DragonBall Z Abridged

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MegaBossMan
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by MegaBossMan » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:28 am

A superb encapsulation of everything that made the original SSJ2 transformation work; the staggering build-up, the climactic crunch, the somber silence all building into a symphonic torrent of unbridled emotion and apprehension and... really, a death of innocence. The insert song then fills in (it couldn't be anything but Unmei no Hi!), we have a teary-eyed Gohan ablaze with emotion, with special attention here being placed on Goku's reactions. None of it necessarily makes it feels like Toriyama's brand of Dragon Ball, but isn't it all the more amazing that it still feels like Dragon Ball? This scene and Vegeta's sacrifice are easily among the fan favorites of the community, and there's no doubt why; even if their respective arcs are jumbled in direction, they're all at least built up throughout the entirety of the series. Of course, I'm not noting anything about the abridged take here, but there in lies the point; it's so well-crafted from its love of the series that it's well-aware nothing needed fixing here. It was perfect as is and seeked to retain and convey that pristine perfection yet again.
(Perfect Cell would be honored at least)

The broken arm and Vegeta Jr. nods were humorous little touches; they could have been lazy nods but again, the intent was made with love so it felt genuine. Showcasing Hercule's bravery was also a pleasant change of pace and segues well into how his character begins to shape in the Buu arc. Taka's Perfect Cell performance is also quite phenomenal, calling specific attention to his quiet snarky side comments. However, I do have minor subjective critiques, not because they're bad per se but I did happen to lose some sense of immersion. The "keikaku" translator's gag, while I'm aware of the context, comes across as somewhat alienating to general fans and breaks the pacing of the video somewhat. I will note that while I am aware of these awkward translator's bits in general Japanese manga or anime, I'm not aware if the keikaku bit is specifically referencing some obscure Dragon Ball translation I'm not aware of so maybe it isn't so odd. The only other thing was the running gag of the imitating "that's what you are" bit, while funny the first time around, really gets pounded to death in a quick three minutes then suddenly stops breathing and goes away for the remainder (of part 1, anyway). The repeated instances come across as fluff to pad out between the intro and first act, lacking any real pay-off. But, the question is does any of this really hurt the video? Not really, but I've need something to complain about to hide my universal love for this episode.

Simply wonderful.
Last edited by MegaBossMan on Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by zDBZ » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:29 am

So far, so funny! Loved the callbacks, the running lines, and most of all, I loved the Marvin the Martian reference.

Oh, and Kaiser?

[spoiler]IIRC, you once said that you liked that Gohan was more bookish and pacifistic, but that he shouldn't have been made the person with the most latent power in the series then. To me, the speech you guys wrote for #16 stresses the very reason I like that Gohan is both the pacifist and the strongest. "With great power comes great responsibility" isn't just about abusing that power; it's also about using it against your own inclinations when great need arises, and Gohan having to deal with that was a great story point in both the Cell and Buu arcs (at least until Gotenks-Buu and fusion earrings derailed it.)[/spoiler]

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:56 am

Tian wrote:I LOL' d when Cell named his offspring after his English voice actors
Hah. I didn't notice that immediately. Though one minor nitpick I have about that is Jonathan Cook from the Final Bout game was referenced, but Ben Jeffrey from Blue Water's GT wasn't.
I can see why, given Cell was basically just a cameo in GT, and ultimately Final Bout has a lot more exposure to the wider fandom than Blue Water's GT, but... Series > game, in my view... But y'know, minor nitpick in an excellent in-joke. :lol:
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:00 am

I'll be very disappointed if the next part doesn't start with Gohan threatening to break Cell like a Kit-Kat bar.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:15 am

I am itching for the full version of the song to come out now. It's weird to think that for many English fans, this would be their first exposure to it. A tragedy Toei didn't bring it back for Kai. Didn't even put it in the FighterZ music pack, philistines.

EDIT: Oh, the full version is already on iTunes. WELL GUESS WHAT I'M GOING TO GO DOWNLOAD RIGHT AWAY.

I loved the episode, but one criticism I have is the expansion of Goku's plan. "According to cake" is a great gag, but the idea he had this brewing since before entering the time chamber (including letting Vegeta go first because he knew he'd screw up) felt a bit OOC. I can't think of any version of Goku that would think ahead like that, least of all DBZA Goku. I expect we'll see more on this in the next part, since that's where we'll get the payoff. For now, it's a bit of a headscratcher.

Also, I didn't mind it at all, but I'm sure there'll be some fans upset over Cell explicitly calling Piccolo Gohan's dad. They know what they're doing, but that whole area is controversial, I'm sure it'll spark some discussion.
Last edited by Kataphrut on Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by MozillaVulpix » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:15 am

Whoo boy, that sure was...something to talk about.

I do think the revised version of 16's speech and Cell's attitude towards Gohan are probably going to be new ideas brought up that, in all honesty, I haven't really heard people mention before. The idea that Gohan choosing to not fight comes from a place of cowardice instead of morals and timidness. I do wonder how it's going to be resolved. At least, I hope it gets resolved. Don't really want it to end on the note of saying Gohan's personality essentially makes him a coward who can't do anything right. If he is going to defeat Cell in the end, hope there's some kind of way for him to 'get over' the whole pacifism issue in a way that feels healthy.

Really, all the emphasis on Gohan's relative inaction makes the addition of Unmei no Hi (which talks about how he has to take action) feel like it means even more. As opposed to having SSJ2 coming out after snapping from a build-up of trauma, it does more feel like he understands he has to fight and that's what causes him to transform.

I actually wasn't sure how they were going to do a Cell/Gohan chemistry, given Cell/Goku had so much of it, but this idea works. Makes it feel more personal. And explains why Cell is the villain that Gohan gets to fight. Because he's one of the characters who knows what Gohan is like and actively despises him for it.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Ex-Dubbie369 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:19 am

So, I gotta start with the good: According to cake, naming the Cell Jrs (though I almost though he might make 8 for the reference), almost everything Cell says, Goku actually having a plan, UNMEI NO HI IN ENGLISH AND IT'S NOT CRINGEWORTHY!

But, I had a pretty huge issue: 16's speech. That was the most Boomer talking down to the youngins about how good they have it type of shit I've ever heard. And then to essentially say, "Hey, you're pacifist, or have other principles? Fuck you." Like, yeah, it's easy to argue against pacifism when the villains you fight are actually pure evil, but this frankly sounded like 16 was talking to the audience. Cell calling Gohan a coward, that's great. It's a barb that works and has truth to it, but 16 basically saying "Hey, this asshole here, he's totally right. You suck." Compared to the original, where 16 was encouraging and understanding, this time he just sounded like a pretentious asshole.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:44 am

Ex-Dubbie369 wrote:So, I gotta start with the good: According to cake, naming the Cell Jrs (though I almost though he might make 8 for the reference), almost everything Cell says, Goku actually having a plan, UNMEI NO HI IN ENGLISH AND IT'S NOT CRINGEWORTHY!

But, I had a pretty huge issue: 16's speech. That was the most Boomer talking down to the youngins about how good they have it type of shit I've ever heard. And then to essentially say, "Hey, you're pacifist, or have other principles? Fuck you." Like, yeah, it's easy to argue against pacifism when the villains you fight are actually pure evil, but this frankly sounded like 16 was talking to the audience. Cell calling Gohan a coward, that's great. It's a barb that works and has truth to it, but 16 basically saying "Hey, this asshole here, he's totally right. You suck." Compared to the original, where 16 was encouraging and understanding, this time he just sounded like a pretentious asshole.
16 calling Gohan a coward doesn't make any sense, but then neither did the original version of this scene.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by KaiserNeko » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:48 am

The journey we're taking Gohan on is a very personal one. It's intentionally a departure from the original, because our Gohan has developed differently.

It's not going to be spelled out, but you'll see in the second part what both Cell and Android 16 are getting at.

Also, I do believe pacifism in the face of immediate violence when you are the only one able to defend not only yourself, but others, is a failing. But if you disagree, you will of course take issue with Android 16's assessment.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by kemuri07 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:21 am

Just wanted to say: You guys did a far, far better job of deconstructing Goku than Toei ever could in Super. That entire moment in which he calmly explains how he gamed the entire situation, all so that Gohan could have the chance to fight Cell was absolutely chilling and served as a reminder of what could have been if Goku never received that bump on the head.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Jackal puFF » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:31 am

I truly missed seeing these abridged characters once again. This part one is so well done. Literally everything is perfect from music, shots, dialogue and emotional beats that hit. It also feels refreshing to watch this even though I've seen the Cell arc a billion times.

I love the throwback between Vegeta and Krillin. Android's 16 speech leading to that epic song and Gohan transforming. It's like watching it all for the 1st time again! Can't wait to see the rest! Good job Teamfourstar!

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by EnergizerConvoy » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:57 am

KaiserNeko wrote:The journey we're taking Gohan on is a very personal one. It's intentionally a departure from the original, because our Gohan has developed differently.

It's not going to be spelled out, but you'll see in the second part what both Cell and Android 16 are getting at.

Also, I do believe pacifism in the face of immediate violence when you are the only one able to defend not only yourself, but others, is a failing. But if you disagree, you will of course take issue with Android 16's assessment.
Quick question, is there an episode title for 60? Cause if it isn't, I would go something like "Expired Cell Service" or "The Celling" for that matter.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by jelleline89 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:55 am

Kataphrut wrote:I am itching for the full version of the song to come out now. It's weird to think that for many English fans, this would be their first exposure to it. A tragedy Toei didn't bring it back for Kai. Didn't even put it in the FighterZ music pack, philistines.

EDIT: Oh, the full version is already on iTunes. WELL GUESS WHAT I'M GOING TO GO DOWNLOAD RIGHT AWAY.
Link? I can't find it anywhere.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:58 am

jelleline89 wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:I am itching for the full version of the song to come out now. It's weird to think that for many English fans, this would be their first exposure to it. A tragedy Toei didn't bring it back for Kai. Didn't even put it in the FighterZ music pack, philistines.

EDIT: Oh, the full version is already on iTunes. WELL GUESS WHAT I'M GOING TO GO DOWNLOAD RIGHT AWAY.
Link? I can't find it anywhere.
Here ya go. They used the translated name: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/day-f ... 1434938640

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Doctor. » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:59 am

Mixed thoughts. On one hand, I loved that Gohan finally got his comeuppance after an entire decade of being an elitist prick. Every accusation laid out against him felt deserved and fair, and while obviously they wouldn't apply to the Gohan of the original series, I feel the arc Gohan is given here is more complete and coherent than what the original series hastily threw together at the last second before his big transformation.

On the other hand, I feel like it's worth noting what has become a trend ever since the mid-Freeza arc, and has only become more bothersome ever since, and that is the increasing over-reliance on meta humor and callbacks to previous episodes. Referencing the infamous keikaku fansub, many years after the fact, is just a lazy attempt at humor, much like referencing #17 and #18's real names back a few episodes wasn't used for anything more than getting fandom points. Likewise, the insistence on calling back to jokes made episodes ago doesn't really seem to serve much purpose especially considering how they feel out-of-place more often than not.

At some point you also have to consider whether or not it's even accurate to call this "Abridged." While Gohan's transformation was well acted and the cover for Spirit vs Spirit was well done, it was a 1:1 reproduction of the original version. I know it's a monumental scene that warrants respect, but this when combined with the slower pacing, larger length episodes and a visible effort to take the series more seriously, it starts feeling like an alternative to the dub rather than an abridged parody.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Fizzer » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:33 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again: TFS's Cell arc is better than the actual Cell arc. There's so much depth and psychology to it all intertwined with the humour. I think Piccolo going to fuse with Kami was the turning point from DBZ parody to DBZ But Better. Krillin's relationship with 18, Goku's with Gohan, Cell's with everyone he's composed of, and the world's relationship the shit that's going down have all been executed masterfully.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by coola » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:38 am

I was not expecting how well scenes that lead to Gohan transformation will be handled, and i agree with #16, especially taking into account what happens nowadays in real world, and that today is 1st September...if you have power and strength to save people and you don't do it, you are a coward and only thing you gain, is satisfaction from not getting covered your hand in blood. Sorry if i offended someone, it's how i feel.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by foxfang4 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:53 am

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I thought re-recording Unmei no Hi was genius. I got shivers in that scene. What great dialogue you guys write.
Also, MasakoX's performance was fantastic. I think easily the best of his career. He seemed almost menacing when Goku was giving his monologue to Piccolo (I loved how his voice dropped to accentuate his selfishness). And as Gohan, forget it. It was professional quality. Hats off :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:36 am

Doctor. wrote:Mixed thoughts. On one hand, I loved that Gohan finally got his comeuppance after an entire decade of being an elitist prick. Every accusation laid out against him felt deserved and fair, and while obviously they wouldn't apply to the Gohan of the original series, I feel the arc Gohan is given here is more complete and coherent than what the original series hastily threw together at the last second before his big transformation.

On the other hand, I feel like it's worth noting what has become a trend ever since the mid-Freeza arc, and has only become more bothersome ever since, and that is the increasing over-reliance on meta humor and callbacks to previous episodes. Referencing the infamous keikaku fansub, many years after the fact, is just a lazy attempt at humor, much like referencing #17 and #18's real names back a few episodes wasn't used for anything more than getting fandom points. Likewise, the insistence on calling back to jokes made episodes ago doesn't really seem to serve much purpose especially considering how they feel out-of-place more often than not.

At some point you also have to consider whether or not it's even accurate to call this "Abridged." While Gohan's transformation was well acted and the cover for Spirit vs Spirit was well done, it was a 1:1 reproduction of the original version. I know it's a monumental scene that warrants respect, but this when combined with the slower pacing, larger length episodes and a visible effort to take the series more seriously, it starts feeling like an alternative to the dub rather than an abridged parody.
I gotta agree with this, multiple times while watching I thought to myself how so much of it was played completely straight which is a double edged sword, a lot of the stuff being said works but I don't think it strikes a good balance.

Even south park manages to keep an undercurrent of farce present in episodes which are less humerous which helps those episodes feel less jarring. This ep almost felt like a fix fic with production values.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:18 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:I'll try my best to say this without sounding like an asshole, but...

Is this even supposed to be a humorous take on Dragon Ball anymore? It honestly feels like TFS are taking this too seriously. I barely laughed during that entire episode. I get that it might be hard to write comedy out of such a huge moment in the series, but if I want to watch this show with a serious tone, then I'll go and watch the actual show that it's based on. This isn't the first time it's happened during DBZA, it's been pretty prevalent throughout their take on the Android arc. But I seriously do miss when they would actually take the piss outta the show like during the Freeza arc, even during dramatic moments like when Goku turned Super Saiyan for the first time.

I really used to like DBZA, just look at my username for gods sake. :lol: But it just takes itself way too seriously now and I don't know why. That's not to say that it's always like that, there's still plenty to enjoy. But it's definitely not the same series that I eagerly anticipated every upcoming episode back in 2013/2014. Their movies and specials are still good, though. I remember really enjoying their take on Broly.

Still got lots of respect for the guys at TFS. They've come so far.
I mean, they DO still make light of a lot of moments that were originally serious. They've just left more moments serious than before. Considering some of these moments HAVE to be serious in any context to still be impactful in any way, it's good that they did. Like, I saw one person say that they were disappointed that they left Gohan's death serious int he Trunks special. They HAD to do that, or the depth & meaning of the original would've been lost. There's something to be said about a comedy, even a parody, that just goes for the quick & obvious jokes & a comedy that stops & lets you feel something else other than laughter. I mean, there's a reason people hate modern Family Guy as opposed to the earlier seasons, since there's absolutely no heart anymore & they only go for the cheap & obvious jokes, most of which are written terribly & aren't funny, or they use the characters in a terrible way & completely lose you in trying to make you laugh, which Season 12 was FILLED with, again, unless you're mentally deranged.
I mean, look at Dragon Ball Super. Before the English dub, which many people will confuse what I'm saying about the original Japanese version with. If you actually pay attention to the show, you notice that the tone is a bit off from Z. Part of this is because parts of the show are written as if it's a self parody. Goku is the main offender of this. As Totally Not Mark has pointed out, there's a certain finesse to writing Goku's character that these writers don't know about. Goku can easily flip flop to different extremes in his personality that were always there, but never to certain extents, like his overt stupidity & love of training being his personality until things get more serious, at which point he'll conveniently get smarter & more focused, getting back to his Z personality, then he'll suddenly switch back. It's especially noticeable with the English dub because Sean is more used to playing serious Goku & the more comedic dialogue doesn't work well with his Goku, not that he doesn't give it the good old college try, than it did in Kai, where the comedy was more with all of the characters than just with Goku. In fact, the majority of Goku's comedy in Z comes at the result of his hubris & nature of not thinking too far ahead than it does any overt stupidity, which is natural because Goku's a hick who didn't have a lot of formal education & doesn't have a ton of common sense outside of what he needs to put his goals forward. The overt comedy clashes with the more serious tone in Super at points, leaving a weird shifting tone most of the time. TFS does it in a more natural way that makes sense.
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