Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:35 am

They really should just hire an erotic comics artist to draw these weird storylines and market them to adults. I'm sure you could actually sell a lot of books that way. Certainly better than writing these storylines for kids.

Also, the visuals would actually likely be HOT for once...
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by goku the krump dancer » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:38 am

Isn't that what Doujinshi are for?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:15 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:38 am
Isn't that what Doujinshi are for?
Yeah. You can do the same with official works, too. Not every indie artist draws pre-established IP, either.

I doubt they will but hell it's better than what they're doing now.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:04 pm

Oh God, society's back at it again, aren't they?

Honestly, I find it funny as all hell every time a country that allowed Dragon Ball/Z/GT/Kai/Super/the movies to air on TV and theaters in their uncensored form with not a word coming out of anybody, suddenly decided that it wasn't okay anymore and abruptly stops airing the anime in question. It's like, "Oh, so NOW it's bad, but when it was airing before it was fine? What is your logic??"

This reminds me of that time when they stopped airing the Valencian dub of the original Dragon Ball, or "Bola de Drac" in Valencian, because "it promoted violence and sexism", or when Pokémon was banned in the Middle East because they thought it promoted evolution (which it kinda did?), or when Pokémon got banned in Turkey because the government ordered a TV channel to stop airing the anime after two children leapt from balconies believing they had superhuman powers (what the fuck?).

...
...
...yeah, anime causes people to do some really weird shit sometimes.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:13 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:00 am
So it sounds like there were complaints and rather than edit out the offending scenes or remove the episodes (of which where complete filler) they just pulled the entire show.


I dunno sounds more of the same of “Company really doesn’t understand what the problem is only that this may impact their bottom dollar so they overreact”
Yeah there's a lot of cases of that happening, esPECIALLY with Shōnen anime. I don't like Roshi's perversion either, but you only see us cringing at worst and ignoring it at best. We don't angrily email Toei to remove any and all scenes of Roshi from Dragon Ball, do we? We don't march down the streets of our country holding picket signs, chanting "OUT WITH ROSHI", do we?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:15 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:15 pm
Yeah. You can do the same with official works, too. Not every indie artist draws pre-established IP, either.

I doubt they will but hell it's better than what they're doing now.
I don't think it should be a mystery why they don't make erotic adult content for a children's series. Yes, Dragon Ball has its dirty jokes and its outright fucking gross shit, but that is definitely not a justification to lean into it. I wouldn't ask this of Steven Universe just because the fusion dances read a little horny sometimes.
FPSSJ4_Goku wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:13 pm
We don't angrily email Toei to remove any and all scenes of Roshi from Dragon Ball, do we? We don't march down the streets of our country holding picket signs, chanting "OUT WITH ROSHI", do we?
If I thought it would work I would do both of those things. Seems like a small price to pay for the show to be better.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:28 pm

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:04 pm
Oh God, society's back at it again, aren't they?

Honestly, I find it funny as all hell every time a country that allowed Dragon Ball/Z/GT/Kai/Super/the movies to air on TV and theaters in their uncensored form with not a word coming out of anybody, suddenly decided that it wasn't okay anymore and abruptly stops airing the anime in question. It's like, "Oh, so NOW it's bad, but when it was airing before it was fine? What is your logic??"

Better late than never, right?...

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:26 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:15 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:15 pm
Yeah. You can do the same with official works, too. Not every indie artist draws pre-established IP, either.

I doubt they will but hell it's better than what they're doing now.
I don't think it should be a mystery why they don't make erotic adult content for a children's series. Yes, Dragon Ball has its dirty jokes and its outright fucking gross shit, but that is definitely not a justification to lean into it. I wouldn't ask this of Steven Universe just because the fusion dances read a little horny sometimes.
FPSSJ4_Goku wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:13 pm
We don't angrily email Toei to remove any and all scenes of Roshi from Dragon Ball, do we? We don't march down the streets of our country holding picket signs, chanting "OUT WITH ROSHI", do we?
If I thought it would work I would do both of those things. Seems like a small price to pay for the show to be better.
I mean, if it's labeled for 18+ I don't see the issue. The issue is that everything produced for DB up to this point is for kids, not adults, and should therefore not having this sort of BS in it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:51 pm

And yet, here we are, over 37 years later. Toei and the other two Big T's haven't moved on or at least rewritten/written Roshi out of the story. They haven't changed his character. And we still haven't been able to be heard. We've definitely been trying, though. We've definitely been trying to get change to happen!
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:53 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:28 pm
FPSSJ4_Goku wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:04 pm
Oh God, society's back at it again, aren't they?

Honestly, I find it funny as all hell every time a country that allowed Dragon Ball/Z/GT/Kai/Super/the movies to air on TV and theaters in their uncensored form with not a word coming out of anybody, suddenly decided that it wasn't okay anymore and abruptly stops airing the anime in question. It's like, "Oh, so NOW it's bad, but when it was airing before it was fine? What is your logic??"

Better late than never, right?...
I think more like "Better do something now rather than wait until it's too late". They should've figured that Roshi would be problematic in the future from the moment he asked to see Blooma's tits.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:01 pm

I think Toei will capitulate to these growing concerns. If they got rid of all the blood to make it easier for countries to dub it they may do this also.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Kunzait_83 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:17 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:35 am
They really should just hire an erotic comics artist to draw these weird storylines and market them to adults. I'm sure you could actually sell a lot of books that way. Certainly better than writing these storylines for kids.
I really cannot stress this enough that the problem with the Muten Roshi stuff really is NOT that they're sexual jokes in a children's work. Children are, broadly speaking, perfectly able to process sexual themes and concepts (provided they have, you know, good stable parenting at home, or at least some sort of positive guidance in their lives). Hell, children themselves are PLENTY filthy dirty in their own humor just when left to their own devices. It really cannot be said enough that people WAY over-romanticize and over-estimate how "innocent" children actually are.

The issue with Muten Roshi is the CONTEXT and the FRAMING behind the sexual jokes and the subtext behind them (i.e. sexual assault is funny, harmless, and no big deal). Not that this is in any remote way the most pressing thing to worry about, given the current social climate, but it would be nice if we don't swing this so far into actual pearl-clutching prude territory, at least of the "Won't someone think of the children?!" variety.

Kids can deal with all kinds of themes, sexual or otherwise, provided that they're contextualized properly.

This is a particularly extreme example I'll grant you, but there's an infamous Go Nagai manga by the name of Violence Jack, which for the first half of its run or so was actually Shonen - meaning it was aimed at children - and from the getgo it not only was filled to the brim with the most grisly of violence, but lots and I mean LOTS of graphic depictions of rape. Of a kind that wouldn't at all be out of place in most grindhouse films.

The difference being that the rape was ALWAYS properly contextualized: rape was presented consistently as not only one of the most vile and horrific things you could do to someone, but also the manga dealt heavily with the trauma that it leads to.

One notable storyline centers on a young boy who, before the giant earthquake that sets off the manga's broader storyline, was sexually assaulted by one of his teachers in school. This leads to an entire complex he has developed from the incident about how he views himself as an object of sexual desire and temptation for adult men: which is particularly horrifying given the post-apocalyptic setting of Violence Jack, where roving gangs prey on and rape people freely and openly in a lawless hellscape. His whole storyline explores that whole theme of how some rape survivors view themselves and how they process that trauma, and its just downright gut-wrenching and harrowing.

This is, once again, in a manga that (for its first half at least) was aimed at the exact same children's demographic as Dragon Ball (Shonen). And here it works because its properly contextualized and handled with the appropriate level of seriousness and care that it warrants. And its framed from the perspective of the victim (who is himself a child, much like the manga's target demo) and the reader is placed in THEIR shoes and meant to empathize with them.

Children SHOULD be properly educated enough about sex early on that they can be able to start learning how to process sexual themes in media and in storytelling: a BIG part of the problem we have in American culture is that we DON'T teach kids about these things until ABSURDLY late in life.

We over-shelter the living fuck out of our kids for many of the most crucial developmental years of their lives (psychologically and emotionally speaking), and then just dump everything on them all at once way, WAY too later on in life and with almost NO proper context oftentimes. And we do this sincerely believing that THAT will make them "better adjusted" and are continually baffled every time we raise yet another crop of young people with profoundly screwed up views on human sexuality.

The issue isn't "How dare Toriyama and Toei put dirty sex jokes into a children's manga/anime." The issue is "How dare Toriyama and Toei put sexual jokes that are irresponsibly framed and poorly thought through in a children's manga/anime".

If anyone here genuinely believes that most young kids aren't talking or thinking about sexual subjects on their own, regardless of what media they're exposed to, then you're either just flat out in denial and lying to yourselves straight up, or are projecting your own hyper-sheltered perspective onto everyone else (and there is a motherfucking LOT of the latter that goes on in THIS community in particular on the regular).

Particularly with a topic that's as complex, nuanced, and important as sexuality, it is INSANE to think that kids should be shielded from acknowledging or thinking about it 24/7 all throughout their developmental years. Particularly from within the media that they consume, since (when properly handled anyway) storytelling media - and humor - can be an incredibly useful teaching tool to help supplement/buttress what they're (hopefully, ostensibly) learning properly from their parents and their school/home lives.

The problems arise when the topic is handled and framed poorly and contains retrograde, regressive views and subtext on sexuality (as the Muten Roshi jokes so often do). You can even make dark, fucked up jokes on these topics, provided once again that the framing and context of it is rooted in a sound, ethical framework where the target of the humor isn't aimed downward at the vulnerable.

I think this is incredibly important, critical nuance: in part because this helps keep things in perspective and keeps the pendulum from swinging the other way into "Church Lady" conservative territory, and also in part moreover because I think that the continued over-sheltering of children and constant underestimating of what they can handle and process early on (provided again, that its framed and contextualized properly for them) is what leads to a LOT of this bullshit psychological baggage stacking up in people's minds and personalities over time and becomes increasingly harder and harder to deal with later on in life.

Point being: kids can handle dirty sex jokes more than fine and should be raised and educated properly to the point where they can better navigate dirty jokes and sexual humor on their own. Shielding them from it outright entirely will not only solve nothing, it only makes these problems WORSE in the long run. That should NOT be the takeaway from the Muten Roshi thing here (that we need to shield kids from sex even more in their media): the takeaway should be "we need to better think through and be more careful in how we handle sexual material in media aimed at kids".
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:47 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:26 pm
The issue is that everything produced for DB up to this point is for kids, not adults,
Well, that's for a reason, and it's not just marketing. If you have a kids series that officially also contains pornography, there's a pretty necessary connection there that's going to happen in advertising, archival, fandom discussion, et cetera. It's one thing for Teen Titans rule34 to exist on newgrounds, it's another entirely for Cartoon Network to produce it.

And sure, you could make the argument that we should be limiting kids' access to the adverts, archives and fandoms as well, but I'm pretty sure when I was eight on the Sonic wiki that it might have been weird for my development for it to link to a bunch of furaffinity pages.

I do agree with Kunzait that kids can handle sexual topics and themes in media much better than we give them credit for, but there's gotta be some distinction when you're talking about outright erotica or pornography, in my eyes.

Like it or not, the more official sanction something has, the more people are going to be exposed to it, including kids in this case. I don't think the responsibility of whether something is worth promoting in that manner should be left up to the corporations in the first place.

And again, yeah, a lot of that would rest on the parents, but to a certain degree that's making the same argument as "just don't let your kids watch DB if Roshi's going to grope people". I know the DB manga has some softcore stuff with Bulma already, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Duo » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:22 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:39 pm

Sexual assault is normalized and minimalized all the time.


This. Isn’t. Hard.
This honestly does not apply to my life experience. Every workplace I've been in, along with most social situations....do not condone that type of behavior. I feel bad for folks who have to deal with it, but it's probably not as prolific as certain parties tend to claim.

My point is that a 1980's gag manga is going to do it's thing. There's no point in dwelling on it, and it's certainly not helpful to focus on perverted jokes made 30 years ago. Cancel culture can move the fuck on.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:28 am

Duo wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:22 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:39 pm

Sexual assault is normalized and minimalized all the time.


This. Isn’t. Hard.
This honestly does not apply to my life experience. Every workplace I've been in, along with most social situations....do not condone that type of behavior. I feel bad for folks who have to deal with it, but it's probably not as prolific as certain parties tend to claim.
Of all the tone deaf statements…..


I personally don’t have to deal with so it probably isn’t that big of a deal!!!!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Duo » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:34 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:28 am

Of all the tone deaf statements…..


I personally don’t have to deal with so it probably isn’t that big of a deal!!!!
I get the impression that you overestimate the value of your experience. There is a wide world of experiences and culture out there, and you shouldn't get so annoyed when it doesn't line up with your values.

There is also nothing to gain from attempting to "summarize" contesting parties with shallow statements like that. Grow up.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:02 am

Duo wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:22 am
This honestly does not apply to my life experience. Every workplace I've been in, along with most social situations....do not condone that type of behavior. I feel bad for folks who have to deal with it, but it's probably not as prolific as certain parties tend to claim.

Duo wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:34 am
I get the impression that you overestimate the value of your experience.
Uhhh...

Like you totally just did??

And who exactly are these "certain parties" that you are referring to? The "folks who have to deal with it"? Or other individuals from the "wide world of experiences and culture out there"?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:33 am

Duo wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:34 am
I get the impression that you overestimate the value of your experience.
He isn't talking about "his experience". He's talking about the experience of virtually most women out there across a wide, WIDE variety of professional fields and workplaces.

We're guys. We don't have to typically deal with rampant, entrenched sexual harassment in workplaces. Women do, for a whole host of shitty, unjustifiable reasons (not least of which include how we've socially conditioned both genders, both explicitly and implicitly, to behave around one another regarding sex over the course of many, many, many generations now).

No one here's "overestimating our own experience". We're listening to the experiences of other people who aren't ourselves and we're seeing with our own eyes upon closer examination that they're largely right and that they're overwhelmingly telling the truth. And actual research and statistical analysis bears it out.

A whopping 75% of all victims of workplace sexual harassment/assault in the United States experience direct retaliation for speaking up about it. 75 fucking percent. And that's just in the U.S. alone. That's incredibly damning. God only knows what the numbers for that are across other territories.

Put simply Duo, you have this exactly backwards: HE (Masenko) isn't overestimating the value of his experience in this case. YOU are.

Duo wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:34 am
There is a wide world of experiences and culture out there, and you shouldn't get so annoyed when it doesn't line up with your values.
There exists NO set of values or principals or norms on this planet that are worth a damn that dictate that sexual assault and harassment of ANY sort is in the least bit permissible or excusable or valid. Period, end of. If someone's values deems that such behavior is cool, then they have shit values. I don't give a crap what part of the world they're from, or what time period they grew up in. They're flatly fucking wrong, and hideously so.

You don't sexually assault or harass women. Or ANYONE. Ever. Period. End of. If someone treats it in ANY WAY like its no big deal or not a huge issue or just harmless fun that isn't that serious... then they're fucked in the head. They're flatly fucking wrong. On this fundamental level, this actually IS a black and white issue (and I'm normally the nuance guy here). This isn't a debate, this isn't up for negotiation. This is zero tolerance shit. This is stuff we all have known on some level for our entire lives: and if someone somehow hadn't gotten the memo back in the day, they damn sure better have by now.

And yes, I absolutely will include Akira Toriyama in that without so much as batting a fucking eye: if the Muten Roshi shit is in ANY remote way a reflection or indication of how he views sexual assault/harassment on ANY level, conscious or subconscious, then he's fucking wrong and he's a fucking creep. Period. Again, this isn't a hard or difficult issue.

And even giving Toriyama the most generous possible benefit of the doubt and saying for the sake of argument that its NOT a reflection of how he really feels deep down (which I sincerely hope its not), then at ABSOLUTE BEST and most charitable, he didn't in any way remotely think through the implications of what his jokes were putting out there through his work.

In the absolute best possible case scenario, he at bare minimum was a total fucking idiot about how he handled these jokes (most of which aren't even that funny in and of themselves anyway, and are some of the cringiest bits of the series, easily). At BEST possible case scenario.

And like I just got through explaining in my last post, I'm very much PRO dumb, dirty sex jokes. I'm vehemently in favor even of the pitch darkest, most fucked up, and envelope-pushing humor out there. Yes, aimed at little kids even. But the thing about dirty, dark humor is that its a fine art that you have to be VERY carful with and can't wield about irresponsibly or without thought to what it is you're actually doing and saying, or even implying. You have to actually think through what it is you're joking about and remember to gut check and ask yourself "What exactly am I saying here with this stuff? Who is my target, what is the butt of my joke, and what am I putting out there in aggregate?"

Just for a random, notable example that perfectly illustrates my point here, this is PRECISELY why Dave Chappelle walked away from his (outstanding, well regarded, and beloved) sketch comedy show back in the early/mid 2000s right when it was still in its prime. He carefully rethought and reexamined the jokes he was putting out there with the show, he looked at some swathes of the audience he was attracting with it, he looked at some of the types of laughs they were getting and what aspects of each joke they were most strongly responding to and why, and he asked himself "What effect and impact is my humor actually having here?"

He actually gave a shit about people apart from just himself in other words, and moreover he put careful, critical thought into what he saw as negative repercussions to his jokes that he didn't initially foresee when he first started telling them.

And this was back in motherfucking 2005. Chappelle literally cancelled himself long before "cancel culture" was even a buzzword that existed. He threw away a TON of money and a LOT of prestige and industry clout in doing so. He had nothing whatsoever to gain from it and absolutely everything to lose. So why did he do it? Because he actually gave two shits about what he was putting out there into the world. He thought about others, not just himself.

Gee, its almost like the complete fucking assholes you see on the internet who constantly go on and on about "empty, hollow virtue signaling from SJWs" and how anyone who does anything the least bit good or considerate for others are only doing so for purely self-serving and selfish reasons are usually just engaging in MASSIVE amounts of projection and are primarily just telling on themselves regarding what colossally empty, hollow, morally unimaginative, selfish, stupid, myopic, and vacuous lowlifes they are.

Look, I love dirty humor. I love risque jokes that push the bounds of good taste. Hell, one of my favorite movies of all time is Meet the Feebles, which includes (among other things) a muppet frog that has heroin induced Vietnam flashbacks, a muppet rabbit that catches STDs from constant group sex, a muppet fly that literally eats shit from a toilet with a teaspoon, a muppet fox that has an entire broadway-style song and dance number about how much he loves sodomy, and a muppet hippo that ends the movie with a mass shooting spree that wipes out most of the main cast in a bullet and blood splattered orgy of machinegun fire. I'd show that movie to little kids even (provided I knew they could handle it). Hell, I was absurdly fucking young myself when I first saw it.

But like... in order for ANY jokes to work, dirty and edgy or otherwise, you have to actually think the fuck through what it is you're framing with them, what it is you're taking aim at, what worldview you're painting, etc. Are you punching up, or are you punching down? What is it that you're putting out there into the world and what social framework are you combating or reinforcing? The great comedians actually DO think about these things, and its usually very often the shitty, hack ones who could care less.

And this is evidently horrific and unfathomable for a lot of people to stomach the mere thought of because... frankly far, far too many people just don't even WANT to do ANY thinking about ANYTHING at all, period. Thinking is difficult, its complex, and it leaves you with a lot of very uncomfortable, uneasy, and oftentimes ambiguous and not easily answerable questions.

But guess what? That's fucking life. Life IS inherently uncomfortable, uneasy, ambiguous, and filled to the brim with not easily answerable questions. It ALWAYS has been: some people are just more over insulated against it for a lot longer than others. So you either nut the fuck up, deal with it, and adapt to actually meet the challenge accordingly... or you can just sit there marinating in self-pity and mope and pout about how tough it is like a fucking overgrown toddler.

And god knows we as a broader online nerd culture have a MASSIVE goddamn surplus of overgrown toddlers to deal with.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Koitsukai
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:17 am

Duo wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:34 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:28 am

Of all the tone deaf statements…..


I personally don’t have to deal with so it probably isn’t that big of a deal!!!!
I get the impression that you overestimate the value of your experience. There is a wide world of experiences and culture out there, and you shouldn't get so annoyed when it doesn't line up with your values.

There is also nothing to gain from attempting to "summarize" contesting parties with shallow statements like that. Grow up.
You are literally overestimating yours, using it as some basis for concluding it is not as prolific as other parties claim it to be. Don't you see how narrow-sighted and flawed your argument is??

Your personal experience does not reflect the actual world where another 7 billion people live in.

edit: also what was that about other cultures and not getting annyoyed if they don't line up with ours? so it's fine that they stone women in some countries. Nice take!

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Cipher
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Cipher » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:46 pm

A couple of things:

1) The scene that prompted this thread aired ... what, three years ago? We've all made our peace, I would think, with the original series being what it is, but I do hope some difficulties in airing Super internationally wakes Toei up to the rest of the world having moved on from jokes where sexual harassment is the entire punchline in 20-god-damn-17.

2) I think it's always worth being massively cautious about attributing, with distant reverence, anything to a "cultural difference" that involves potentially harmful power dynamics--as, say, depiction and treatment of sexual harassment does. A lot of times what ends up being propped up and supported, intentionally or otherwise, is the oppressive majority or status quo of a country, rather than any part of universally connected culture connected to it. Which is to say, the argument that winds up being made when people try to pass things like this off as "the culture" is--whoops--the total erasure of people who are affected negatively and vocally against it in Japan as well, and a conflation of "the culture" with "tonedeaf older men in positions of creative and political power." It's, uh ... certainly "the culture" as reactionary entrenched social power structures would like it to be! Yay?

Or, to put it another way that might almost seem too blunt, even though the comparison is accurate: If you look at past eras of America through the same lens, "the culture" was that only white men should enjoy full political rights. Of course that winds up being a pretty grotesque argument to make, because that "culture" was obviously never anything embraced by the people it hurt and gave no say--it was was never worth respecting and keeping. It wasn't really culture--it was a harmful political-social reality set by minority rule-makers.

These things are never monoliths. If you catch a whiff of reinforcing existing, harmful power dynamics, you'd better believe there are plenty of people within the country/culture in question who are fighting to change it too--whether or not the decision-makers are ceding enough of a platform for them to be heard.

Being more comfortable with nudity is part of Japanese culture? Hey, yeah, sure! Make that argument all day long. Being more comfortable with making light of sexual harassments is part of Japanese culture? Eeeeeergh, yeah, I don't know; you might want to talk to some of the people negatively affected by it.

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