Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:12 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:10 pm
And once again the actual Dragonball Plot is ignored. Vegeta was able to resist Babidi and Bra is just as stubborn and more powerful then he was. Unless she just wanted to fight her brother, control ssj2 better or maybe wants to fight her Dad and I don't see how Bra fell to the spell.
That's actually the only reason CELL allowed himself to be controlled; at least, in the novelization. He was curious about Babidi's grander scheme, knew he'd get to fight Gohan if he played along, and fully expected that he'd be able to break free later. He's even capable of shielding his own thoughts from Babidi, if he tries hard enough.

So yes, it could very well be that Bra is doing the same.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Regarder » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:45 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:10 pm
And once again the actual Dragonball Plot is ignored. Vegeta was able to resist Babidi and Bra is just as stubborn and more powerful then he was.
Wait. Are you sure that Bra has as much mental fortitude as Vegeta? Also, does the power of your ki even come into this? It could easily be that Bra wants to be controlled for some reason, but I don't think it's ignoring the Dragonball Plot if she isn't, because we don't know whether Bra is truly as strong in the mind as Vegeta.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:05 am

Regarder wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:45 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:10 pm
And once again the actual Dragonball Plot is ignored. Vegeta was able to resist Babidi and Bra is just as stubborn and more powerful then he was.
Wait. Are you sure that Bra has as much mental fortitude as Vegeta? Also, does the power of your ki even come into this? It could easily be that Bra wants to be controlled for some reason, but I don't think it's ignoring the Dragonball Plot if she isn't, because we don't know whether Bra is truly as strong in the mind as Vegeta.
It was Vegeta's stubbornness I believe. I do remember He let Babidi in on purpose and then refuse to obey once he got the power up and fight he wanted.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:58 am

Regarder wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:45 pm
Wait. Are you sure that Bra has as much mental fortitude as Vegeta?
Most likely not. Vegetto & her are both relatively unstable, compared to the other characters; enough so that Raichi's "pain & sadness" attack affected them worse than even most of the other characters.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:38 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:58 am
Regarder wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:45 pm
Wait. Are you sure that Bra has as much mental fortitude as Vegeta?
Most likely not. Vegetto & her are both relatively unstable, compared to the other characters; enough so that Raichi's "pain & sadness" attack affected them worse than even most of the other characters.
Another stupid plot point. Vegito should be the most stable and calculating character in the series.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by HeroR » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:56 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:58 am
Regarder wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:45 pm
Wait. Are you sure that Bra has as much mental fortitude as Vegeta?
Most likely not. Vegetto & her are both relatively unstable, compared to the other characters; enough so that Raichi's "pain & sadness" attack affected them worse than even most of the other characters.

Vegito and Bra are more unstable than a man who sold his soul and convictions just so he could settled a decade long feud and be evil again?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:47 am

HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:56 am
Vegito and Bra are more unstable than a man who sold his soul and convictions just so he could settled a decade long feud and be evil again?
Think of it this way; Vegito is literally two completely different personalities awkwardly smashed into one. Obviously that's going to cause some problems with his brain chemistry... So he's got what basically amounts to a mental disorder.

However, because he DOES have such strong morals, because he DOES have so many positive people in his life, and because he IS so disciplined, it doesn't usually cause him any major problems. He's learned to live with it, and structure his life to where his tendencies help, and not hurt, him.

Kind of like me with my Asperger's & OCD. I'm technically on the spectrum... But I'm so high functioning, that you wouldn't usually ever notice.

Bra, however, inherited her father's brain chemistry... And Bulma herself isn't exactly normal, either. As a child, she hasn't fully matured the way Vegito has; so this "disorder" (for lack of a better term) is much more pronounced in her because of that.

At least, what I take out of the whole thing. Keep in mind that the novelization never explained things quite like that (that I know of)... This is just my interpretation.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by HeroR » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:56 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:47 am
HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:56 am
Vegito and Bra are more unstable than a man who sold his soul and convictions just so he could settled a decade long feud and be evil again?
Think of it this way; Vegito is literally two completely different personalities awkwardly smashed into one. Obviously that's going to cause some problems with his brain chemistry... So he's got what basically amounts to a mental disorder.

However, because he DOES have such strong morals, because he DOES have so many positive people in his life, and because he IS so disciplined, it doesn't usually cause him any major problems. He's learned to live with it, and structure his life to where his tendencies help, and not hurt, him.

Kind of like me with my Asperger's & OCD. I'm technically on the spectrum... But I'm so high functioning, that you wouldn't usually ever notice.

Bra, however, inherited her father's brain chemistry... And Bulma herself isn't exactly normal, either. As a child, she hasn't fully matured the way Vegito has; so this "disorder" (for lack of a better term) is much more pronounced in her because of that.

At least, what I take out of the whole thing. Keep in mind that the novelization never explained things quite like that (that I know of)... This is just my interpretation.
I don't see it. Vegito is his own person, he isn't just Goku and Vegeta smashed together. It isn't like Kibito Kai was unstable despite being the fusion of two different people or Old Kai for that matter how merged with a witch. The same with Gotenks who's stable despite being two kids mixed together, he's just an idiot.

Bulma is pretty normal for a genius and the world she lives in. Abnormal would be her dad.

So saying that Vegito is more unstable than a former mass murderer who sold his soul for power is stretching it for me.

Bra, honestly has no excuse. She not only have the care of her mother, but the entire support system of Goku's family, especially Gohan, and friends. She shouldn't be that unstable.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:16 am

HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:56 am
I don't see it. Vegito is his own person, he isn't just Goku and Vegeta smashed together. It isn't like Kibito Kai was unstable despite being the fusion of two different people or Old Kai for that matter how merged with a witch. The same with Gotenks who's stable despite being two kids mixed together, he's just an idiot.
The Kais are a different breed altogether. I wouldn't compare their results to regular beings
HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:56 am
Bulma is pretty normal for a genius and the world she lives in. Abnormal would be her dad.
That's... I don't agree with you there. Remember, this is the SAME woman that CHOSE to get hitched to Vegeta... despite knowing everything he did. Also brought her baby son to a dangerous fight with Androids #19 & #20 so...

Not a bad person, but, I think it's a stretch to call her "normal".
HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:56 am
So saying that Vegito is more unstable than a former mass murderer who sold his soul for power is stretching it for me.
Hmm... I think I see the confusion, now. I worded what I said poorly. See, what I meant was that BRA was the only one who would fall to Babidi.

Vegito has the same brain chemistry that made Bra so susceptible, but he's disciplined and mature enough that I'm guessing he could still resist Babidi's influence. It'd be harder for him than it would be if he was a non-fused entity... But he could probably still do it.

So no, I'm NOT saying he's less stable than Vegeta. Sorry for the confusion.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by HeroR » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:04 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:16 am
HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:56 am
I don't see it. Vegito is his own person, he isn't just Goku and Vegeta smashed together. It isn't like Kibito Kai was unstable despite being the fusion of two different people or Old Kai for that matter how merged with a witch. The same with Gotenks who's stable despite being two kids mixed together, he's just an idiot.
The Kais are a different breed altogether. I wouldn't compare their results to regular beings
HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:56 am
Bulma is pretty normal for a genius and the world she lives in. Abnormal would be her dad.
That's... I don't agree with you there. Remember, this is the SAME woman that CHOSE to get hitched to Vegeta... despite knowing everything he did. Also brought her baby son to a dangerous fight with Androids #19 & #20 so...

Not a bad person, but, I think it's a stretch to call her "normal".
HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:56 am
So saying that Vegito is more unstable than a former mass murderer who sold his soul for power is stretching it for me.
Hmm... I think I see the confusion, now. I worded what I said poorly. See, what I meant was that BRA was the only one who would fall to Babidi.

Vegito has the same brain chemistry that made Bra so susceptible, but he's disciplined and mature enough that I'm guessing he could still resist Babidi's influence. It'd be harder for him than it would be if he was a non-fused entity... But he could probably still do it.

So no, I'm NOT saying he's less stable than Vegeta. Sorry for the confusion.
Zamasu has shown us that the Kais are not that different from mortals. They can have mental issues and twisted moralities. We also see this with more 'stable' Kais like Ro.

Most of the cast more or less forgave Vegeta after he killed some of them outside of Tien. So not sure why Bulma is held as not being normal, especially when her relationship started as a one night stand and didn't developed into something deeper until he became a less evil. And in terms of the Dragon World, she's pretty normal.

The thing with Bra, if Vegeta if all people can tell Babidi to go screw himself and even used Babidi to achieved his own ends, I'm not sure why Bra would fall under his spell. She's part Vegeta and just as stubbornly, prideful as him. She was also raised by Bulma, who's also stubborn and prideful in her own right. I also disagree that Vegito has the same brain chemistry since Bra is more than just Vegito.

And going back to what I said before, "Bra, honestly has no excuse. She not only have the care of her mother, but the entire support system of Goku's family, especially Gohan, and friends. She shouldn't be that unstable".
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kanassa » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:09 pm

HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:04 pm
The thing with Bra, if Vegeta if all people can tell Babidi to go screw himself and even used Babidi to achieved his own ends, I'm not sure why Bra would fall under his spell. She's part Vegeta and just as stubbornly, prideful as him. She was also raised by Bulma, who's also stubborn and prideful in her own right. I also disagree that Vegito has the same brain chemistry since Bra is more than just Vegito.
I also don't see how Vegito's brain would be more susceptible to mind control when he's made up of the combined mental fortitude of two people who could shrug off Babidi's control.

I'd also say that this whole idea of fusion messing up Vegito's brain chemistry is laughable and is definitely not what this story is going for.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:10 pm

I don't fall in the "If Bra's daddy could break free, she could." conversation. Because you can apply that logic to anyone there who was an ally of good but fell to Babidi's control, like that Heliote. Alternatively, Bra is just weak willed. We've seen her as a child and as an adult, one foot off the edge of complete batshit, and the other foot off the edge of utter antipathy towards everything and everyone. She could just be, mentally weak.

Anyways, who's excited for the All Human Universe Special. It's kind of funny that there has been so many artists cancelling on this particular special, extreme fanboyism, or weird AF coincidences. Should be interesting to see, if nothing else.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by HeroR » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:28 pm

Kanassa wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:09 pm
HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:04 pm
The thing with Bra, if Vegeta if all people can tell Babidi to go screw himself and even used Babidi to achieved his own ends, I'm not sure why Bra would fall under his spell. She's part Vegeta and just as stubbornly, prideful as him. She was also raised by Bulma, who's also stubborn and prideful in her own right. I also disagree that Vegito has the same brain chemistry since Bra is more than just Vegito.
I also don't see how Vegito's brain would be more susceptible to mind control when he's made up of the combined mental fortitude of two people who could shrug off Babidi's control.

I'd also say that this whole idea of fusion messing up Vegito's brain chemistry is laughable and is definitely not what this story is going for.
Well, in Goku's case, he's outright immune to mind control since his heart is pure and lack any evil for Babidi to manipulate. So it really isn't 'fortitude' in his case. That said, despite his easygoing nature, Goku is just as prideful and as stubborn as Vegeta and I can imagined him telling Babidi to fuck off if he was susceptible to his charm. I mean, this is the same person who glared down Beerus about to Haki him and still did what he wanted.

I think the story is trying to tell us that Vegito is messed up in the head because Vegeta still had evil in his heart when he fused with Goku. But it really doesn't make much sense for him to be as messed up as he is since he is still part Goku that part that is Goku should be able to control the evil that was still in Vegeta. At the very least he shouldn't be crazy to the point of humoring killing Gohan at one point.
FoolsGil wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:10 pm
I don't fall in the "If Bra's daddy could break free, she could." conversation. Because you can apply that logic to anyone there who was an ally of good but fell to Babidi's control, like that Heliote. Alternatively, Bra is just weak willed. We've seen her as a child and as an adult, one foot off the edge of complete batshit, and the other foot off the edge of utter antipathy towards everything and everyone. She could just be, mentally weak.

Anyways, who's excited for the All Human Universe Special. It's kind of funny that there has been so many artists cancelling on this particular special, extreme fanboyism, or weird AF coincidences. Should be interesting to see, if nothing else.
I could see her being mentally weak, if it wasn't for the fact that Vegeta fought off the mind control because he's a prideful asshole, just like Bra. Then again, Bra could be just a poser, which wouldn't shock me.

I really don't care for the upcoming special since it just delayed the main story even more than it already has. To me, the point where I care about the humans has long pass and I just want to subplot with the Majins to finally end.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:31 pm

HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:28 pm
I could see her being mentally weak, if it wasn't for the fact that Vegeta fought off the mind control because he's a prideful asshole, just like Bra.
Well, Goten is Goku's son, how come Goten is not just as strong as Goku, or as good strategist of a warrior? Because he slacks off, or doesn't train, or doesn't have the aptitude, or something else, or maybe all those reasons, but no matter what, Goten isn't Goku, doesn't matter if they're blood linked.

Same with Bra and Vegeta. She isn't his clone. She is her own person.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kanassa » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:44 pm

HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:28 pm
I think the story is trying to tell us that Vegito is messed up in the head because Vegeta still had evil in his heart when he fused with Goku.
No, I'm pretty sure the angel the story is going for with Vegito is that he's basically Beerus without the other Gods and Zeno (I know Multiverse was made before BoG, but it's a good descriptor). A character whose aim was always to get stronger, reach higher peaks and fight strong opponents... Only to find that they've grown so powerful that there's nowhere else to really go, growing bored, apathetic and desperate for someone to match them which is increased in annoyance for them because Vegito is the fusion of two battle hungry saiyans.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by HeroR » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:44 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:31 pm
HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:28 pm
I could see her being mentally weak, if it wasn't for the fact that Vegeta fought off the mind control because he's a prideful asshole, just like Bra.
Well, Goten is Goku's son, how come Goten is not just as strong as Goku, or as good strategist of a warrior? Because he slacks off, or doesn't train, or doesn't have the aptitude, or something else, or maybe all those reasons, but no matter what, Goten isn't Goku, doesn't matter if they're blood linked.

Same with Bra and Vegeta. She isn't his clone. She is her own person.
Goten is far, far stronger than Goku at the same age. So this point kinda falls.

And Bra is basically Vegeta. A prideful asshole. The freaking author even uses Vegeta to deflect any flaws of Bra as sexist.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:53 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:31 pm
HeroR wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:28 pm
I could see her being mentally weak, if it wasn't for the fact that Vegeta fought off the mind control because he's a prideful asshole, just like Bra.
Well, Goten is Goku's son, how come Goten is not just as strong as Goku, or as good strategist of a warrior? Because he slacks off, or doesn't train, or doesn't have the aptitude, or something else, or maybe all those reasons, but no matter what, Goten isn't Goku, doesn't matter if they're blood linked.

Same with Bra and Vegeta. She isn't his clone. She is her own person.
Bra acts just like Vegeta does. Powerful and stubborn. As for Vegito himself we have be beaten over the head with Goku and Vegeta fix each other's weaknesses more than they clash once they fuse.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Brikikoz » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:46 am

People forget Vegeta didn't fully resist Babidi, he killed a ton of people with zero remorse. It should also be noted his compassion started to seep back in when the wizard completely lost interest in him after Buu revived. Babidi also didn't even really bother to try mind controlling Vegeta again when he rebelled. Babidi just told Buu to kill him spitefully, as is his style of throwing away minions once their use is over.

As for Vegetto, this isn't the 1 episode wonder who vanished fast of DBZ, this is a character who's had 20 years of being the strongest in the universe. He's not the same person, so Salagir has basically free reign to evolve him at this point. Goku's character has always be almost criminally irresponsible when he wants a fight, and Vegeta's still a jerk, even when he died in the Buu saga, so Vegetto isn't exactly a noble hero. The Bra raised by him isn't going to be the nicest person either, influenced by Goku's selfish desire for constant fighting stimulation and Vegeta's underdog complex.

The story has repeatedly said that Bra has anger, spite, and revenge issues, which make for easy prey for Babidi's magic. The Special "Son Bra's little problem" practically foreshadowed this; some people skip the specials and forget they have impact down the line.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:58 am

Brikikoz wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:46 am
People forget Vegeta didn't fully resist Babidi, he killed a ton of people with zero remorse. It should also be noted his compassion started to seep back in when the wizard completely lost interest in him after Buu revived. Babidi also didn't even really bother to try mind controlling Vegeta again when he rebelled. Babidi just told Buu to kill him spitefully, as is his style of throwing away minions once their use is over.

As for Vegetto, this isn't the 1 episode wonder who vanished fast of DBZ, this is a character who's had 20 years of being the strongest in the universe. He's not the same person, so Salagir has basically free reign to evolve him at this point. Goku's character has always be almost criminally irresponsible when he wants a fight, and Vegeta's still a jerk, even when he died in the Buu saga, so Vegetto isn't exactly a noble hero. The Bra raised by him isn't going to be the nicest person either, influenced by Goku's selfish desire for constant fighting stimulation and Vegeta's underdog complex.

The story has repeatedly said that Bra has anger, spite, and revenge issues, which make for easy prey for Babidi's magic. The Special "Son Bra's little problem" practically foreshadowed this; some people skip the specials and forget they have impact down the line.
Vegeta killed those people to piss off Goku and he knew they would be restored with the Dragonballs. I'm 90% sure I remember hearing the second part and am positive on the first. Babidi also didn't try anymore because Vegeta was impossible to control. Kaioshin and Babidi are both shocked Vegeta can't be controlled and Dabura tells him their getting the energy they want anyway.

Bra has all the tools and traits that Vegeta has to resit Babidi and then some. Vegito has even more, if those two were brought under his spell it should be because they want something. In this case Bra wanted to fight Gohan, her dad and just control her ssj2 would be more than enough.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:06 am

We aren't our parents. We may be like them, but we aren't them. We can easily agree with that, but why we can't apply that same logic to Bra and Vegeta, I just don't understand.
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