate does until he finds other methods of increasing it.

Salagir said Goku and Vegeta hit a wall in the Buu saga and so the DBM versions aren't a lot stronger than the Buu saga counter parts.

Well he's wrong, but what else is new?

[Storm101]

Goku's actual power doesn't max out. I'd say his growth rate does until he finds other methods of increasing it.

Salagir said Goku and Vegeta hit a wall in the Buu saga and so the DBM versions aren't a lot stronger than the Buu saga counter parts.

Did he really say this? Because at the same time he's been hinting that Vegeta has discovered a power greater than Gohan.

[CaBrPi]

In the Cooler Movie Goku doesn't go to Yadrat and since the manga picks up a year later Gohan could have regrown his tail and lost by the time the Trunks saga starts.

Anway how about the fact that Salagir says Goku and Vegeta mostly maxxed out in the Buu saga where AT says otherwise.

Yeah, but that would be filling in a plot hole that exists within the movie itself. If the movie itself doesn't fill in its own plot holes... they're still plot holes.

DBZ M5 is about the same level as DBZ M1 in terms of fitting into the manga or anime: it mostly fits, but there are a few key things that prevent it from really meshing. DBZ M9 and M13 are probably the only two higher than those, fitting without any overt errors (outside of the usual Goku-hax).

Anyways, I think it's fair to say that Dragon Ball in general has a very loose canon, and I tend to ignore problems so long as I can squint and turn my head, and it looks fine... so to speak.

[Gyt Kaliba]

DBZ M5 is about the same level as DBZ M1 in terms of fitting into the manga or anime: it mostly fits, but there are a few key things that prevent it from really meshing. DBZ M9 and M13 are probably the only two higher than those, fitting without any overt errors (outside of the usual Goku-hax).

With 13 there's also the issue of the Trunks sword thing, especially with what the ending theme seems to apply. But that's easily ignorable IMO, the ending credits animation in all the other movies had nothing to do with adding to the plot to the movie, so there's no reason this one was either.

Anyways, I think it's fair to say that Dragon Ball in general has a very loose canon, and I tend to ignore problems so long as I can squint and turn my head, and it looks fine... so to speak.

That's what I do a lot too. Heck, that's what I do with the exact same issue above.

[DNA]

With 13 there's also the issue of the Trunks sword thing, especially with what the ending theme seems to apply. But that's easily ignorable IMO, the ending credits animation in all the other movies had nothing to do with adding to the plot to the movie, so there's no reason this one was either.

I find it really dumb when people use the credits to justify why that movie can't fit. For all we know, the credits were meant to show us a mirror effect of a coming of age for young Trunks. Like "Remember this guy? Yeah, now little Trunks is on his way to be just as cool as him!". He isn't, but whatever.

[RandomGuy96]

In the Cooler Movie Goku doesn't go to Yadrat and since the manga picks up a year later Gohan could have regrown his tail and lost by the time the Trunks saga starts.

Anway how about the fact that Salagir says Goku and Vegeta mostly maxxed out in the Buu saga where AT says otherwise.

Yeah, but that would be filling in a plot hole that exists within the movie itself. If the movie itself doesn't fill in its own plot holes... they're still plot holes.

DBZ M5 is about the same level as DBZ M1 in terms of fitting into the manga or anime: it mostly fits, but there are a few key things that prevent it from really meshing. DBZ M9 and M13 are probably the only two higher than those, fitting without any overt errors (outside of the usual Goku-hax).

Anyways, I think it's fair to say that Dragon Ball in general has a very loose canon, and I tend to ignore problems so long as I can squint and turn my head, and it looks fine... so to speak.

A plothole is: "a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot".

A character acting in an illogical way (like they do in all movies) isn't a plothole. The movie not showing Gohan growing back his tail (i.e. not showing an event responsible for a minor cosmetic change) is not a plothole.

[Saiga]

Goku's actual power doesn't max out. I'd say his growth rate does until he finds other methods of increasing it.

Salagir said Goku and Vegeta hit a wall in the Buu saga and so the DBM versions aren't a lot stronger than the Buu saga counter parts.

Well he's wrong, but what else is new?

How is he wrong? That sounds completely right. They hit walls all the time, and don't get much stronger until they overcome them.

[RandomGuy96]

Toriyama basically said as much himself. I'm all for calling him on his bullshit, but this isn't it.

I'd think it was much stupider if Goku and Vegeta somehow DID get much stronger from cryptic and non-descript "training". At least stronger in a way that actually mattered (i.e., strength that would put them in the Fusion Saga tier).

[Gyt Kaliba]

With 13 there's also the issue of the Trunks sword thing, especially with what the ending theme seems to apply. But that's easily ignorable IMO, the ending credits animation in all the other movies had nothing to do with adding to the plot to the movie, so there's no reason this one was either.

I find it really dumb when people use the credits to justify why that movie can't fit. For all we know, the credits were meant to show us a mirror effect of a coming of age for young Trunks. Like "Remember this guy? Yeah, now little Trunks is on his way to be just as cool as him!". He isn't, but whatever.

I think you might have misunderstood me, cuz I agree with that sentiment. I was just pointing out that a lot of people do use it as a valid point, when I don't think it really has impact on anything at all.

Hmm...actually, how long before GT was movie 13 being worked on and came out? Maybe the re-use of that footage and the weird suggestion was linked to the way they made Trunks a little more like his future counterpart in that series.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That may be, but he said he follows the Manga timeline. Direct contradiction or not, Coola does not exist in the manga.

At this point, you may wonder which movies did happen and which didn't, from DBM and Universe 18 point of view.
So here is the answer:
In universes 18 and 16:
* Films 1 to 7 didn't happen. I frankly don't know why they know Coola and how he died in their universes
* Film 8 (Broly) happened but a little differently, and just before Cell Games
* Film 9 (Bojack) happened
* Film 10 (Broly's return) happened, but with a totally different story
* Films 11 to 13 didn't happen
* The new OAV with Table didn't happen
* Dr Raichi's OAV didn't happen
* Telefilm Baddack may have happened, maybe a little differently
* Telefilm about Trunks didn't happen in universes 16 and 18, but in 12 (and maybe 14...)

In some other universes, some events of some other movies did happen.

By "I frankly don't know why they know Coola and how he died in their universes", I guess he still hasn't (or hadn't back then) come up with Coola's story?

[DNA]

I think you might have misunderstood me, cuz I agree with that sentiment. I was just pointing out that a lot of people do use it as a valid point, when I don't think it really has impact on anything at all.

No, I did not misunderstand you, I was adding to it.

By "I frankly don't know why they know Coola and how he died in their universes", I guess he still hasn't (or hadn't back then) come up with Coola's story?

Movies 8, 9 and 10 happened, which contradicts with the manga completely. It does not matter how much he twists and turns, he is trying to retcon the manga to serve his purposes, which is worse than what GT ever did.

[RandomGuy96]

1, 5, 9, and 13 all fit in the timeline, and contain some good potential fighters, so I don't have a problem with three out of four of those being thrown in there. Manga purism is boring.

I DO, however, mind that Salagir changed basically everything about Broly and made him his pet character. I think we should come up with a new name to differentiate the two Brolys...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Movies 8, 9 and 10 happened, which contradicts with the manga completely. It does not matter how much he twists and turns, he is trying to retcon the manga to serve his purposes, which is worse than what GT ever did.

No, he just follows the manga & said movies. By your logic, DBM contradicts the manga because it never happened in the manga.

[DNA]

1, 5, 9, and 13 all fit in the timeline, and contain some good potential fighters, so I don't have a problem with three out of four of those being thrown in there. Manga purism is boring.

No, he just follows the manga & said movies. By your logic, DBM contradicts the manga because it never happened in the manga.

It's not about how I, or you, feel about it. It's about Salagir claiming manga purism and then contradicting it with his own actions. He can't claim his doujinshi is closer to the manga and then retcon it with movies that contradict the original work. That's hypocritical and flat out stupid.

I would be more lenient if Salagir wasn't so arrogant about his own work.

About Broli, I would have taken a very different course and eliminated so many universes. Instead of the savage Saiyans and the Super Saiyans, I would merge them both.
Broli was spared and wasn't insane, instead he was revered and viewed as a sort of messiah. King Vegeta kept quiet and awaited his opportunity. After a few years Broli was vastly stronger and could achieve the Super Saiyan form, so the Saiyans led a campaign against the Freeza Clan and we're somehow victorious. Mostly thanks to Broli's immense power. From there a prosperous era began for the Saiyans, with some of them achieving Super Saiyan.

Participants; Vegeta and Kakarrotto as Super Saiyans from Universe 13, Bardock as a pre-cog Super Saiyan from Universe 3, you eliminate the need for Universe 20's Broli and the Saiyans from Universe 10. Broli could tap into Legendary Super Saiyan 3, he could potentially go toe-to-toe with Gogeta, never with Vegetto though.

I've just eliminated the bullshit of 4 universes, condensing them into one.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No, he doesn't retcon anything from the manga events for the movies. We don't see Bardock's story in the manga, so he puts an alternative TVS1 there. We don't see what happens during the 10 days, so he puts an alternative M8 there. We don't see what happens during the 7 years, so he puts M9 there. We don't see what happens during the month before the 25th TB, so he puts an alternative M10 there. We don't see what happens to Tapion, Dr. Raichi, Coola, XXI, etc before the manga, nor we are ever told if they exist or not, so he has them dead in the manga (presumably). We don't see what happens 10 years after the end of the manga, so he puts DBM there.

[DNA]

No, he doesn't retcon anything from the manga events for the movies. We don't see Bardock's story in the manga, so he puts an alternative TVS1 there. We don't see what happens during the 10 days, so he puts an alternative M8 there. We don't see what happens during the 7 years, so he puts M9 there. We don't see what happens during the month before the 25th TB, so he puts an alternative M10 there. We don't see what happens to Tapion, Dr. Raichi, Coola, XXI, etc before the manga, nor we are ever told if they exist or not, so he has them dead in the manga (presumably). We don't see what happens 10 years after the end of the manga, so he puts DBM there.

Yes, that is the definition of ret-conning. Adding stuff to where previously was nothing.