things that grind your gears

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Char Aznable
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Char Aznable » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:27 pm

One word - Frieza. I can’t even search for anything Freeza related anymore without putting in that dumb spelling or else nothing will come up.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by nickzambuto » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:11 pm

Char Aznable wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:27 pm
One word - Frieza. I can’t even search for anything Freeza related anymore without putting in that dumb spelling or else nothing will come up.
Agreed.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:20 am

Char Aznable wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:27 pm
One word - Frieza. I can’t even search for anything Freeza related anymore without putting in that dumb spelling or else nothing will come up.
Welcome to the club man, spelling it Freeza aa well... also because in French dub it was Freezer :lol:
FighterZ: Funky_Strudel
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Jiren The Alpha
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:08 am

People STILL believing that DB should have ended in Frieza or Cell saga or Gohan was suppost to kill buu but it got chance because Toriyama got death threats from Goku fans.

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ABED
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:52 am

The overemphasis on lore and world building and not enough on story or theme. For instance many think of the value of Goku as a Saiyan reveal to be a function of explaining why Goku is so special as opposed to the story making a point about hard work and overcoming limits.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:03 am

ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:52 am
The overemphasis on lore and world building and not enough on story or theme. For instance many think of the value of Goku as a Saiyan reveal to be a function of explaining why Goku is so special as opposed to the story making a point about hard work and overcoming limits.
I feel like it often gets overlooked that Goku really isn’t much stronger than expertly trained martial arts and he only surpasses them through hard rigorous training (and the super god water that one time) he’s weaker than Roshi and Tao when he first meets them. And about on par with Tenshinhan when they first fought. Most of his seeming super human feats are something completely earth grown martial artist in this story are capable of.


Even his love for battle and approving himself something fans attribute to his Saiyan genetics (because Vegeta believes it to be the case) comes more from being raised as a martial artist by his grandpa

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:18 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:03 am
ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:52 am
The overemphasis on lore and world building and not enough on story or theme. For instance many think of the value of Goku as a Saiyan reveal to be a function of explaining why Goku is so special as opposed to the story making a point about hard work and overcoming limits.
I feel like it often gets overlooked that Goku really isn’t much stronger than expertly trained martial arts and he only surpasses them through hard rigorous training (and the super god water that one time) he’s weaker than Roshi and Tao when he first meets them. And about on par with Tenshinhan when they first fought. Most of his seeming super human feats are something completely earth grown martial artist in this story are capable of.


Even his love for battle and approving himself something fans attribute to his Saiyan genetics (because Vegeta believes it to be the case) comes more from being raised as a martial artist by his grandpa
Kunzait wrote something a while back that has stuck with me ever since - he pointed out how common it is to find people in gyms with Goku shirts. Clearly something about Goku struck a nerve. I think it's his pure desire to overcome limits. It's the same reason Luke Skywalker struck a nerve with audiences - we all can relate to the desire for something more out of life. It's these emotionally resonant ideas that explain both stories' popularity, not plot or lore.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Yuji » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:08 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:03 am
I feel like it often gets overlooked that Goku really isn’t much stronger than expertly trained martial arts and he only surpasses them through hard rigorous training (and the super god water that one time) he’s weaker than Roshi and Tao when he first meets them. And about on par with Tenshinhan when they first fought. Most of his seeming super human feats are something completely earth grown martial artist in this story are capable of.
I disagree. Goku's status as a "prodigy" is given much attention in part 1 of the original series. He learned the Kamehameha after trying it once, he is easily able to defeat everyone he comes across searching for the dragon balls, he outclasses fellow martial artist Kuririn in every way, he nearly defeats a 300-year old master of martial arts in his first real tournament, and outclasses him in the following story arc by passing Karin's training in 3 days as opposed to Kame-sennin's 3 years. Afterwards, of course, he is also the only person to survive the super God water. Goku is very clearly treated as a one of a kind prodigy.

What I think is interesting is that there's a reversal of sorts by the time part 2 comes around. While thematically, the reveal that Goku is an alien serves as a prelude to the clash of genius and handwork personified through the battle with Vegeta, it also puts into perspective his entire performance in part 1. Goku is a prodigy, for Earthling standards, because he's part of a stronger alien race, but he's also trash for his race's (and by extension, the universe's) standards, and has to work comparatively much, much harder to catch up to everyone out there in space (the man dies and trains under intense gravity and other intense conditions all throughout Z; the training from DB part 1 is comparatively light).

We see this in action in the way DB part 1 and DB part 2 (as well as DBS) treat its main character in battle too. Whereas Goku wins nearly every fight in the first half of the series, he loses more often than he wins after Raditz arrives. I crunched the numbers a few years ago, and Goku's W/L ratio was something like 75% in part 1, compared to less than 35% in part 2 and something like 25% in Super.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:16 pm

Yuji wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:08 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:03 am
I feel like it often gets overlooked that Goku really isn’t much stronger than expertly trained martial arts and he only surpasses them through hard rigorous training (and the super god water that one time) he’s weaker than Roshi and Tao when he first meets them. And about on par with Tenshinhan when they first fought. Most of his seeming super human feats are something completely earth grown martial artist in this story are capable of.
I disagree. Goku's status as a "prodigy" is given much attention in part 1 of the original series. He learned the Kamehameha after trying it once, he is easily able to defeat everyone he comes across searching for the dragon balls, he outclasses fellow martial artist Kuririn in every way, he nearly defeats a 300-year old master of martial arts in his first real tournament, and outclasses him in the following story arc by passing Karin's training in 3 days as opposed to Kame-sennin's 3 years. Afterwards, of course, he is also the only person to survive the super God water. Goku is very clearly treated as a one of a kind prodigy.

What I think is interesting is that there's a reversal of sorts by the time part 2 comes around. While thematically, the reveal that Goku is an alien serves as a prelude to the clash of genius and handwork personified through the battle with Vegeta, it also puts into perspective his entire performance in part 1. Goku is a prodigy, for Earthling standards, because he's part of a stronger alien race, but he's also trash for his race's (and by extension, the universe's) standards, and has to work comparatively much, much harder to catch up to everyone out there in space (the man dies and trains under intense gravity and other intense conditions all throughout Z; the training from DB part 1 is comparatively light).

We see this in action in the way DB part 1 and DB part 2 (as well as DBS) treat its main character in battle too. Whereas Goku wins nearly every fight in the first half of the series, he loses more often than he wins after Raditz arrives. I crunched the numbers a few years ago, and Goku's W/L ratio was something like 75% in part 1, compared to less than 35% in part 2 and something like 25% in Super.
But not really because even among Saiyans, Goku stands out; not his power but his temperament. Vegeta's epiphany drives that point home.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:16 pm

Yuji wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:08 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:03 am
I feel like it often gets overlooked that Goku really isn’t much stronger than expertly trained martial arts and he only surpasses them through hard rigorous training (and the super god water that one time) he’s weaker than Roshi and Tao when he first meets them. And about on par with Tenshinhan when they first fought. Most of his seeming super human feats are something completely earth grown martial artist in this story are capable of.
I disagree. Goku's status as a "prodigy" is given much attention in part 1 of the original series. He learned the Kamehameha after trying it once, he is easily able to defeat everyone he comes across searching for the dragon balls, he outclasses fellow martial artist Kuririn in every way, he nearly defeats a 300-year old master of martial arts in his first real tournament, and outclasses him in the following story arc by passing Karin's training in 3 days as opposed to Kame-sennin's 3 years. Afterwards, of course, he is also the only person to survive the super God water. Goku is very clearly treated as a one of a kind prodigy.
Tenshinhan learned the KamehameHa after seeing it once. I’m not saying Goku isn’t special but being an alien didn’t put him on a better playing field that the fandom thinks it does.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Yuji » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:18 pm

ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:16 pm
But not really because even among Saiyans, Goku stands out; not his power but his temperament. Vegeta's epiphany drives that point home.
His temperament allows him to improve and close the gap much faster, but it doesn't explain away how he seems to be just naturally stronger than most of his enemies in part 1. Obviously his genetics play a role.
MasenkoHA wrote:Tenshinhan learned the KamehameHa after seeing it once
And was immediately lauded as a prodigy for doing so. Obviously, Toriyama didn't have in mind that Goku was a Saiyan with better physiology than his peers by the time Dragon Ball part 1 was written. What I am saying is that the reveal that he's an alien does allow us to put his extremely abnormal performance in part 1 (especially compared to the later series where he's constantly the underdog, rather than being the dominant fighter) into perspective.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:31 pm

We don't need an explanation as to why he's so special. He just is. It puts things in a new light but DB still functions without the reveal.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Yuji
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Yuji » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:33 pm

ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:31 pm
It puts things in a new light but DB still functions without the reveal.
Of course it does. I'm saying it re-contextualizes part 1, so you can't fault fans for picking up on it.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:39 pm

Yuji wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:33 pm
ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:31 pm
It puts things in a new light but DB still functions without the reveal.
Of course it does. I'm saying it re-contextualizes part 1, so you can't fault fans for picking up on it.
Only slightly since the audience never needed that question answered. Hell it wasn't really a question the narrative asked. We're just on board with this story of a prodigious kid with a tail. I don't think the fans really picked up on it like they did with a lot of stories now days where they want everything explained because everything needs to be some sort of mystery to be solved. Many kids saw DBZ first so the Saiyan reveal wasn't so much a reveal to them as much as something that was always there.

At best it serves as an explanation as to why he's so strong but as I've been saying, that was never a question that needed answering. It's dramatic purpose is to show how his character differs from that of his enemies. That's the value of the reveal, not exposition.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:05 am

I just realized that if 4Kids had survived a bit more until the Final Chapters and then to Super the survival of cartoons on Broadcast TV would have been assured. If DBZKai gave them a million IMAGINE Goku Vs Jiren! That REALLY grinds my gears.
MyVisionity wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:52 pm
It's ill-fitting for me. Dragon Ball is not a bedtime story. And "laid-back old man" is not how I would describe Yanami's narrator. To me he sounds like the kind of uncle that shows up to the birthday party with loads of fruit punch soda and stuffs himself with pizza and ice cream, or takes you out on his boat at the lake in the summer and goes skinny dipping or something.
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19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:22 pm

Char Aznable wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:27 pm
One word - Frieza. I can’t even search for anything Freeza related anymore without putting in that dumb spelling or else nothing will come up.
Its especially annoying when searching for the old singles on Ebay.
"Why run away from something you're not afraid of?" - Goku

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:23 am

Debates over DBZ and DBZ Kai being better. Debates on which woman is better for Kakarot. People complaining about Super Saiyan 4.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:05 am

Not sure if i didn't mention that already at some point, but:

People using non-existing forms names. There are three that i absolutely hate and can't stand, but they are extremely popular:

-MUI / Mastered Ultra Instinct (Real name: UI / Ultra Instinct)

That one was the mostly annoying during ToP. How is it MASTERED when Goku reached it only once and can't use it again? Manga is a bit different story now, but i'm referring to anime fans mostly. Still, no matter if he mastered it or not, it's just "Ultra Instinct".

-SSJ4 Full Power (Real name: Super Full Power Saiyan 4)

Not just name but a fact people say Goku used that form against Baby while the only thing he did was just going full power, that's it. Restoring his power. SFPS4 was a form Goku used in Shadow Dragons saga only and it was him going beyond his full power, breaking his limits. FUNimation is probably the one to blame here, as their dub for GT was disgusting and confusing. What's even more dumb is people calling the new version of that form in SDBH "SSJ4 Full Power: Limit Breaker".

-False SSJ (Real name: SSJ / eventually Pseudo SSJ)

This one is very weird. I personally don't like "Pseudo SSJ" name either. It was meant to be regular SSJ form but just had wrong colors and i still think about it as the same form Goku used against Frieza.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:32 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:05 am

That one was the mostly annoying during ToP. How is it MASTERED when Goku reached it only once and can't use it again?
.............


?????

He reached it three different times during the tournament of power.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:39 am

Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo dying and being rendered irrelevant in the Buu saga.
Nothing ground-breaking, just something that makes me INCREDIBLY salty.

Also, the amount of blatant misinformation in the DB fanbase. No, DB was NOT going to end after Namek, Toriyama was NOT pressured to stop having Gohan be the main character, and Toriyama does NOT hate Vegeta.
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