Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79

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Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:45 pm

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Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 54 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

Well, the movie last week sucked, but now we're back to the good stuff. :)
The next movie (which also sucks) won't be until the Freeza saga has concluded, so it's going to be smooth sailing for a few weeks.

Previous thread: Week 53 (DBZ movie 4)
Next thread: Week 55 (DBZ 80-84)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 228 - Thou Who Hast Gathered the Seven Balls… Now Speak Forth the Password! (DBZ episode 75)
Dub title: Password is Porunga (Funimation)
Originally aired 23rd of January 1991

Kai equivalent: Episode 35 - A Great Turnabout for Goku?! Super Shenlong, Come Out Right Now! (Last third) and Episode 36 - An Enraged Freeza Draws Near! Porunga… Grant This Wish! (First third)
Written by: Katsuyuki Sumisawa
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa


After the battle with Ginyu, Goku is healed inside a medical machine. Kuririn heads to see the Eldest in order to ask for the password to summon Shenlong. Meanwhile, Freeza tries to get the password out of Nail. But Nail says that he was simply buying time for Dende to go tell the password to the others, and laughs fearlessly. At that time, Gohan and the others call forth Shenlong. It turns out that the password was simply that you had to speak in Namekian. There are three wishes that will be granted, but…

Anime-only/filler content: Gohan testing out his armour with various manoeuvres, Dende mistaking Butta's corpse for Kuririn's, the Ginyu frog attempting to steal a Dragon Ball.

Episode 229 - God Also Returns to Life! Piccolo is Resurrected by Super Shen Long (DBZ episode 76)
Dub title: Piccolo's Return (Funimation)
Originally aired 30th of January 1991

Kai equivalent: Episode 36 - An Enraged Freeza Draws Near! Porunga… Grant This Wish! (Middle third)
Written by: Katsuyuki Sumisawa
Episode director: Tatsuya Orime
Animation supervisor: Masahiro Shimanuki


Super Shen Long can grant three wishes, but can only restore people to life one at a time. As Gohan and the others are confused as to what they should do, Piccolo calls out to them. If they revive Piccolo, then God and the Earth’s Dragon Balls will also be revived. Then with the next wish, Piccolo is warped to Planet Namek. At that moment Vegeta appeared. The only way to win against Freeza is to make Vegeta immortal… However the Dragon Balls then become stone! The Eldest has passed away. What’s more, Freeza appears before Gohan and the others.

Anime-only/filler content: Ten and Chaozu arguing about who gets revived first.

Episode 230 - Birth of the Mightiest Warrior?! Nail and Piccolo Merge (DBZ episode 77)
Dub title: The Fusion (Funimation)
Originally aired 6th of February 1991

Kai equivalent: Episode 36 - An Enraged Freeza Draws Near! Porunga… Grant This Wish! (Last third) and Episode 37 - A Nightmarish Super Transformation! Freeza’s Battle Power Reaches One Million (First half)
Written by: Katsuyuki Sumisawa
Episode director: Minoru Okazaki
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda


Unable to have his own wish granted, Freeza goes wild with rage. His ki is so tremendously powerful that none of the enemies up until now can compare with it. As he hurries to the battlefield, Piccolo discovers Nail. On the verge of death, Nail proposes that they merge in order to defeat Freeza. Piccolo merges with Nail and obtains ultimate power. Meanwhile, Vegeta presses Freeza to transform, thinking that he can somehow win if he fights together with Gohan and Kuririn. Freeza commences his first transformation.

Anime-only/filler content: The sequence of Freeza lifting a chunk of rock, firing at Vegeta through the dust, and then Vegeta punching one of his shots away from Kuririn, Gohan and Dende.

Episode 231 - A Nightmare Super Transformation!! Freeza’s Battle Power Reaches One Million (DBZ episode 78)
Dub title: Fighting Power: One Million?? (Funimation)
Originally aired 13th of February 1991

Kai equivalent: Episode 37 - A Nightmarish Super Transformation! Freeza’s Battle Power Reaches One Million (Last half)
Written by: Katsuyuki Sumisawa
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Mitsuo Shindō


Freeza’s power swells up, breaking the battle jacket he was wearing to pieces. Vegeta laughs, asking if Freeza has merely gotten more agile by taking off his clothes, but the transformation is not yet finished. He talks about Vegeta’s father, King Vegeta, who couldn’t even defeat the un-transformed Freeza. Freeza’s transformation is complete. His entire body has become gigantic, and his ki is many times what it was before. Freeza charges at super speed and impales Kuririn in the stomach with his horn.

Anime-only/filler content: The King Vegeta flashback, Bulma being chased by dinosaurs, Freeza breaking rocks and changing the length of his tail after his transformation.

Episode 232 - Is This the End?! A Brutally Transcendent Power Attacks Gohan (DBZ episode 79)
Dub title: Gohan Attacks (Funimation)
Originally aired 20th of February 1991

Kai equivalent: Episode 38 - A Nightmarish Super Transformation! Freeza’s Battle Power Reaches One Million (First half)
Written by: Aya Matsui
Episode director: Tatsuya Orime
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama


Freeza flings the impaled Kuririn away. Gohan goes to save him, but Freeza interrupts his rescue attempt. An angry Gohan launches a terrific kick at Freeza. Punching him repeatedly, he attacks with a full-power energy bullet. A giant explosion occurs, and Freeza is buried in the rubble. However, he is completely undamaged. Raising his battle power, Freeza counterattacks Gohan. Gohan’s life is a candle in the wind…

Anime-only/filler content: Significant extensions to the scene of Freeza skewering Kuririn, and then the gang on Kaio's planet asking to see what's happening and Bulma's scene are entirely filler.

-

Interesting trivia:
  • At this point in time in the manga, Goku begins his fight with Freeza, discovering he can't sense ki and fighting with telekinetic rocks, fights Freeza as he doesn't use his hands, then fights Freeza at 50% of his strength using a Kaio-Ken x20.
  • The aftermath of the Ginyu fight is considered the official end of the Namek arc and the beginning of the "Freeza" arc, due to the notorious length of the battle. This will be the longest single battle in the franchise: it takes up three entire Tankōbon volumes, making it longer than the Daimao arc and as long as any of the Tournaments or the upcoming Android Arc (the time between Mecha Freeza and Cell's arrival).
  • In the ViZ version of the gearing up scene, Vegeta mentions that there are some smaller battle jackets for Gohan and Kuririn that were made for the people of planet Liliput. This is a reference to Gulliver's Travels: Liliput is a location in the famous story where Gulliver finds a civilization of miniature people. In the manga and Japanese anime they're called Littians, while the Kai dub doesn't mention them at all.
  • The battle jacket's property of being solid when hit but flexible to pull apart means it technically qualifies as a non-newtonian object, meaning it doesn't strictly adhere to being a solid, liquid or gas. It also handily excuses Toriyama and Toei's animators for bending the armor in order to hit desired poses!
    • For a real-world example of this, you'll find things as innocuous as sand, water, or custard exhibit similar properties
  • Nail deciding to tell Freeza that he's actually stalling him considerably alters the course of the story: Freeza would not have arrived when he did, giving Goku more time to heal and possibly allow him to enter the fight before Freeza killed Vegeta. However Nail would almost certainly have died, meaning Piccolo would not be able to absorb him to help keep Freeza busy long enough for Goku to arrive in time.
  • Freeza doesn't use his hoverchair to return to his ship. This is because he left it at the Grand Elder's but it's also likely because he can fly there faster on his own.
  • In the ViZ translation, Dende mentions that the Grand Elder told him that Kuririn and Gohan are in the Shell Region. Yep, that's another snail pun!
  • In the wide shots around Freeza's ship in Chapter 292, you can see the craters where the Ginyu Force's pods originally landed. They'll be seen again when Goku flies to Freeza's ship to try and escape Namek; they will of course be how he escapes.
  • Summoning Porunga has one other difference: the sky literally goes black, rather than a spread of black clouds achieving the same effect.
  • Across both English and Japanese, the words Dende uses to summon Porunga are identical... except in the Funimation dub of the anime, where it's "Takarabusko", not "Takkaraputo".
    • And no, the words have no real meaning, as far as we're aware.
  • Kuririn and Gohan acting surprised when Porunga mentions that he can grant three wishes is a plothole: Nail had already told them this at the Grand Elder's as the Ginyu Force were arriving.
  • On the second page of Chapter 293, Kaio is accidentally drawn with no antennae and a baulble on his hat, making him look like Chiaotzu. In the Full Color manga, it's even coloured in the same shade of red!
  • While talking to Gohan in the ViZ translation, Piccolo says that he's in the Underworld; this is inaccurate because that would technically be Hell. However by the time this translation was made, Toriyama had already drawn a sketch of the Dragon World "macrocosm" for the Other World Tournament arc in 1993, which depicted Other World as being under the world of the living, making the term technically true from a navigational standpoint.
  • Changes in the TV edit of the original dub:
    • In Episode 75, some blood dripping from Nail was painted out, though the blood covering his face and legs are not edited. (Similarly, the scene of Dende discovering Ghurd and Butta's corpses was left uncut)
    • Episode 76, which Chris Psaros refers to as "the single worst episode EVER of the dub" in his guide, had no cuts or paint edits in its initial airing, however UK airings muted Dende swearing in the line "Don't piss off the dragon god of love", later US airings allegedly cut the line, and the Canadian airings that were edited by Ocean used an alternate line that Funimation mistakenly didn't use in their TV edited version. Chris Psaros also makes a point of noting that the dialogue in this episode is very, very poor, and bears almost no relation to the Japanese dialogue in most cases, usually seemingly deliberately changed for the sake of adding jokes (for instance, Porunga has an added line to the tune of "How about you guys just wish for nothing three times so I can go away?", followed by Kuririn making a joke, Kaio and Piccolo exchanging some gag lines, and this all following on from Yamucha and Tenshinhan having a debate about Yamucha's hair).
    • Episode 77 has no significant cuts or edits.
    • Episode 78 has some cuts at the end, to trim down Kuririn being skewered on Freeza's horn...
    • Episode 79 was drastically cut down, losing nearly ten minutes in total, due to the violence, primarily from Kuririn being skewered. For this reason, the minute and a half of footage from the first seven minutes of episode 79 that was kept in the TV edit was put into the preceding TV edited episode, meanwhile the rest of the episode (sans just under 2 minutes of cuts to Freeza brutally fighting Gohan) is incorporated into the next episode. This means there's almost a "Lost episode" of the original dub. It is present on the uncut home video version, as an unnumbered additional episode. More on that below.
  • I'm unsure if this is still present on the modern "Remastered" DVDs, but it's worth noting that Funimation adding sound effects to DBZ didn't end with the Saban dub; Chris Psaros made particular note of the fact that episode 76 features the debut of a weird morse code/radio sound effect that plays whenever Kaio uses his telepathy in season 3. Interestingly, I've seen (that is, Robo has seen) many claim that altered SFX was strictly an Ocean thing. Yet another misconception borne of the lack of availability of the pre-Orange Brick version of Funimation's dubs.
  • It's also worth pointing out that Psaros kind of hits the nail on the head in his entry on Episode 77, where he comes to the realisation that the majority of the Funimation season 3 cast is about three or four actors, one of whom is also the voice director.
  • As noted in the censorship breakdown, the numbering of episodes becomes weird here for the final time. Edited episode 64, which should line up exactly with uncut episode 78, incorporated about a minute of footage from episode 79. Edited episode 65 is then made up of Japanese episodes 79 and 80. How this is reconciled with the uncut home video is that they have an extra, unnumbered episode. Except this is handled very weirdly in terms of episode titles; on TV, you had Episode 64: "Fighting Power: One Million??", Episode 65: "Gohan Attacks", and Episode 66: "Deja Vu". On home video, you had Episode 64: "Fighting Power: One Million??", Episode --: "Gohan Attacks", Episode 65: "Piccolo the Super Namek", and Episode 66: "Deja Vu". Therefore, Funimation's Episode 65 may be listed as one of two different titles.
  • Piccolo wanting to fight Freeza to his people after they were slaughtered by him is very similar for Goku's reasonings at the start of his fight with Freeza.
  • In the anime, Kaio protests to Piccolo's idea of going to Namek to fight Freeza. In the manga, this scene doesn't happen.
  • Porunga is indeed a giant lizard.
  • Vegeta's dialogue after waking up suggests that he had figured out Namek's multiple suns on his own at some point. Kuririn only realizes this in the anime when Dende pointed it out to him on the way to the Grand Elder's (in the manga, this detail is delivered by the narrator).
  • As noted by some fans, Porunga is more easy-going and patient than Shen Long. He says "an easy one for a change" after being asked to warp Piccolo to Namek, and later on he gives Kuririn a body when restoring him, and blushes when Bulma compliments him. Shen Long meanwhile gets angry if you waste his time and don't wish quickly!
  • As Freeza approaches Porunga, he notes "No!! They've called the dragon...!!". This is a plothole: when he first gathered the Dragon Balls he had no idea a dragon was involved, and he didn't learn this from Nail or the Grand Elder either.
  • In the Saiyan Arc, Piccolo's body, along with Yamucha and Tenshinhan's, was loaded into a cryo-pod to preserve their bodies for resurrection, similar to in the Daimao Arc. However when Piccolo is restored back to life, he doesn't appear back in his body, instead his halo simply disappears. This discrepancy appears again at the end of the Namek Arc when Yamucha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu are wished back as well.
    • A possible explaination is that all of them retained their bodies in Other World, rather than appearing as cloud-like spirits as we see in the Boo Arc.
  • Possibly due to the tense situation and lack of time, it doesn't occur to Kuririn or Gohan that they could wish for Goku to be healed rather than wish for Vegeta's immortality.
  • In the manga, Porunga dies just before Dende tries to make the final wish. In the anime, and Kai, Dende has a chance to say his wish before Porunga dies, introducing the interesting scenario later when Porunga is brought back to life and acts as if he never heard it in the first place.
  • Nail mentions that Piccolo might be able to take on Freeza if he were merged with God, an idea not explored until the Android Arc. It also says a lot about Piccolo's stubborness that he doesn't consider this route until AFTER he's trounced by the Androids, who he knows are more powerful than Freeza!
  • In a redrawn shot after Piccolo absorbs Nail, Piccolo's nails are coloured green, and then white in the next shot, rather than black.
  • As has been noted by fans across the years, calling Freeza's forms "First/Second/Third/Final Form" is actually a bit of a misnomer: as revealed early in his fight, this is actually a form of self-restraint so that Freeza doesn't lose control. Therefore, what is typically called his "Final Form" is actually his Original Form, with the others being more Third, Second and First Regression forms.
  • In Chapter 296, on the first page Kuririn's armor is incorrectly left uninked, making it appear white like Vegeta's. This is corrected in the Full Colors to a dark grey.
  • In Chapter 296, Freeza mentions that he was only in his first form when he destroyed Planet Vegeta and killed the King with ease. In the anime, this scene is actually shown after Freeza mentions it; presumably, it takes place sometime before Freeza sends Dodoria away to kill Bardock's squad since Freeza destroys Planet Vegeta a few minutes after he returns. The scene is the first time King Vegeta is depicted since he didn't appear in the Bardock Special. Coincidentally, the Chapter where Freeza mentions killing him was issued the day before the Bardock Special aired!
  • While there has been much debate over whether Freeza's power level of 1 million applies to him at 100% power or just his second form, in the manga, Z, and Kai in Japan the wording makes it clear that it applies specifically to his second form.
  • Freeza blowing up the island will introduce a continuity error later: when God and Kaio pull off their gambit to restore the Grand Elder and Porunga, the island he was on is restored. The Dragon Balls, which are shown flying away when Freeza blows the island up, are also returned together on the island so Porunga can appear again.
  • Gohan's rage to get Freeza out of the way so that he can rescue Kuririn is arguably the first time he's shown his enraged hidden strength since fighting Nappa.
Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and Dragon Ball logo provided, as well as filler breakdown for episode 77 and trivia co-written, by KBABZ. Additional trivia courtesy of Chris Psaros's DBZ Uncensored guide.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:51 pm

Hey everyone! Split off from this week's Trivia is, just like last week, a collation of ALL the trivia I missed! This is once again unedited by Robo, The Way It Was Meant To Be Read, so prepare for my Funimation name BS and Trivia that's even MORE granular than it usually is!


Episode 57-74 Trivia



And finally...

Peace for the future! (of Trivia!)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:06 pm

Impressive that Z got some mileage out of Chorus of Doom from Sleeping Princess. Piccolo’s death, Kuririn getting skewered and Vegeta’s death. I can’t remember if it was ever actually used in OG Dragon Ball. (When Goku went to the demon’s realm maybe?)

Does Porunga look like a mutated frog thing to anyone else?

Gohan posing in his Saiyan outfit seems almost foreshadowing Great Saiyaman by accident.


Chris Sabat’s Piccolo is so so so fucking bad in season 3 (and really until like Boo maybe?) Imagine going from Scott Mcneil to ....whatever the hell that is. Or even Chris Sabat’s Piccolo in the UUE episodes to...that.

Also Sabat’s Yamcha...not sure why he went with a surfer boy voice as its not at all what Ted Cole was doing? Ironically, Sabat’s Yamcha got much much better when he started emulating Cole’s performance around the time of the original Dragon Ball.


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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Xeogran » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:42 pm

Man, imagine if Goku used Telepathy on Future Trunks when he first came to Earth. He would know how A17 and A18 look like and their fighting style and how much devastation they caused..

The Android arc would be so different then because they wouldn't get tricked by Dr. Gero and A19

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:48 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:06 pm
Impressive that Z got some mileage out of Chorus of Doom from Sleeping Princess. Piccolo’s death, Kuririn getting skewered and Vegeta’s death. I can’t remember if it was ever actually used in OG Dragon Ball. (When Goku went to the demon’s realm maybe?)
It was used when he was in the demon realm, as well as in instrumental form when Chapa-o showed up in the 22nd Tenkaichi, and when Tenshinhan flew up into the air to use his Kikoho.
It shows up a few more times in Z, the final time being when Vegeta was killed by Freeza.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:06 pm
Does Porunga look like a mutated frog thing to anyone else?
lol. Kinda does.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:06 pm
Chris Sabat’s Piccolo is so so so fucking bad in season 3 (and really until like Boo maybe?) Imagine going from Scott Mcneil to ....whatever the hell that is. Or even Chris Sabat’s Piccolo in the UUE episodes to...that.
Yeah.

Big respect for Chris Sabat as he is now, but he really wasn't kidding in his Geekdom interview when he said that dropping the Vancouver cast was purely a business decision... If artistic integrity entered into it in even the most vague sense, then it would have never happened.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:06 pm
Also Sabat’s Yamcha...not sure why he went with a surfer boy voice as its not at all what Ted Cole was doing? Ironically, Sabat’s Yamcha got much much better when he started emulating Cole’s performance around the time of the original Dragon Ball.
lol. Agreed. Though honestly, I always thought Sabat was a weird choice for Yamucha. Like basically all of his roles at this stage, he wasn't chosen because he was the best man for the job, he was chosen because he was cheap. Good on him for trying to make the best of it, but Yamucha is one of the many reasons I think Funimation should have run re-auditions when doing Kai; what made sense in 1999 from a casting perspective doesn't necessarily make sense today anymore, and I feel like a better fit could be found in Funimation's talent pool these days.

No disrespect to Sabat, I don't think he's ever phoned in a day in his life, but I wish the casting directors had been more willing to change things up in Kai to better utilise their available actors.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:40 pm

Switching back and forth from Kai to Z for reference is kind of like an eye opener. Especially once you learn about some of the behinds the scenes troubles going on with the anime at the time. I feel like this is about the point where the pacing of things starts to take a turn for the worse, since by now the anime was getting dangerously close to where the manga was.

It's not unbearable, but you can tell something is going on. With each successive episode seemingly covering less and less material in 22 minutes. Though luckily we are not at the absolute worst point yet. That comes for the grand Goku v. Frieza fight, that there is the true pinnacle of boring, drawn out, repetitive, padded episodes. :lol:
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:53 pm

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:40 pm
Switching back and forth from Kai to Z for reference is kind of like an eye opener. Especially once you learn about some of the behinds the scenes troubles going on with the anime at the time. I feel like this is about the point where the pacing of things starts to take a turn for the worse, since by now the anime was getting dangerously close to where the manga was.

It's not unbearable, but you can tell something is going on. With each successive episode seemingly covering less and less material in 22 minutes. Though luckily we are not at the absolute worst point yet. That comes for the grand Goku v. Frieza fight, that there is the true pinnacle of boring, drawn out, repetitive, padded episodes. :lol:
Yeah.

This is one of many reasons why it amazes me that so many people still skip to Z... The pacing in literally the second story arc of Z takes such a massive dive in pacing... I'd argue pretty much the entire stretch from Goku and Ginyu switching bodies until Namek explodes, is nigh unbearable in Z.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:14 am

I haven't had any problems with the pacing of this arc so far. I think maybe once it hits Goku/Freeza that might change.

I prefer Sabat's original Vegeta voice to the remastered stuff, especially in these episodes. He gets some memorable dialogue in them.

I never understood the big deal with the "piss off" scene back in the day. I guess maybe because I didn't think of "piss" as a swear word. It may have been too much for children's television I suppose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqhO-ciBO0Y

While talking to Gohan in the ViZ translation, Piccolo says that he's in the Underworld; this is inaccurate because that would technically be Hell.
The term "underworld" is often used to refer to the realm of the dead in general, not just the Judeo-Christian concept of Hell.

As has been noted by fans across the years, calling Freeza's forms "First/Second/Third/Final Form" is actually a bit of a misnomer: as revealed early in his fight, this is actually a form of self-restraint so that Freeza doesn't lose control. Therefore, what is typically called his "Final Form" is actually his Original Form, with the others being more Third, Second and First Regression forms.
I don't think this is necessarily true, that Freeza was referring to self-restraint. I think that his First Form is indeed his original form, and that the subsequent transformations are in response to his increase in power. "Difficult to control" doesn't necessarily mean "self-restraint". Also, even assuming it were actually a matter of self-restraint, that wouldn't necessarily mean that Freeza's Final Form is his original form. Just that maybe he had decided to revert back to his original form at some point.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:51 am

MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:14 am
While talking to Gohan in the ViZ translation, Piccolo says that he's in the Underworld; this is inaccurate because that would technically be Hell.
The term "underworld" is often used to refer to the realm of the dead in general, not just the Judeo-Christian concept of Hell.
I associate it with the Greek underworld which is where Hades and such live, as opposed to the Fields of Elysium which is closer to a Greek equivalent of Heaven.
MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:14 am
As has been noted by fans across the years, calling Freeza's forms "First/Second/Third/Final Form" is actually a bit of a misnomer: as revealed early in his fight, this is actually a form of self-restraint so that Freeza doesn't lose control. Therefore, what is typically called his "Final Form" is actually his Original Form, with the others being more Third, Second and First Regression forms.
I don't think this is necessarily true, that Freeza was referring to self-restraint. I think that his First Form is indeed his original form, and that the subsequent transformations are in response to his increase in power. "Difficult to control" doesn't necessarily mean "self-restraint". Also, even assuming it were actually a matter of self-restraint, that wouldn't necessarily mean that Freeza's Final Form is his original form. Just that maybe he had decided to revert back to his original form at some point.
Possibly, but I think in modern Dragon Ball canon with Frieza saying he never trained a day in his life (which is a brilliant idea IMO), it comes closer to what I stated where it's to keep his rampant power under control.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:31 am

KBABZ wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:51 am
MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:14 am
While talking to Gohan in the ViZ translation, Piccolo says that he's in the Underworld; this is inaccurate because that would technically be Hell.
The term "underworld" is often used to refer to the realm of the dead in general, not just the Judeo-Christian concept of Hell.
I associate it with the Greek underworld which is where Hades and such live, as opposed to the Fields of Elysium which is closer to a Greek equivalent of Heaven.
Okay, but not all mythological/religious concepts revolve around or originate from Ancient Greece or Christianity. In many cases, "underworld" just describes the afterlife.

Also, Kaio's planet isn't supposed to be located in Heaven or Hell, but in a different region of the Otherworld.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:34 am

MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:14 am
I never understood the big deal with the "piss off" scene back in the day. I guess maybe because I didn't think of "piss" as a swear word. It may have been too much for children's television I suppose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqhO-ciBO0Y
Every time someone links a clip from season 3 (or, really, any of the original Funi Z dub), I am somehow still surprised to hear how bad it is. Seriously, holy shit. This scene, it's almost like they were missing a page and the writers just had to come up with something to fill the mouth flaps... And they couldn't think of anything to put there.

As for "piss off", I'm sure George Carlin wouldn't consider putting it on his list, but they'd definitely censor it if he tried to say it on kids' TV.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:13 pm

Has anyone ever asked Chris Sabat or Sonny Strait about that line?

I’d say Ceyli Delgadillo but she seemed to have fallen off the face of earth.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:57 pm

I'm really surprised that Dende's "piss off" line somehow slipped past the censors in the edited version, especially given how much the dub was avoiding more stronger words like the plague at the time.
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2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:37 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:13 pm
Has anyone ever asked Chris Sabat or Sonny Strait about that line?

I’d say Ceyli Delgadillo but she seemed to have fallen off the face of earth.
I'm fairly sure a different line was used for the Ocean edit of the episode that aired on YTV after the Garlic Jr. saga premiered, so I think it's just a case of the engineers working on the TV edit slipping up. Makes a lot of sense that the only notable slip-up would happen this early, when they were still getting a feel for things.

I'll ask Arian if he has a clip.
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:57 pm
I'm really surprised that Dende's "piss off" line somehow slipped past the censors in the edited version, especially given how much the dub was avoiding more stronger words like the plague at the time.
My guess is Cartoon Network assumed Funimation could be relied on to not slip up (after all, Funi had their own standards and practices advisor), so they never really checked the episodes before airing them, then they realised the mistake, and muted it for subsequent airings.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:51 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:53 pm
This is one of many reasons why it amazes me that so many people still skip to Z... The pacing in literally the second story arc of Z takes such a massive dive in pacing... I'd argue pretty much the entire stretch from Goku and Ginyu switching bodies until Namek explodes, is nigh unbearable in Z.
There was just 15 chapters separating the anime from the manga, which makes me wonder why they didn't just produce an original anime arc instead of stretching things out.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:04 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:51 pm
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:53 pm
This is one of many reasons why it amazes me that so many people still skip to Z... The pacing in literally the second story arc of Z takes such a massive dive in pacing... I'd argue pretty much the entire stretch from Goku and Ginyu switching bodies until Namek explodes, is nigh unbearable in Z.
There was just 15 chapters separating the anime from the manga, which makes me wonder why they didn't just produce an original anime arc instead of stretching things out.
It probably never occurred to them. As well, Z is when they really started kicking up work on the movies, so the writers for original content would have been focusing on those instead.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:20 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:37 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:13 pm
Has anyone ever asked Chris Sabat or Sonny Strait about that line?

I’d say Ceyli Delgadillo but she seemed to have fallen off the face of earth.
I'm fairly sure a different line was used for the Ocean edit of the episode that aired on YTV after the Garlic Jr. saga premiered, so I think it's just a case of the engineers working on the TV edit slipping up. Makes a lot of sense that the only notable slip-up would happen this early, when they were still getting a feel for things.

Oh I’m not surprised a line intended for the uncut dub got mixed into the edited dub by mistake. I’m surprised the line existed at all considering Funimation otherwise never had any swearing in Uncut DBZ until around the Namek saga of the redub

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:55 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:20 pm
Oh I’m not surprised a line intended for the uncut dub got mixed into the edited dub by mistake. I’m surprised the line existed at all considering Funimation otherwise never had any swearing in Uncut DBZ until around the Namek saga of the redub
lol. Yeah, that's fair.

IIRC, Jheese says "Bugger" a few times in season 3 (which is sort of a swear in the UK), but yeah, I think "Piss off" is the only one that would be considered swearing in the USA. Otherwise, they played it very safe in regards to anything parents might complain about. Even in uncut, they refused to call Vegeta's daughter Bra (and yet they were perfectly fine including the full-length footage of Freeza brutalising Kuririn from this week's viewing in the uncut version). There's also that weird instance of visual censorship in the Ginyu Assault single that only happens if you watch dubbed.

Quite a contrast to their uncut dub of Kai 1.0, which I honestly find quite jarring with how loaded with swearing it is! :lol:
Feels kinda like they were trying to play it up as an "Adults anime! Not a kids' cartoon!", which -- to me, at least -- feels wrong for Dragon Ball. One of the many, many reasons I'm still not satisfied with Kai as "the dub that fixed the problems with the Z dub".
Though, of course, Kai has that rather hilarious case of a line from the TV edit accidentally ending up in the uncut dub, which makes their attempt at a mature, for-adults dub sound like it's still a 1996 weekday mornings TV dub.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:47 pm

In the old Z dub lines like Vegeta's "I am a friggin' genius" was as far as they were willing to go language wise, which is quite a huge difference when compared to just about a decade later in the Ultimate Uncut dub and especially Kai where there's multiple uses of damn, bastard, and i believe they even use freaking or friggin' at times but don't quote me on that. Pretty much everything short of "shit" and F-bombs.
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2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 54 - DBZ 75-79 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:46 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:47 pm
In the old Z dub lines like Vegeta's "I am a friggin' genius" was as far as they were willing to go language wise, which is quite a huge difference when compared to just about a decade later in the Ultimate Uncut dub and especially Kai where there's multiple uses of damn, bastard, and i believe they even use freaking or friggin' at times but don't quote me on that. Pretty much everything short of "shit" and F-bombs.
I'm pretty sure Ultimate Uncut is free of any swears. Maybe a "Hell" or a "Damn" once or twice, but I don't think it ever went any further.

Kai is where they went full Anime Labs. :lol:
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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