Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:51 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:20 pm
Can China still be considered a communist government at this point? Yeah, they call themselves communist, but they seem to have quite a few billionaires over there, and they’re becoming a pretty competitive market for consumerism.
They're less communist than they used to be, but they are still communist. The government controls the majority of the economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_market_economy
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:55 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:55 pm
Are you really trying to argue that the Chinese government is right-wing? They're more right-wing than they were 50 years ago, but still pretty hard left.
China is literally capitalist. It has a billionaire class, oppresses ethnic minorities, it attacks unions, it's constructed on socially conservative nationalism, literally funds a massive section of the US economy, has serious wealth disparity, is allied with apartheid ethnostates, and attacks leftist groups all of the damn time. The only "leftist" thing about the CCP is having the word "Communist" in it's name. To deny this displays a serious misunderstanding of progressive thought, and the concept of a belief system in the first place.
China is moving towards capitalism but the government still controls most of the industry there.

https://www.nber.org/digest/jun15/china ... privatized
Again, it is fundamentally not part of the philosophy unless your position is that literally no words have any meaning ever and everything is the same as everything else.

Look at this debate phrased in any other terms and you realize how absolutely idiotic it is; How big of a Dragon Ball fan does someone have to be before they decide that burning down a church is a good idea? Oh, what's that? It sounds completely fucking unrelated? Well sorry, but horseshoe theory says the majority of Dragon Ball fans aren't arsonists, therefore it only stands to reason that the most extreme ones would be. Them's the 8r8ks, kid.Image
That's a complete non-sequitur. It would only make sense if Dragonball fans had an ideology that could be stretched into the idea that 'church is bad', and then further stretched into 'it's okay to burn one down'.
If you are against dismantling the capitalist status quo, you are in favor of capitalism, which is the case for both Trump and Sanders. This is extremely fucking simple, and it is becoming more and more obvious that you're using "they're just fringe extremists" to group whatever politics you don't personally like in with people everyone hates as a matter of making them easier to dismiss. I can't say I'm a fan of that.
I'm in favor of a market economy with government control, so you can own a business and get rich but still have to pay your fair share in taxes and there is a solid safety net for the poor and disabled, so no one has to be homeless, starve, or go without effective healthcare. Many right-wing extremists call me a communist for that, but you appear to be a left-wing extremist who is coming at me from the other direction.
Did he say "Soviet style communism"? Why would I be arguing with something you've literally seen me say isn't even communist?
Then what do you define as communism and how do you plan for it to practically work? History has shown it doesn't, at least not with our current levels of technology and society.
Who says they believe that? You've just characterized any pro-choice conservative as a leftist. See how circular your logic is and how selectively you apply it?
I've never met a pro-choice conservative in person, but I suppose they exist. Let me amend my statement to say that a vast majority of conservatives in the US are against the pro-choice stance, and many of the other views that Rowling has espoused. They only really align with her on the trans thing. Besides, going by your own argument, there are conservatives that are pro - trans rights.
Nobody is doing this though, except possibly you by just branding any schmuck with a tank and a red flag as believing all the same things as the ones who want people to have healthcare.
I'm actually trying to show the difference between extremist views and moderate views. A socialist government where everyone has healthcare, no one is homeless or starving, etc. is left-wing but not extreme (except from the perspective of conservatives). But a communist government where the state controls all of the means of production is extreme left-wing.
The horseshoe effect is top-to-bottom bullshit that treats politics as an oversimplified binary and falsely equates about a hundred different cases of both moderates and extremism. You cannot meaningfully accuse random people of agreeing with the actions of dictators when you are so fundamentally inept at showing an ideological link between them.

Even the stupid political compass is better than this, and that thing's still horribly oversimplified thinly-veiled libertarian propaganda. Anarchists and tankies are both communists, and both "extremists", but you cannot possibly hope to argue that Mao Zedong was an anti-government anti-establishment anarchist. So demanding that people play into a political LARP where they have to answer for a government that is at least as far from their beliefs as a "regular" conservative is an aggression against the left that is never applied to the right.
No one is saying that anyone 'has to answer' for anything. I'm just saying that going too extreme in any direction leads to horrible policies. Anarchy is a specialized type of view that can be aligned with the far left or far right (Anarcho-communism: No government, no real leaders, everyone shares everything and works everything out - a fantasy that doesn't ever work in reality due to human nature. Then you have Anarcho-libertarianism: No government, no elected leaders, just survival of the fittest, whoever is the richest and has the most guns and money gets to boss everyone else around - a horrible idea for what should be obvious reasons). Most communist governments in practice end up on the authoritarian side though.
Last edited by Polyphase Avatron on Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:22 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:49 am
Well no, there definitely isn't. An anarchist revolutionary who hates cops, wants to abolish prisons and destroy capitalism is not on the same side as the horse paste-chugging Qanonite who wants whites to rule over the other races with a massive militarized police force. The only similarity is that they don't like when the police act against them, but there's never going to be anti-police police.

The only argument for equating these two would be if you were to claim one of them is lying about their beliefs, but that claim is apparently off the table unless it's to defend someone from being considered right-wing.
I think this shows your fundamental misunderstanding of the horseshoe effect. These two hypothetical individuals don't have the same goals or ideas, but still, they could easily find themselves working together in a riot, for example, because they would both have grievances against the same government but for different reasons. Person one hates the government because he views it as oppressing people. Person 2 hates it because he views it as not oppressing the right people. That's all that is required for them to temporarily put aside their differences and work together against the government, then only hash out their opposing ideologies later. This is a lot more common than you might think.

I already mentioned the example of white racist KKK types working together with black racist Hebrew Israelite types, because they both hate Jews. It sounds crazy on its face, but it has been observed to happen.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:26 pm

Aim wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:10 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:33 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:07 pm
Queer people are not allowed to exist in China. It is absolutely right-wing to regularly commit crimes against humanity.
Again, that's too simplistic. Extreme left-wing ideologies can (and have) committed crimes just as heinous than the most extreme right-wing governments. The USSR, Maoist China, and other communist governments are directly responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths.
China and the USSR weren’t extremely left wing, Stalin literally killed those who didn’t meet the quota for grain, don’t get me started on the blatant reactionary behaviour of both societies.
Left-wing politics and authoritarianism aren't mutually exclusive, though.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:51 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
China is moving towards capitalism but the government still controls most of the industry there.

https://www.nber.org/digest/jun15/china ... privatized
If the government is controlling the means of production, and the government is not socially-controlled, then the means of production are being privately controlled. You think working for the government right now is some kind of workplace democracy? No? Then it's not any different under a state-capitalist society.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
That's a complete non-sequitur. It would only make sense if Dragonball fans had an ideology that could be stretched into the idea that 'church is bad', and then further stretched into 'it's okay to burn one down'.
Yes, and they do have that ideology, just as much as the left has a "men bad" ideology, ie. not at all. So either left extremism is something different than playing mad-libs with conservative ideas, OR Dragon Ball fans are arsonists.

Don't look at me, they're your beliefs, after all.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
I'm in favor of a market economy with government control, so you can own a business and get rich but still have to pay your fair share in taxes and there is a solid safety net for the poor and disabled, so no one has to be homeless, starve, or go without effective healthcare. Many right-wing extremists call me a communist for that, but you appear to be a left-wing extremist who is coming at me from the other direction.
See? It becomes "extremism" once it's convenient for you to dismiss it, but we do not live in a moderate society and haven't for a very very long time.

Social democracy is better than liberal capitalism, but it is just as fallible and open to sabotage as any other form of capitalism and will not meaningfully last. If your ideology is founded on "trust in the system" and the system isn't allowed to change without input from the people trying to ruin it, you are going to end up with oligarchy eventually.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
Then what do you define as communism and how do you plan for it to practically work? History has shown it doesn't, at least not with our current levels of technology and society.
Well that's wrong, history doesn't say that, but moreover you are missing the point, which is that red-scare propaganda like you've been spouting is an easy-out for saying "both sides", declaring better things impossible and dismissing any disagreement as "too extreme".

And no, I'm not going to spend extra time explaining the foundation of everything I believe to someone clearly uninterested in taking what I have to say seriously. If you actually care about what other people believe, ask them in a less confrontational setting, pick up some Kropotkin or something.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
I've never met a pro-choice conservative in person, but I suppose they exist. Let me amend my statement to say that a vast majority of conservatives in the US are against the pro-choice stance, and many of the other views that Rowling has espoused. They only really align with her on the trans thing. Besides, going by your own argument, there are conservatives that are pro - trans rights.
But that means you have no qualms with slipping into "nothing means anything" territory, doesn't it? If you can't meaningfully distinguish between a conservative and a progressive, then you have absolutely no argument against me saying that people can lie about being leftists. I'm not the one making the argument that wings of political ideology are a monolith, just that there is not a meaningful reason to place someone on one end of the vaguely-defined spectrum or the other without a real introspective look into what they actually want just because they ask you to.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
I'm actually trying to show the difference between extremist views and moderate views.
I don't believe you. Not only would it already be extremely dishonest to ignore how extremely varied extremist belief is, you refuse to acknowledge that an extreme has to actually have a logical throughline to some more moderate position, and none of what you're dismissing as "left" extremism actually traces back to progressive belief. There is no way to believe something so much you suddenly believe the opposite of it. Your position only functions if you're already playing into the right's propagandist ideal where the left is just the right in reverse, rather than a fundamentally-different system of belief.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
A socialist government where everyone has healthcare, no one is homeless or starving, etc. is left-wing but not extreme (except from the perspective of conservatives).
Depends on what you mean by "socialist". If that country still has private industry, it's social democracy, which is capitalism.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
But a communist government where the state controls all of the means of production is extreme left-wing.
No, if the state controls the means of production, that's state capitalism. Communism is by-definition stateless, because any other strategy leads to some promise of an oppressive authority willingly giving up its own power, which does not happen and never will. It's the same principle as free-market idealism, the idea that being nice to the people limiting your money and food supply is somehow going to make them just suddenly decide to let you have rights.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
No one is saying that anyone 'has to answer' for anything. I'm just saying that going too extreme in any direction leads to horrible policies.
And your argument for this does not hold up to scrutiny! Fun, isn't it?
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
Anarchy is a specialized type of view that can be aligned with the far left or far right
That's wrong. All anarchists are communist and all communists are anarchist.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
Anarcho-communism: No government, no real leaders, everyone shares everything and works everything out - a fantasy that doesn't ever work in reality due to human nature.
Here's a quick thought experiment: if you tell me to pick a glass of water up off a table, but you murder me with an axe before I get to the table, is it fair to judge the glass of water as "impossible to pick up"? If a person can't drive without their glasses, is driving "impossible due to human nature"? Glasses aren't natural, after all.

I mean, not that you'd even be able to define what "human nature" is or what it means for a society to "work", but I know you also don't care what those things mean.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:11 pm
Then you have Anarcho-libertarianism: No government, no elected leaders, just survival of the fittest, whoever is the richest and has the most guns and money gets to boss everyone else around - a horrible idea for what should be obvious reasons).
Any corporation without a state to enable and protect it will itself create or become a state. Every state that has ever existed has eventually enforced property rights comparable to capitalism.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:22 pm
I think this shows your fundamental misunderstanding of the horseshoe effect.
It is not a misunderstanding, the effect isn't real.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:22 pm
These two hypothetical individuals don't have the same goals or ideas, but still, they could easily find themselves working together in a riot, for example, because they would both have grievances against the same government but for different reasons. Person one hates the government because he views it as oppressing people. Person 2 hates it because he views it as not oppressing the right people. That's all that is required for them to temporarily put aside their differences and work together against the government, then only hash out their opposing ideologies later. This is a lot more common than you might think.
It literally isn't. Look at how the police riots last year were absolutely inundated with fascist infiltration to intentionally sic the police on protestors. Look at how the public reacted to January 6th. You keep trying to make these examples of the left being just as bad, and then your example is decidedly anti-left.

How much do I have to love pizza before I want to bomb every pizzeria in the world and make sure nobody can eat it again?
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:22 pm
I already mentioned the example of white racist KKK types working together with black racist Hebrew Israelite types, because they both hate Jews. It sounds crazy on its face, but it has been observed to happen.
Neither of those groups are leftist. Reactionary conservatives can find common ground in who they hate because a psychotic persecution complex is the very core of their ideology.

Have you considered, for even a single second, that you might just be completely and utterly full of shit?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Skar » Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:00 am

Shaddy wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:51 pm
Have you considered, for even a single second, that you might just be completely and utterly full of shit?
Is that really necessary? It's not like he has any of these extremist views and just sharing some findings and experience.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:41 am

I don't think he has much experience to share at all, actually, nor do I feel my position is being treated with any more respect than that perfectly-legitimate proposition would suggest.

He is calling me extremist, and also saying all extremism is basically the same. It doesn't take a genius to see the implication there, and I am under no obligation to pretend it is in any way a fair or honest position to take.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Skar » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:13 am

Shaddy wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:41 am
He is calling me extremist, and also saying all extremism is basically the same. It doesn't take a genius to see the implication there, and I am under no obligation to pretend it is in any way a fair or honest position to take.
Did he? To be honest I might've missed it because I thought he was only discussing extremism in general and not accusing anyone on here.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by LostTimeLord » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:34 am

For the very little it's worth, this scene was indeed cut by Pop in the UK.
[scene where Yamucha wonder's why he's not been invited to the ToP]
YAMUCHA: What? You want Puar? If you need a shapeshifter, ask Oolong?
ROSHI: Well, for some reason, he refused.
OOLONG: One time I was trying to get back at Bulma may have taken things too far. I don't wanna get into details, but the whole thing left me mildly traumatised.
[cut to Goku training, abruptly ending the music mid-flow]
And in the next episode:
TENSHINHAN: He had something to attend to, a last bit of training he considers essential.
KURIRIN: Training? What's he still have to learn?
GOHAN: In this tournament, if you leave yourself open for even an instant, you're toast.
[dialogue references to Roshi's training and a cutaway scene him with a transformed Puar are cut here]
GOTEN (off-screen): Yeah they're here!
Even on the simulcast, I found Roshi's "training" over the line for a heroic character, not to mention that it's framed as minor character progression. At least when Roshi gets a slap in the face it's (to some degree) framed as a character flaw on his part.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Aim » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:55 am

Skar wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:00 am
Shaddy wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:51 pm
Have you considered, for even a single second, that you might just be completely and utterly full of shit?
Is that really necessary? It's not like he has any of these extremist views and just sharing some findings and experience.
Do you blame him? Polyphase Avatron has been ignoring his points for a while now. Especially on communism. To me it seems that Poly is doing the typical liberal thing to do which is ignore what the nuances of the context of the situation and opt a stance that instead of makes the world a better place, makes it a worse place, albeit not as fast as conservatives. Gotta suffer slowly though, right?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:02 am

Being trans and not being able to get the healthcare I need has taught me that the very foundational systems that we use in the US (capitalism, neoliberalism) is extremely flawed and leading to the death of people like me.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:27 pm

Fine then, you win. Capitalism is always evil and communism is the perfect way to go. All communist governments that ever did anything evil were actually right-wing governments in disguise. Let's have another October Revolution, I'm sure that nothing can possibly go wrong this time. :roll:
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Skar » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:54 pm

Aim wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:55 am
Do you blame him? Polyphase Avatron has been ignoring his points for a while now. Especially on communism. To me it seems that Poly is doing the typical liberal thing to do which is ignore what the nuances of the context of the situation and opt a stance that instead of makes the world a better place, makes it a worse place, albeit not as fast as conservatives. Gotta suffer slowly though, right?
To be honest I might've missed it since there were many long comments in this thread. I didn't think he even brought up his own political views or was criticizing anyone here specifically and it sounded like he was talking about extremism in general is bad and doesn't solve anything.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by theherodjl » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:59 pm

And life goes on...I hope.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:04 pm

Skar wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:54 pm
Aim wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:55 am
Do you blame him? Polyphase Avatron has been ignoring his points for a while now. Especially on communism. To me it seems that Poly is doing the typical liberal thing to do which is ignore what the nuances of the context of the situation and opt a stance that instead of makes the world a better place, makes it a worse place, albeit not as fast as conservatives. Gotta suffer slowly though, right?
To be honest I might've missed it since there were many long comments in this thread. I didn't think he even brought up his own political views or was criticizing anyone here specifically and it sounded like he was talking about extremism in general is bad and doesn't solve anything.
My own political views are pretty much aligned with those of Bernie Sanders. But apparently that's not far left enough for some people, so I must be just as bad as an alt-right Neo-Nazi. :crazy:
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:24 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:27 pm
Fine then, you win. Capitalism is always evil and communism is the perfect way to go. All communist governments that ever did anything evil were actually right-wing governments in disguise. Let's have another October Revolution, I'm sure that nothing can possibly go wrong this time. :roll:
You can't even misrepresent people consistently.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:04 pm
My own political views are pretty much aligned with those of Bernie Sanders. But apparently that's not far left enough for some people, so I must be just as bad as an alt-right Neo-Nazi. :crazy:
We have passed the point of bad-faith criticism to you literally accusing other people of exactly the thing you are doing. Absolutely fucking nobody accused you of being far-right, you are the one saying the far-left and far-right are the same. Please kindly sign off this forum and go think about what kind of person you want to be if you are going to be this shitty to your community and the people trying to have a discussion.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Duo » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:46 am

People tend to conflate Capitalism with Corporatism. It's a real shame in terms of effective communication regarding those subjects.

To stray more on-topic, though...I guess I really don't find most of Muten-Roshi's antics more offensive than that casual joke about Jaco accidentally committing genocide against an entire planet. I suppose Kame-sennin's perverted actions are a little more "down to earth", so-to-speak, but genocide is also a bad thing that people shouldn't do.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:41 am

Duo wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:46 am
People tend to conflate Capitalism with Corporatism. It's a real shame in terms of effective communication regarding those subjects.
Honestly, at this point (and by "this point" I mean "basically my entire life now") I'm noticing more and more that there are WAY too many people in society - and not just billionaire or millionaire corporate executives, but even like... average, everyday, ordinary schmucks who don't really have a pot to piss in - for whom capitalism is far, FAR more than just some abstract idea or societal system or academic concept to be picked apart and debated nalytically: rather they seem to have a SUPREMELY unhealthy emotional attachment to it and obsessive fixation on it, to the point that even merely SUGGESTING we can do better than it as a society, no matter how good the evidence or context to that point, is tantamount to ripping their childhood security blanket away from them.

I could make a very good, and very cogent analogy to this exact mentality with Morpheus' whole speech about how bluepills still hardwired to the Matrix are "so inured, so hopelessly dependent upon the system, that they will fight with their very lives to protect it"... but a gaggle of neckbearded losers and shit-for-brains online over the past 7 years has totally toxified and polluted THAT sort of analogy, sooooo...

(Note again, the immense irony and hallmark of human stupidity of the fact that The Matrix was a story created by a couple of trans women as, among other things, a transgender allegory that was co-opted and corrupted by a bunch of knuckle-dragging, socially-inept, emotionally-stunted moron cis white men on the internet to mean... everything that is the exact diametric opposite and antithesis to any of its original intended meaning, up to and including violently anti-trans and anti-women sentiment... purely as an emotional coping mechanism for the fact that they can't get laid and don't have any IRL friends, and don't want to place the blame for any bit of that on themselves and their own obvious flaws and failings. But I digress...)

Again though, we're talking about even people who have fucking NOTHING in the way of financial wealth or social standing within this system, and indeed for whom the current system has largely screwed them over the way it has most everyone else other than a relative, select handful of people... and yet, to even DARE question the slightest hint of capitalism as even just a base concept triggers and sets them off as if you sexually hit on their mom right in front of them.

Lets not lose sight of what capitalism even is (or is supposed to be theoretically) just definitionally: its an economic concept and social framework that is, at absolute BEST and in the most ideal and charitable of interpretations (and there's certainly plenty of far less charitable views of it that certainly hold more than their share of weight in credibility a this point), a purely utilitarian tool for basic societal functionality: and like most tools, is one that can ostensibly be improved upon, redesigned, and yes even made outright obsolete and no longer needed. And like most tools, it can also be fashioned into a weapon that can be used to harm people, to the point where it can become counter-productive and damaging to society instead of helping it.

What capitalism isn't supposed to be is an emotional ideal that is clung to with seemingly religious fervor the way that one clings to a loved one. And yet, to hear it from an awful LOT of folks out there, even those whom are in no way whatsoever benefitting from this system and are actively being made to suffer needlessly from it....

Point blank to anyone here to whom this in any which way applies: if you find that you have a genuine emotional investment in capitalism as anything more than a purely utilitarian tool - that can be changed and even discarded entirely as the need and situation arises - to the point where anything that remotely questions its use of effectiveness elicits a strong emotional reaction out of you that causes you to contort yourself into ridiculous knots to try and justify... then I genuinely EMPLORE you to do some INCREDIBLY deep, deep soul searching on why this is the case for you, and even to maybe consider going and seek actual mental help/counseling about it.

Cause one even cursory and honest objective look out there into the world and into society should make it very plain that... even under the most charitable interpretation of capitalism's use, it just ISN'T working and moreover that its actively the root cause (greed, selfishness, and the continued acquisition of money and riches even at the cost of the lives and safety of others, and the absolute power that that brings you in a capitalist society) behind a LOT of the societal decay and completely needless and cruel human suffering, misery, and death that's afflicting an ever-increasing BILLIONS of people throughout the world.

Simply put, which matters more you you when push comes to shove: the protection and proliferation of capitalism, an (again, at best) ENTIRELY abstract concept which is ostensibly and theoretically there to serve humanity and not vice versa... or the material betterment, safety, and care for actual, living, breathing, flesh, blood, and bone human beings like yourself that surround you every single day? And who encompass not just total faceless strangers, but also your own friends, family, and loved ones?

And yes, these two things are in direct conflict with one another and to deny that at this point is to deny basic and glaringly observable reality. Given where things have BEEN heading for quite some decades now, this is the clear and unmistakable moral, ethical, philosophical, and perhaps even spiritual choice that ALL OF US are going to HAVE to make at this point.

What matters more to you in the end: money/capital or people's lives? Riches and greed (be it for yourself, or some asshole looking down from a corporate skyscraper high above you whom you'll never meet and who clearly in no way gives a flying FUCK about you or your loved ones), or caring for and protecting your fellow man/woman/whatever?

Peel away ALL the other ridiculous, convoluted bullshit... this is the fundamental choice that all of humanity is currently being forced to face, whether we like it or not, by the current situation and paradigm. Money or humanity? You can only pick one.

To me at least personally, the choice is beyond obvious and easy... but the closer and closer to obvious doom that we're all getting, the more and more clear its becoming that this choice is WAY more disturbingly difficult for a LOT of people to make.

And end of the day, how many of us there are for whom this is a painstakingly tough choice vs how many of us for whom the (morally and objectively correct, even just in terms of sheer survival necessity) answer is easy and obvious is what's going to fundamentally make or break whether or not we come out the other side of this mess still intact as a species or become the next dinosaurs that future civilizations will be digging up fossils for and crafting theories for "what happened that wiped them all out?"

Or to put it another way, as I see it personally: when your own personal hangups and neurosis over largely abstract and theoretical nonsense is literally helping and contributing (in whatever way, big or small) to getting gobs and gobs of other people needlessly killed and/or made to live in pointless and easily preventable suffering and squalor... then at that point your personal baggage over abstract nonsense (whether it be about capitalism, your oh-so-fragile "masculinity" or what have you: and to be sure for no small number of men out there, those two things are often interconnected together in incredibly warped and basically psychopathic ways) should no longer fucking matter and should be ENTIRELY swept the fuck aside to prioritize what ACTUALLY matters more: saving people's lives.

I've said it before and will continue to say it: the only hierarchy that is real or that matters is the hierarchy of need. The rest of hierarchical thought (which much of capitalism itself is definitionally and intrinsically hinged upon) is largely pure bullshit that only exists to justify and rationalize unjust centers of power: power which is almost entirely contingent more on sheer, clueless-ass luck and historical inertia than anything else in terms of how it (sometimes almost arbitrarily) pools and coalesces in society.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Saiya6Cit
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Saiya6Cit » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:34 am

The only thing I can say is the world is not 1984 anymore, so what was overlooked back then, won't be anymore. We can't deny Roshi's actions are not very chivalrous, but we should at least be glad that we are all adults and can continue to watch it with an open mind.

I believe there are far worse things in latin america (I am mexican living in mexico so I have authority on the matter) that they denigrate women a lot, like for example reggaeton "music" and their music videos and many hispanic influencers and celibrities which are almost naked and sexual objects. Those are things involving real people, not just cartoons, but for some reason they are allowed...

I hope the issue stays in Argentina and does not reach Mexico. After all dragon ball is close to a religion here.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:22 am

I've personally never found Master Roshi's sexual antics funny in the slightest, and I'm glad there seems to be some kind of pushback against it. Unfortunately, this kind of humour is standard boilerplate not just within Dragon Ball, but within manga and anime in general in Japan given how very conservative and patriarchal the society is in that country. Hell, in the Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc in the Dragon Ball Super manga, there was a "gag" where Roshi was complaining about not being able to grope the female grunts or Moro's army when they invaded Earth.

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