Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Trunks was giving Cold time

I just re-read the scene in manga. Nope, he doesn't.

When trunks tells them go full power, he is actually telling both of them he'll go at full power directly, that he isn't as nice as goku. At the moment they don't take him seriously.
Then he turns SSJ, kills freeza, and faces Cold. A Cold that just saw Trunks killing freeza without letting him any chance, a Trunks who said he wasn't nice. Cold knows he is in a bad situation. They talk. If Cold stopped talking to transform, what's to say Trunks would wait ? He wouldn't. At the precise moment Cold attacks with the sword, Cold dies in the next 2 seconds.
I really don't see how Cold could ever transform in this whole scene.

I don't know what the French translation says, and I'm too lazy to look for the Japanese one, but the English version point blankly says "You'd better bring everything you've got at me. I'm no pushover...like Son Goku." If Cold had the ability to transform and stopped to do so instead of ignoring his opponent's gesture, or transformed instead of asking for the sword, Trunks would have waited. He just told them he would.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The Daizenshuu also flat out state Freeza is stronger than his father.

The Daizenshuu are non-canon to DBM. Only the Manga & Movie 9 are canon to DBM, right?

BTW, Salagir, what is the DBM canon? Is there anything else other than the Manga & Movie 9 that is canon?

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't know what the French translation says, and I'm too lazy to look for the Japanese one, but the English version point blankly says "You'd better bring everything you've got at me. I'm no pushover...like Son Goku." If Cold had the ability to transform and stopped to do so instead of ignoring his opponent's gesture, or transformed instead of asking for the sword, Trunks would have waited. He just told them he would.

Not to mention, when in Dragon Ball has anyone ever not had the time to transform? Although, for the record, I did like how in the Bardock special the Saiyans killed Freeza mid-transformation. That kind of pragmatism in the alternate universes is nice to see. I assume U9 is full of that kind of thing.

[TheMightyOzaru]

If he isn't using official material, why should I take anything in this series seriously?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Not to mention, when in Dragon Ball has anyone ever not had the time to transform?

Trunks tried to hit Cell when he was transforming into his Perfect Form... and he raised a barrier.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't know what the French translation says, and I'm too lazy to look for the Japanese one, but the English version point blankly says "You'd better bring everything you've got at me. I'm no pushover...like Son Goku." If Cold had the ability to transform and stopped to do so instead of ignoring his opponent's gesture, or transformed instead of asking for the sword, Trunks would have waited. He just told them he would.

Not to mention, when in Dragon Ball has anyone ever not had the time to transform? Although, for the record, I did like how in the Bardock special the Saiyans killed Freeza mid-transformation. That kind of pragmatism in the alternate universes is nice to see. I assume U9 is full of that kind of thing.

In the anime, don't remember what happened in the manga, Krillin and Trunk tried to attack Cell when he was transforming into his perfect form. It didn't work, but it makes sense, and it makes you wonder why they never tried it before.
As for the time for transformations, that's hard to tell in the manga, but at the very least, Freeza's final transformation took some time. While he was transforming, Dende had time to fish Piccolo out of the water, heal him, be convinced by Piccolo to heal Vegeta, fly over to Vegeta, and heal him, so I'm guessing that the transformation took at least a minute or two.

[DNA]

You look pissed, DNA. I'll try to answer.

I am far from pissed, at this point I don't even care much.

I don't remember calling you directly a fucker

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 80#p671573

You know when you complained about someone omitting half your reply? You just did the same. That is what I describe as calling someone a name "indirectly", which means, I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just referring to you as that. If you wish to take it as offensive, feel free to do it.

BTW, as you can write better material than me, why don't you do it? I do am open to suggestion you know. I refuse a lot, that's true, but it's worth the shot.
The earthling universe most of you seem to hate IS a suggestion after all :)

You've been reading my posts, I've been suggesting things you could have done. Yeah, I'm sure I could write better material, I don't do it because I've got many other concerns in my life at the moment to be wasting my time with fanfics. So, I'm not going to do that.

[RandomGuy96]

* When people talk about Freeza's Ki, as most of them never saw him, we don't know who's ki they are actually talking about.

What does this have to do with anything? Everyone senses two enormous ki levels. While Yamcha is crapping his pants at them, Gohan says that these levels are pathetically weak compared to what Freeza can REALLY do.

* Number 1 in the universe was used by Vegeta before. By Barta also for speed, although even Ginyu might be faster than him. Also, isn't Coola number 1 and not his brother then ? (anime only) And it's also Freeza's revenge. His father isn't going to cut him every 2 lines saying "Nope, I am the strongest". To conclude, as a father preparing his son to take his place, it's also possible that he doesn't bother him with that.

Cooler was the strongest in the universe, but no one but him knew, since he told Goku no one else ever saw his transformation.

It's more than just a generic boast. It's Cold flat out saying that Freeza is stronger than him when he says not once but TWICE that anyone that can beat Freeza is the strongest person in the universe.

* Demons can't control themselves when powering up too much, that's why they go in reduced form (said by freeza). I decided that if Cold transforms, he destroys a little too much around him. That's why he would think twice before doing that. You will see that told in the fanfic "One way", first chapter released a few hours ago. In DBM Cold now controls himself like his sons. This is a personal add-on, but it goes by DBZ logic.

Freeza never said that. He said that HE can't control himself. Nothing specific about his species. And Cold is very clearly in a different form than Freeza's second.

It doesn't go by DBZ logic, because in DBZ, Cold flat-out said Freeza > him. It's not his transformations that are the problem- I don't think he can transform, but if you want him to, go right ahead, as long as his power stays at it's canon level (i.e. just about anything above base Trunks and below Freeza). But when you start having to retcon things in the manga to explain away plot points that DON'T NEED TO BE THERE and serve no purpose in the grand scheme of things, maybe it's time to take a step back.

Again, what was the point? Why does Cold have to be stronger than Freeza? How does that serve the plot in any way? Does he need to be that strong to beat Videl? No, in fact it would be absurd if he couldn't beat her at his canon level. Super Saiyan Bardock? No again- this is another person who he could roflstomp at his canon level bar massive Bardock wank and bullcrap power ups. And even if you do want to make these characters much stronger than they logically should be for the purposes of their universes, why does Cold have to be the one to beat them? Why not Cooler? His 'canon' strength actually IS far above Freeza (nowhere near 16, obviously) at least (this is repeatedly stated in the movie, and at one point he tanks an attack that was implied to be enough to kill Freeza), so why can't he advance instead? Why did he have to get roflstomped in the first round by an over leveled opponent instead of Cold? I actually kind of get the feeling that you hate him (and Dabura).

But everything can be bent a little (by me) and change that. I changed that because I had my own view on the "frost demons".

You say that you follow the manga. You say that GT sucks because it doesn't. But then in the very next breath you say that you can change things from the manga because they don't fit your view?

You can disagree, but I prefer this version, because it's more credible, for me.

Credible? Your fanfiction is more credible than the original work? What?

Remember this comic where another of Freeza's family arrive, after 50 years in ice, and because of that, wipes the floor with SSJ3 saiyans ? Any comment ?

Never read it, don't want to.

For Cold, it's interesting that you can't bear him being about #16 level. Some of my team was seeing him at SSJ Full Power easily !

I presume this team has never read the manga...? Cold admits inferiority to Freeza at least three times, but I don't think I need to repeat that.

The distance between freeza and #16 is quite small I think, in the grand scheme of power levels of all DBZ ^^

Freeza is 120,000,000. He got completely humiliated by Namek Goku, at 150,000,000. He got a mechanical upgrade that made him think that he could now equal or beat that 150,000,000 power level. However, this other Super Saiyan comes back and kills him in seconds. This Super Saiyan admits inferiority to the new and improved Goku, and the superiority is such that Goku can deflect all of his blows with one finger, and Trunks fanboys over his power, calling it greater than the legends. He then reveals that he and another Super Saiyan (who's almost as strong as him) are still no match for the future androids. Goku and co train 3 straight years, during which they all improve, with Piccolo now being compared to a Super Saiyan and saying that he "doesn't lack confidence" against foes that roflstomp Trunks. However, we learn that Vegeta is even stronger than Goku now. All seems to be going well until Trunks shows up again and says that, though they can take the androids from his time if they work together, these new androids are completely ridiculous in their power. These new androids proceed to annihilate the entire gang in minutes. Then Piccolo gets an upgrade by fusing with Kami that let's him match one of the androids in combat... but before he fights the androids, he comes across this creature called Cell. This guy's weaker than him, but stronger than the Super Saiyans by their own admission, and has the potential to get stronger by absorbing humans and androids. He escapes Piccolo, who goes on to fight an even battle with 17 before Cell shows up. Having gotten much stronger, he TANKS a heavily amplified attack from Piccolo and breaks his neck with one punch, and then proceeds to easily beat down 17 as well. Just when it looks like all is lost... 16 jumps in and fights Cell to a standstill, even gaining a nice advantage near the end.

Android 16
Imperfect Cell
(BIG GAP)
Present Androids
Initial Cell
Android Arc Vegeta/Goku
Future Androids
Android Arc Trunks/Piccolo
Sick Goku
Yardrat Goku
Mecha Arc Trunks
Future Gohan
Mecha Freeza
Namek Goku
Freeza
Suppressed Mecha Freeza
King Cold

Do you see how far off he is now?

Then he turns SSJ, kills freeza, and faces Cold. A Cold that just saw Trunks killing freeza without letting him any chance, a Trunks who said he wasn't nice. Cold knows he is in a bad situation. They talk. If Cold stopped talking to transform, what's to say Trunks would wait ? He wouldn't. At the precise moment Cold attacks with the sword, Cold dies in the next 2 seconds.

That wouldn't matter a bit. Remember when Trunks tried to attack Perfect Cell mid-transformation? It didn't do a damn thing because Cell was just that much stronger. With your haxxed Cold being around Android 16 level in his final form and above even Cooler in his third (...REALLY!?), he would've just no-selled Trunks' attacks the same way Cell did.

Let's take a step back here for a moment. Let's assume Cold could become that strong. Okay. Why didn't he transform the minute he got to Earth? He knows he's fighting someone stronger than Freeza, what the hell did he think was going to happen? Did he think that his enemy was going to sit there and let him transform? Well, he would've been justified in thinking that, because he totally did. Yet Cold didn't transform, because...? If Goku had actually showed up, what would Cold do? What was his plan? In what situation does this end well for this dumbass?

Furthermore, in Universe 9 (I think? The one Trunks is from), Goku was the one who dispatched Freeza and Cold. He would surely have let them transform. How did that universe survive? Why did no one bother telling Trunks how strong Cold supposedly was before he went back into the past?

[miguelnuva1]

My thing on cold was he was stronger than Frieza and Cooler in the same form but they had more potential so they could go form 3 and form 4 or something like that.

Basically Cold was born in form 2 and had to power up that way whole Cooler and Frieza where born in form 5. Cooler is older and weaker so his power doesn't bother him as much as Frieza but he was able to reach a form 5.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Maybe Cold couldn't control his power when he was on Earth, which could be why he wasn't taking his next forms into account when saying that whoever beat Freeza would be the strongest.

[Cold Skin]

In the manga, it is implied that Freezer is stronger than Cold, since Cold tells Freezer to eliminate the Super Saiyan for the N°1 must be in their family, implying that if Freezer won, he would be N°1 and thus Cold would not be high-ranked.

But in the anime, it's more ambiguous: there is this same reply which would again state that Freezer is stronger than Cold, but before that, when the enemies are approaching Earth in their spaceship and everyone flies towards the landing area, Vegeta is thinking that to top it all, there seems to be an even bigger power than Freezer's right next to him, implying Cold is more powerful.

So it is unambiguous in the manga, but quite ambiguous in the anime.

[TonyTheTiger]

Tell you what, Salagir. We will cease all bitching if THE PACT can live. Deal?

[Marco Polo]

[miguelnuva1]

Can't wait for Vegito or XXI to own Buu over this.

[RandomGuy96]

I can't wait for Buu to own Vegetto.

[miguelnuva1]

I can't wait for Buu to own Vegetto.

Near impossible without PIS.

[RandomGuy96]

PIS? This Buu is way stronger than SS2 Vegetto due to eating billions (?) of powerful people and possesses multiple attacks that can kill even SS3 Vegetto in one hit. He also has haxxed regeneration and teleportation. And Vegetto's SS3 only lasts 5 seconds. It would be MASSIVE PIS if Buu lost.

[Draken]

PIS? This Buu is way stronger than SS2 Vegetto due to eating billions (?) of powerful people and possesses multiple attacks that can kill even SS3 Vegetto in one hit. He also has haxxed regeneration and teleportation. And Vegetto's SS3 only lasts 5 seconds. It would be MASSIVE PIS if Buu lost.

Vegetto uses Toei animation.
It's super effective!
Time is now slowed.
Vegetto kills Buu.

[dbzfan7]

PIS? This Buu is way stronger than SS2 Vegetto due to eating billions (?) of powerful people and possesses multiple attacks that can kill even SS3 Vegetto in one hit. He also has haxxed regeneration and teleportation. And Vegetto's SS3 only lasts 5 seconds. It would be MASSIVE PIS if Buu lost.

I don't know where your getting way stronger than SSJ2. Salagir puts SSJ2 Vegetto and Zen Boo on the same tier. He then comments on SSJ3 Vegetto saying that it would still be hard for him to kill Boo entirely. Zen Boo was shocked at Broly and SSJ2 Vegetto's strength.

[RandomGuy96]

PIS? This Buu is way stronger than SS2 Vegetto due to eating billions (?) of powerful people and possesses multiple attacks that can kill even SS3 Vegetto in one hit. He also has haxxed regeneration and teleportation. And Vegetto's SS3 only lasts 5 seconds. It would be MASSIVE PIS if Buu lost.

I don't know where your getting way stronger than SSJ2. Salagir puts SSJ2 Vegetto and Zen Boo on the same tier. He then comments on SSJ3 Vegetto saying that it would still be hard for him to kill Boo entirely. Zen Boo was shocked at Broly and SSJ2 Vegetto's strength.

Zen Buu also said that he may have to end the fight, implying that he could.

SS3 Vegetto has five seconds to use his only attack capable of completely killing Buu. Buu has as long as he wants to use one of the many attacks he has that can kill SS3 Vegetto. And he can just teleport away to nowhere for five seconds until Vegetto's time is up. I don't see how they're going to win without it being bullshit in some way.

And I swear to god, if Gogeta shows up and is able to not get one shotted by Buu...