Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

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Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Witty User Name » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:37 pm

Okay, leaving aside the question of whether comic books are even literature to begin with, do you think it's somewhat contradictory for someone to read DB, and say, a work of more cultural relevance? Is it okay to read Dostoiévski and Toriyama at the ''same time'', or that's just insane? Does one exclude the other?

What do you think?

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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:49 pm

What do you take to be literature?
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Witty User Name » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:07 pm

ABED wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:49 pm
What do you take to be literature?
Mainly books, though as I already mentioned there is the ''controversy'' of whether stuff like manga or comics can be defined as ''literature''.

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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:35 pm

Witty User Name wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:37 pm
Okay, leaving aside the question of whether comic books are even literature to begin with, do you think it's somewhat contradictory for someone to read DB, and say, a work of more cultural relevance? Is it okay to read Dostoiévski and Toriyama at the ''same time'', or that's just insane? Does one exclude the other?
Why would one exclude the other? Even among "deep" classics there's a lot of diversity in style. The flowery and meditative prose of Herman Melville is held in the exact same high regard that John Steinbeck's more down to Earth and simple prose is. There are no hard and fast rules as to what equals quality and, generally speaking, people want different things from differen stories/mediums.

A good example is Cats the musical. The story is rubbish. Nonsensical bullshit which makes sense as it's based on a book of poems a guy wrote while coming off a 100 degree fever (I think. That may just be one of those literary stories everyone hears but can't verify). But people don't go to it to see a grand opera. They go because they want to see the amazing choreography, singing, and costumes. It's a celebration of what makes musical theater different from other forms of theater and an oppurtunity for talented actors to show off their diverse skillset. It's gaudy and set to stupid lyrics but that doesn't make it "worse" than a more political musical like Cabaret. It just means that Cats was going for something else.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Doctor. » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:44 pm

Nobody has to feel insecure about reading Dragon Ball or enjoying children's media as long as that's not the only thing they do. They're not mutually exclusive or else I'd have been kicked out from my master's course by this point because I'd rather read Dragon Ball than most of the authors I study.

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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:12 pm

Witty User Name wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:07 pm
ABED wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:49 pm
What do you take to be literature?
Mainly books, though as I already mentioned there is the ''controversy'' of whether stuff like manga or comics can be defined as ''literature''.
If your definition of literature is as broad as "books" then I would say that it's an unequivocal yes, comic books are literature.

There's nothing wrong with watching shows made for kids (or reading comic books), but hopefully that's not all you watch. I like to mix it up. I like to read classics and schlock, and here's the thing, lots of works that are considered classics in both film and literature are often terrible. I still find the experience valuable, though.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:21 pm

Witty User Name wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:07 pm
ABED wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:49 pm
What do you take to be literature?
Mainly books, though as I already mentioned there is the ''controversy'' of whether stuff like manga or comics can be defined as ''literature''.
*Resists urge to make a DDLC reference*
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:34 pm

When people think of Literature, they think of books that have no pictures in them and have you use your brain to imagine the story in your head. Comics/Manga are just a different medium of literature because they use art to tell a story. When people think of comics, they think of superhero stories, and they consider them to be junk food. Normal books have their fair share of junk food as well as 50 Shades of Grey, Harry Potter, etc.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:54 pm

Dragon Ball is literature. Is it particularly thoughtful literature made in the image of legendary classics from goofy white European men? Eh, I don't really care to put that much effort into things. When I feel passionate about a work I'll sing it's praises but the word 'literature' as I feel like it is being used here is to attribute a written work some sort of elite-status. I guess I just don't really care what the establishment thinks, I like to think for myself rather than parrot the words of demagogues.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:07 pm

"Literature" much like the word "art" seems to include a value judgment. Literature simply means "writing formed with letters". Literature can be good or bad, just like a piece of art can be good or bad.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:58 pm

Defining something as "literature" is one thing. Going around calling something "literature" is another. I can't imagine doing the latter with a manga or comic book.

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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:27 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:58 pm
Defining something as "literature" is one thing. Going around calling something "literature" is another. I can't imagine doing the latter with a manga or comic book.
It's literature. It's a book. Some books use words to express ideas. Some books use pictures to express ideas. Some books use words and pictures to express ideas!
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Zeon_Grunt » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:01 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:27 pm
MyVisionity wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:58 pm
Defining something as "literature" is one thing. Going around calling something "literature" is another. I can't imagine doing the latter with a manga or comic book.
It's literature. It's a book. Some books use words to express ideas. Some books use pictures to express ideas. Some books use words and pictures to express ideas!
By the definition of "it's a book," my PG Gundam Exia's building manual would count as "literature."

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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:22 am

I think calling DB literature and reading it alongside other famous works is perfectly acceptable. The idea of comics and manga not being literature probably comes from people who've never read them. These 2 have themes, stories, characters, etc. just as any other form of literature has.
Hellspawn28 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:34 pm
When people think of comics, they think of superhero stories, and they consider them to be junk food. Normal books have their fair share of junk food as well as 50 Shades of Grey, Harry Potter, etc.
I think it's unfair to call something junk food because it's more simple/different from everything else. You can argue quality, but when it comes to effort, I think most works are on the same level.
Last edited by Matches Malone on Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:25 am

Zeon_Grunt wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:01 am
By the definition of "it's a book," my PG Gundam Exia's building manual would count as "literature."
Do you read it? Does it express ideas? It's literature. 'Literature' the word doesn't need anybody sucking its cock.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:32 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:22 am

I think it's unfair to call something junk food because it's more simple/different from everything else. You can argue quality, but when it comes to effort, I think most works are on the same level.
I have dealt with people growing up that comics rot your brain and that they are not real literature. I think more people need to read stuff before bashing on them. I also agree that something being simple is not always a bad thing.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:36 am

won't get into the What Is Literature debate but of course it's okay and normal to read/watch something that's typical viewed as low brow entertainment or kids entertainment well also reading/watching that's viewed as high art or very mature. it just means that you like different things. that's fine.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:14 pm

I am going to take a visit to Project Gutenberg and read some books! Its about time I did!

BTW I have never read the manga.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Planetnamek » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:56 pm

I'll fully admit i've never really read any so-called classic literature because I find that old-fashioned style of writing quite tedious to get through(The oldest book I read was "The Jungle" and that was for a class assignment in high school). So definitely give me Manga over that any day of the week.
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Re: Dragon Ball and other types of Literature

Post by Zeon_Grunt » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:42 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:25 am
Zeon_Grunt wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:01 am
By the definition of "it's a book," my PG Gundam Exia's building manual would count as "literature."
Do you read it? Does it express ideas? It's literature. 'Literature' the word doesn't need anybody sucking its cock.
See, here's the problem, "literature" seems to have 2 meanings here. One is the academic definition that you'll find in most dictionaries and applied by any kind of academic authority ("written works, especially those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit."), and the one where people with no actual education into literature beyond reading Shakespeare in school to claim that any and all books (read: anything with a front and back cover) are "literature," often ignoring the qualifier that the work be exceptional in quality or merit.

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