Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

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Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:15 pm

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Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 38 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

This week is pretty much all-filler, so anyone watching along with Kai only gets one episode this week; and if you watch it, you'll be roughly two Z episodes ahead of the rest of us, and will only get two next week. Sorry! If it's any consolation, it'll be three almost every week after that until TFC.

Previous thread: Week 37 (DBZ 8-12)
Next thread: Week 39 (DBZ 18-22)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 166 - Hands Off! Enma-sama’s Secret Fruit (DBZ episode 13)
Dub title: Goz and Mez (Funimation)
Originally aired 26th of July 1989

Kai equivalent: None.
Edited dub equivalent: Episode 8 - Home For Infinite Losers
(1996-11-01)
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa


Goku awakens after falling to Block 1 of Hell while asleep. When he tries to eat some fruit from the Enseijū, not knowing it’s for Enma Daio’s personal use, he is scolded by the oni Gozu and Mezu. Goku and the pair then begin a contest, with the oni promising to return Goku to the Serpent Road if he wins! Goku wins at sumo wresting against Gozu, and in playing tag with Mezu. He is thus informed by Mezu of a backdoor to the Serpent Road, but it leads to Enma Daio’s drawer?! Goku is stuck running along the Serpent Road from the very beginning again…

Anime-only/filler content: All of it. Kept in the edited dub. (Written by Katsuyuki Sumisawa)

Episode 167 - Such Sweet Temptation! The Snake Princess’s Hospitality (DBZ episode 14)
Dub title: Princess Snake (Funimation)
Originally aired 2nd of August 1989

Kai equivalent: None. (Some footage incorporated into Kai episode 6)
Edited dub equivalent: Episode 9 - Princess Snake's Hospitality
(1996-11-08)
Episode director: Minoru Okazaki
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda


Kuririn, Yamucha, Tenshinhan, Chaozu, and Yajirobe gather at God’s temple, and begin their special training! Meanwhile, as Goku is running along the Serpent Road, he meets the Snake Princess and her attendants in a castle on the roadside. The Snake Princess falls in love with Goku at first sight, but realizing after entertaining him that even the use of sleeping pills won’t detain him, she reveals her true identity, Jadōshin, the spirit of Serpent Road!! The entire castle itself was actually Jadōshin, who has the form of a gigantic snake, but Goku tangles the snake up and escapes.

Anime-only/filler content: Entire episode. Kept in the edited dub. Some scenes were used in Kai. (Written by Hiroshi Toda)

Episode 168 - Escape from Piccolo! Gohan Summons a Storm (DBZ episode 15)
Dub title: Dueling Piccolos (Funimation)
Originally aired 9th of August 1989

Kai equivalent: None.
Edited dub equivalent: Episode 10 - Escape From Piccolo
(1997-10-28 or 1998-09-14; see trivia)
Episode director: Kazuhisa Takenouchi
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama


There’s eight months left until the Saiyan arrive on Earth! Piccolo refines himself by splitting apart to create a doppelganger, then fighting with it!! Meanwhile, as Gohan runs through the desert on a sand yacht that he made, he is chased by a giant eagle and reaches the shore. Gohan runs along the shore, climbs up the next mountain, and learns that his training ground is actually an island. And so, wholeheartedly wanting to see his mother, Gohan builds a raft and sets out on the sea, and at night he encounters a storm. The entire raft is swallowed up by a waterspout!!

Anime-only/filler content: All filler. Significantly shortened in the edited dub. (Written by Katsuyuki Sumisawa)

Episode 169 - Run, Gohan! Longing for Mt. Paozu, Where Chichi is Waiting (DBZ episode 16)
Dub title: Plight of the Children (Funimation)
Originally aired 16th of August 1989

Kai equivalent: None.
Edited dub equivalent: Episode 10 - Escape From Piccolo
(1997-10-28 or 1998-09-14; see trivia)
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Katsumi Aoshima


After washing up on shore, Gohan is saved by some children who lost their homes and parents in a tsunami two years ago. Living on the outskirts of town, the seven of them refuse to enter an orphanage, but the day after they befriend Gohan, orphanage employees come and they are captured by the police! Thinking of their future, the teenager Pigero doesn’t save them, and escapes with Gohan. Gohan returns to Mt. Paozu, but thinking of the orphans who endured even without their parents, he heads back without meeting Chichi.

Anime-only/filler content: Entirely filler. Kept but slightly shortened in the edited dub. (Written by Keiju Terui)

Episode 170 - City of No Tomorrow! The Long Road to Victory (DBZ episode 17)
Dub title: Pendulum Room Peril (Funimation)
Originally aired 30th of August 1989

Kai equivalent: Parts of this episode make up the first third of episode 6.
Edited dub equivalent: Episode 11 - Showdown In The Past
(1996-11-15)
Episode director: Osamu Kasai
Animation supervisor: Mitsuo Shindō


Now that Gohan has endured the half year trial, Piccolo begins their special training on the island. At that same time, Kuririn and the others at the temple are irritated at having not been given any training for two months, but Mister Popo sends the four of them without Yajirobe on a trip to the past in their minds. In a Saiyan city in ruins, Tenshinhan and the others are attacked by two warriors! After the four struggle in vain and are completely defeated, they hear from God that their opponents were only half-strong Saiyans, and their fighting resolve is renewed!!

Anime-only/filler content: Everything involving Kuririn and the others travelling in time and fighting two Saiyans. Kept in the edited dub. I think Kai uses a few of the training scenes, from before the gang travel in time. (Written by Keiji Terui)

-

Interesting trivia:
  • During this time, the manga had Yajirobe save Goku by cutting Vegeta's tail, Gohan and Kuririn arrive to help Goku, Goku gives the Genki-Dama energy to Kuririn and hits Vegeta with the help of Gohan, and Vegeta keeps fighting before noticing that Gohan's tail has grown back.
  • Episode 13 is of course the episode that, in the original Ocean Cast dub, infamously censored the "HELL" singlets to say "HFIL", explained as an acronym for "Home For Infinite Losers" (more on that in a moment). Either way, this particular depiction of hell is different from its later depictions in the Other World Tournament and Buu Arc filler scenes, being a sunny, grassy place rather than a dark rocky wasteland with a huge orb TV.
  • As mentioned last week, Toriyama is the one who devised the ideas on what the Dragon Team got up to in this period of time, including Lunch chasing Tenshinhan, Goku encountering the living stone snake, and Piccolo fighting a copy of himself.
  • Toriyama also designed the adult Oopa, now eleven years older. We last saw him at the conclusion of the Red Ribbon Arc, although he was not depicted the last time Karin's Tower was depicted, in the Daimao Arc.
  • The Snake Princess is the first in a line of blue-skinned orange-haired characters exclusive to the anime, including Super Android 13, and Bojack and his henchmen.
  • Edits in the original dub:
    • Various scenes from uncut episode 12 were put into edited episode 8, many to replace scenes of Lunch. As a result, Tenshinhan doesn't appear in the edited dub until he present at the lookout with Kuririn and Yamucha. His history and relationship with the Dragon Team is never explained in the edited dub.
    • Instances of "HELL" in edited episode 8, particularly on Goz's and Mez's T-shirts, are replaced with "HFIL", standing for "Home For Infinite Losers", involving some pretty extensive digital paint work. This change would persist into many of the video games, and the rest of the edited Z dub. Ocean's own edited dubs initially followed suit with this, for their Z dub, but in DB and GT, they switched to instead calling hell "Hades", much closer to the original meaning. Allegedly, Ocean's dub of Kai has them actually use the word "Hell."
      • Some people still complain that they think this change was unnecessary and crazy, but the reality is that DBZ was under some very strict broadcast standards; as Barry Watson explained in a 1997/1998 interview (video is almost certainly mislabelled when it says 1996, as they discuss the show moving to Cartoon Network, and there's footage from the Namek saga), DBZ aired on Saturday mornings, rather than in primetime on evenings, so parents may not be as able to supervise their kids' viewing, so the restrictions were a lot harsher on DBZ than many other shows that would be subject to parents' judgement.
    • In edited episode 9, all shots of Goku nudity were cut out. The scenes are basically all left in, but the actual nudity itself is cut around.
    • One of the snake girls playing Russian Roulette was cut.
    • A scene of Piccolo training with himself was moved to the end of the prior episode. Additionally, the scene of Piccolo causing the tornado, which should have happened in edited episode 9, was moved all the way back to edited episode 7. This is one of the last times we'd get any of this weird rearranging of scenes between episodes in the edited dub. I think a lot of it was done mainly for time, and to accomodate the other time edits they were making; they really wanted to turn the 35-episode Saiyan arc into a neat, 26-episode TV season.
    • Episode 10, Escape From Piccolo, was made by cutting uncut episode 15 down into its first third, and then using a slightly-cut-down version of uncut episode 16 for the remainder. Extensive notes on this episode aren't available, however, as it wasn't broadcast during the original run of DBZ; the common belief is that the orphans disrespecting the authority figures in the episode was seen as not being okay to show (see my above note about DBZ airing on Saturday mornings), so even though this episode was fully produced, it was never aired in syndication. It had a home video premiere in October 1997, however, and it eventually aired on Toonami in September 1998.
      • It's my theory that this episode's "Lost episode" status is why the copy of the episode immediately prior to it on the "Rock The Dragon" DVD set uses the wrong next-episode preview; Rock The Dragon used the first-run broadcast masters, so it's likely the preview at the end of edited episode 9 was changed out so as to not confuse viewers by showing them a preview for an episode that would never air.
    • In edited episode 11, every shot of one of the Saiyans holding Chaozu by the head was cut.
    • Tenshinhan spitting up blood when one of the Saiyans punches him was painted over to remove the blood.
    • Tenshinhan and Yamucha's deaths were cut a little, to remove the blasts actually hitting them, and the gore that ensues.
  • Yamucha's technique that would later become known as the "Spirit Ball" in dubbed media was called the "Spirit Bomb" in the original edited dub. Funimation's uncut redub didn't fix this.
  • As a result of Lunch's scenes in episode 13 being removed in the edited equivalent (epsode 8.), there are no women in edited episode 8.
  • Redraws in Kai episode 6:
  • Episode 15 reveals that Gohan's training ground is actually on an island. This detail is exclusive to the anime, and you could try to poke a plot hole here because the geography depicted here doesn't jibe too well with later events; for example the news team who covers the fight with Nappa (again an anime-only event) arrives to the battlefield by land vehicles. Daizenshuu 7's map ignores this as well, depicting the training grounds as East of Frypan Mountain, the Rabbit Gang Town and South-East of Pilaf's castle... However, after Gohan escapes the island, there's no particular indication of where Gohan and Piccolo go to do the second leg of their training other than it looking a little similar to where they previously were, so it's entirely possible they went somewhere else.
  • Interestingly, Daizenshuu 7 explains that Gohan's training area is placed almost halfway around the world from Mount Paozu. If Piccolo and Gohan had taken their time getting there, they would have retraced Goku's journey with Bulma from the Pilaf arc.
    • The Daizenshuu 7 map is also replicated as the world map for Earth in Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot.
  • Chiko, the girl who finds Gohan on the beach, has a very similar design to Chu Lee from Dragon Ball Episode 127 (in which Goku attempts to move faster than lightning), only with black hair. Revenge of the same-aged girls!
  • Episode 16 is the first episode to not have Goku make any sort of an appearance.
  • Episode 17 is the final time Vegeta and Nappa are depicted with incorrect colours: in his next appearance in Episode 20, they'll have the correct colours at last.
Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and Dragon Ball logo provided, and trivia co-written, by KBABZ. Additional trivia courtesy of Chris Psaros's DBZ Uncensored guide.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:36 pm

Although lightweight the Goku in hell episode is pretty fun. It was a nice return to his original trickster archetype that we honestly haven’t seen since Red Ribbon?

Fun fact Gozu and Mezu are actual figures from Buddhism depicted as the guardians of hell although they’re usually depicted with an Ox-Head and Horse-Head, respectively http://yokai.com/gozu/


And of course it was just bizarre for the uncut PG rated Funi dub to avoid all direct mentions of hell. Instead the viewer just has to figure out for themselves that Goku is in hell.

The Princess Snake episode is another one that’s low on action and high on comedy. It’s kind of interesting to depict Goku actually caring about Chi chi and Gohan with them being in his dreams. As much as we gave Funimation shitfor going off script and making shit up Toei can be just as guilty of those things (making Goku more heroic, making his marriage to Chi Chi more sincere, blatantly making facts up that will later be contradicted by the main story)

The Gohan and the orphan two-parters is okay. I think Funimation was right to initially merge it into a single episode.

The Pendulum Room episode does little other than establish the Z Warriors are way out of their league.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Planetnamek » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:28 pm

The Princess Snake episode was entertaining in it's weirdness. I can kind of see why syndication had issues with the Orphan episode, but it's interesting to see Gohan interact with other kids for a change.

I think HFIL is actually pretty amusing.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:47 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:28 pm

I think HFIL is actually pretty amusing.
It was one of the most confusing aspects of the edited dub to be honest. I was confused as hell as a kid why Freeza and Cell were in a place called Home for Infinite Losers in the Otherworld Tournament arc. They should have trashed the whole episode or wiped the Ogres short completely clean and just refer to it as the land down below or Hades.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:38 pm

Notes on ep 16/Orphan episode as even though it's not my favorite filler material it has some noteworthy things.

-This was Takeshi Kusao's first known role in the anime, albeit a minor one as Pigero before then going on to his big proper one as Future Trunks a couple years later and subsequently kid/present timeline Trunks.

-The scene where Pigero punches Gohan out of the car after the latter asks why he had left the others behind to be taken by the social people after reaching Mount Paozu is very telling. I interpret it partly as him being somewhat envious (or perhaps even jealous to some extent) that Gohan still has parents and a home, things which himself and the other orphans don't have and also upset at himself over the fact that there was nothing more he could do to help them even though he'd tried to the best of his ability. Quite a subtle but moving bit of emotional writing there.

-Of course the end scene following this is great, because although Gohan was just a stone's throw away from being home again once Piccolo appears he again realizes that his training for the coming battle is of greater significance than running. The exchange of "What is your mission" and "To defeat the Saiyans" at the closing scene is such a a great moment.
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2.) Collect rest of manga

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:24 pm

While I do like the Snake Princess episode for the nice break from all the drama for some nice light comedy, I like the Hell episodes more.

Since like the Gohan training episodes, it builds off of something that was merely teased at in the manga. If I remember right, in the manga Goku is told that falling off the road would mean going right to Hell, but it's only brought up just to never amount to anything. Also like the Gohan filler it's well integrated, so it doesn't "Feel" like filler. As in you dont feel like the story is just taking a break and meandering about for no reason.

First time Dragon Ball fan as of March 2020. Still learning the ropes. Nothing much else to say,
  • Preferred viewing order = DB ---> Kai ---> Super + Relevant movies (DB subbed, all others dubbed)
  • Favorite Arcs = Red Ribbon Army, Saiyan Arc, Frieza Arc, 23rd Budoukai, Piccolo Daimao
  • Favorite Characters Besides Goku/Vegeta = General Blue, Pilaf Gang, Crane Hermit, Bulma, Yamcha, Krillin, Frieza, Ginyu Force, Tournament Announcer, Lunch, Broly, and Piccolo

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by ABED » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:33 pm

I love the atmosphere of the Pendulum Room. The depiction of Planet Vegeta as war-torn makes WAY more sense than a technologically advanced culture.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:48 pm

The whole encounter with Gozu and Mezu in Hell comes from Journey to the West. It was also previously referenced in episode 81 of DB, Goku Goes to Demon Realm.

These filler appearances by Lunch don't really do the character any favors. I think Toei clearly didn't know what to do with her without Toriyama. She's almost like a caricature of herself, having regressed to her pre-22nd Budoukai days. She's even wearing her original outfit from her introduction during the Roshi training arc.

The Snake Princess episode is definitely one of my favorites. The concept itself is interesting and I like the design of everything. Good use of humor as well.

Gohan and the orphans is another good one. Having Gohan interact with other children is a nice idea. Nice little story. I always remember how Pigero slugs Gohan at the end. I like that this show doesn't hold back with kids and teaches them some tough lessons.

"City of No Tomorrow! The Long Road to Victory" is a cool title. I like how this episode has a horror vibe to it. God and Mister Popo are once again depicted as being creepy figures with dark secrets. I think this vibe works well for them. I agree that a war-torn homeworld for the Saiyans works much better and is effective in its haunting atmosphere.

Overall, the Saiyan Saga filler works really well. It's a shame Toei drops the ball after this arc.

Episode 18 is next week, not this week KBABZ.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 38 - DBZ episode 13-17 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:01 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:48 pm
Episode 18 is next week, not this week KBABZ.
lol. I should have caught that.

For anyone reading this after this: I've edited the OP, but originally it had some extra trivia relating to episode 18. We'll probably use most of that next week, so I won't repost it here, but I don't think we'll see this one next week:
  • Goku making it to the end of Snake Way is the only event in this week's episodes that's actually from the manga.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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