Non-thread-worthy discussions

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Ssj3Engels
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Ssj3Engels » Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:21 am

Thank you, VegettoEX.

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Grimlock
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Grimlock » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:44 pm

Well, well, well... This scan "seemingly" states that Bardock OVA was written by Akira Toriyama. Ooishi Naho only illustrated it.


This should automatically make the OVA "canon" (for those who think there's a canon) in Dragon Ball, right? :lolno:


Anyway, they really should start mentioning Dragon Ball Online events at this point. Mira and Towa should also appear as his arch-enemy. Even in Xenoverse materials and such, they rarely mention the name of the game that freaking inspired them in the first place.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:18 am

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:44 pm
Well, well, well... This scan "seemingly" states that Bardock OVA was written by Akira Toriyama. Ooishi Naho only illustrated it.

(bad scanlation)

This should automatically make the OVA "canon" (for those who think there's a canon) in Dragon Ball, right? :lolno:
Nope! Nothing new or revelatory here. You should consider dumping wherever you're getting this kind of stuff from.

We've known from the start precisely what Toriyama's and Ooishi's roles were on Episode of Bardock, and this doesn't change anything. As usual, this is a misreading/misinterpretation of the standard 原作 (gensaku) credit that Toriyama gets on anything and everything Dragon Ball.

(actual page from the November 2021 issue of V-Jump seen here)

Image

That's the exact same 原作 (gensaku; "Original Author" or more like "Original Work") and 監修 (kanshū; "Supervisor" or "Editorial Supervisor") we've had from the very start:

(actual page from the August 2011 issue of V-Jump seen here)

Image

As a point of comparison, Toriyama received the same credit combo for Dr. Slump Returns for a Little Bit, a manga that was written by Takao Koyama and illustrated by Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, perfectly mirroring Episode of Bardock which was written and illustrated by Naho Ooishi (the "manga" credit).

Image

It's the same trap Viz keeps falling into with Dragon Ball Super, where they translate 原作 as "Written By" and sends new fans into spirals of antagonism like clockwork on the 21st of each month.

Image

(Toriyama, of course, contributed the designs for Chilled and the Plantians, but he was not responsible for writing the story in Episode of Bardock.)
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Grimlock
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Grimlock » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:24 pm

Ah, knew something was off. Glad I didn't bother to come up with a new thread just for a most likely mistranslation or anything. Thanks for the clarification!

Do you happen to have an actual image that states the name of that race to share with us? I believe I've never seen it before, but here I am seeing "Plantseijins" again.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by The Accountant » Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:53 pm

When would you recommend watching Special #01?

I'm in the process of re-watching the whole series with a couple of friends. We are currently at EP 107 of the original show and was thinking ahead to when we would watch the DBZ specials. In particular Special #1. The majority of people who've discussed this topic have suggested watching this one after Vegeta's death, at the hands of Freeza. I feel like that is way too late. We are shown in the Special that Goku will fight base-form Freeza. Some have labelled this as a mistake, cause he is clearly in final form at the time of Vegeta's death. As a result, here is one of many headcanons: Bardock had not seen Freeza's final form, so when he had the vision, Freeza was still in his base. No, he pictured Goku in his Namek Gi, something he had never seen before, so why would it exclusively apply to Freeza. Keep in mind that this special came out while Freeza was still in his base form. That is the reason.

Kai's placement of these scenes is way too early, with them being shown as a prologue to Episode #01. This would spoil SO MUCH for people who are new to the series, and I feel like it would take away and ruin the tension built up in the Saiyan saga.



Ok, so here is where I am thinking. Watch Special #01 just after the end of the Saiyan Saga. Here is why:

- I think this Special serves as a fantastic introduction to the character of Freeza, much more so than in the anime.
- I think this also works as a segway or a bridge between these two sagas, making them feel more interconnected than they otherwise would have.
- It doesn't really spoil that much apart from the appearance of Freeza, and his two underlings: Zarbon, and Dodoria [which are introduced anyway, a few episodes later in the anime], as well as the idea that Goku will meet Freeza at some point.
- It creates some dramatic irony moving back into the anime, cause we as the audience know who Freeza is, but the protagonists do not.
- Provides a backstory for the two major antagonists from the previous saga, a few episodes prior.
- It subverts your expectations, cause you are shown that Goku will encounter base-form Freeza. So, when Goku doesn't confront the tyrannical ruler in his base form, the audience is more engaged to see how events will turn out.
- The ending credit montage doesn't show any scenes after Goku vs. Vegeta.

Is there any reason why you wouldn't watch Special #01 as early as I have proposed? Genuine question, cause I don't want to ruin the series for my friends.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:32 pm

The Accountant wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:53 pm
[When would you recommend watching Special #01?[/

Anytime after Goku switches to his Namek gi but before Freeza reveals his ability to transform. Bardock sees Goku in his Namek gi and only sees Freeza in his first form in his vision so yeah I would place it in that time frame. It aired between episode 63 and 64 so that feels as good as time as any.

Nothing wrong with watching it after the Saiyan arc but since Dodoria revealing Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta is supposed to be a twist for the audience, who up to that point had been told it was destroyed by a meteor shower, it really should be watched at least after that reveal.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:52 pm

The Accountant wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:53 pm
When would you recommend watching Special #01?
For whatever it's worth, the tv special first aired in the middle of the Ginyu battle, after Vegeta kills Gurd and before the Rikumu fight.

If you don't like that spot, I think that sometime right after the fight with Captain Ginyu would work well enough. Any more than that seems too late.

I don't think that it should be viewed as a bridge between the Saiyan and Namek arcs because, aside from going against the intended viewing order, I don't think that it serves as any kind of suitable introduction for the characters. I think that both the characters and the plot of the special carry a greater weight and impact when the main story has already progressed into the middle of Namek. By then, the seeds have already been planted, so to speak.

Generally speaking, however, assuming that you don't secretly hate your friends, I would try and remain closer to the intended viewing order and not take any radical departures from it. Especially for a first time viewing. Not only does it show a greater respect to the series itself, but also to the viewers (your friends).

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by The Accountant » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:56 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:32 pm
The Accountant wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:53 pm
[When would you recommend watching Special #01?[/

Anytime after Goku switches to his Namek gi but before Freeza reveals his ability to transform. Bardock sees Goku in his Namek gi and only sees Freeza in his first form in his vision so yeah I would place it in that time frame. It aired between episode 63 and 64 so that feels as good as time as any.

Nothing wrong with watching it after the Saiyan arc but since Dodoria revealing Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta is supposed to be a twist for the audience, who up to that point had been told it was destroyed by a meteor shower, it really should be watched at least after that reveal.
I would try and remain closer to the intended viewing order and not take any radical departures from it.
Fair enough. Thank you all, these are definitely things to consider.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Noah » Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:03 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:01 pm
Is it me or most of the "Non worthy" post could make awesome threads that would be better than the constant barrage of dullness we get?
Just you. Cause sometimes passes though my mind things silly like: "Did Goku and Gohan used the same armor suit the whole year in RoSaT?" and then I remember it would be stupid to create a thread about that, so I'm glad this one exists.
The Accountant wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:53 pm
Ok, so here is where I am thinking. Watch Special #01 just after the end of the Saiyan Saga.
Loved your suggestion, I used to watch this special before the Saiyan arc, but now I know a better order to watch it. What would say about History of Trunks? I tend to go the obvious route (before his introduction), but I don't know probably I could watch this one in a better order too.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:07 pm

Noah wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:03 pm
Loved your suggestion, I used to watch this special before the Saiyan arc, but now I know a better order to watch it. What would say about History of Trunks? I tend to go the obvious route (before his introduction), but I don't know probably I could watch this one in a better order too.
I'd insert #2 after Trunks kills Freeza/before 19 and 20 show up after the 3 years. That way, Trunks feels mysterious when he first shows up, plus you're like "Who the hell are these guys?" when 19 and 20 show up, since you know what Trunks' androids look like.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by The Accountant » Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:55 am

Noah wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:03 pm
Loved your suggestion, I used to watch this special before the Saiyan arc, but now I know a better order to watch it. What would say about History of Trunks? I tend to go the obvious route (before his introduction), but I don't know probably I could watch this one in a better order too.
Thanks, I really appreciate this. As for Special #02 [The History of Trunks], I don't really have as much of a stance on this compared to Special #01. When I did my first watch through of 'Z' I slotted it between EPs 133 & 134 [after #17 and #18 are activated]. Artificial-Human #16 is introduced in the following episode {134}, so I wouldn't watch it any later than that.

That being said, I'm thinking of placing this Special anywhere between EPs 122 & 125. (Similar to Demon Prince Piccolo's suggestion. Depends if you watch filler or not.) The appearance of #19 & #20 would definitely subvert expectations for audiences. Personally, I wouldn't watch it before Trunks' gives Goku the heart medication. I think the first couple of episodes of that saga serve as a fantastic entrance for his character on their own.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:45 pm

So I'm re-watching the Red Ribbon Army arc of Dragon Ball (first time subbed), and the part where Goku bitch slaps the hell out of Silver with his tail (along with the way it's framed and paced, everything) is HILARIOUS. I don't think I've ever laughed that hard at any moment in the series and I can't believe I never found that this funny before. :lol:
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:08 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:45 pm
So I'm re-watching the Red Ribbon Army arc of Dragon Ball (first time subbed), and the part where Goku bitch slaps the hell out of Silver with his tail (along with the way it's framed and paced, everything) is HILARIOUS. I don't think I've ever laughed that hard at any moment in the series and I can't believe I never found that this funny before. :lol:
I agree, that was a well directed scene. I like how Silver was built up as some kind of cold-blooded badass killer with a super deep voice and a boxer, but then gets taken down so effortlessly lol. It really sets the tone for the entire saga.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:42 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:08 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:45 pm
So I'm re-watching the Red Ribbon Army arc of Dragon Ball (first time subbed), and the part where Goku bitch slaps the hell out of Silver with his tail (along with the way it's framed and paced, everything) is HILARIOUS. I don't think I've ever laughed that hard at any moment in the series and I can't believe I never found that this funny before. :lol:
I agree, that was a well directed scene. I like how Silver was built up as some kind of cold-blooded badass killer with a super deep voice and a boxer, but then gets taken down so effortlessly lol. It really sets the tone for the entire saga.
Yes that's what's funny about the anime. In the manga, he's taken down pretty immediately, but the anime filler builds him up to pretty much be Ivan Drago 2.0 (the RRA arc in general has a Rocky IV/James Bond aesthetic to me lol). It makes the scene where he realizes he's got no shot against Goku that much funnier.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:06 am

Couple random semi-thread-worthy thoughts:

When do you think Toei will stop branding Super Saiyan Blue as "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" in promotion, even though the latter hasn't been used in-universe for years? That name makes you remember how conceptually weird Blue is. Going Super Saiyan on top of Super Saiyan God? :crazy:

Would anyone be down for seeing adult Gohan don the classic blue Saiyan Armour from the Namek arc? Seeing as Gohan is often forgetting his gi in Super, often going into battle in a simple green tracksuit or business suit, he might be able to squeeze into the elastic suit.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:49 am

LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:06 am
Couple random semi-thread-worthy thoughts:

When do you think Toei will stop branding Super Saiyan Blue as "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" in promotion, even though the latter hasn't been used in-universe for years? That name makes you remember how conceptually weird Blue is. Going Super Saiyan on top of Super Saiyan God? :crazy:

Would anyone be down for seeing adult Gohan don the classic blue Saiyan Armour from the Namek arc? Seeing as Gohan is often forgetting his gi in Super, often going into battle in a simple green tracksuit or business suit, he might be able to squeeze into the elastic suit.
I don't think that'll ever end. The games are going crazy with SSGSS and I think it's because it sounds snobber(is that a word?) than SSBlue. Besides, the fact that SS Red doesn't exist and SSG does, might also play a part.

And no, while I love saiyan-Namek arc armour, I greatly dislike Cell saga-onwards armour. There were some illustrations of Buu saga Goku and Gohan wearing the ROSAT armour and I never liked it. But if it were the showy armour from the saiyan saga with the shoulder pads and even the leg stuff, I'd be on that wagon.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:28 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:49 am
LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:06 am
Couple random semi-thread-worthy thoughts:

When do you think Toei will stop branding Super Saiyan Blue as "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" in promotion, even though the latter hasn't been used in-universe for years? That name makes you remember how conceptually weird Blue is. Going Super Saiyan on top of Super Saiyan God? :crazy:

[...]
I don't think that'll ever end. The games are going crazy with SSGSS and I think it's because it sounds snobber(is that a word?) than SSBlue. Besides, the fact that SS Red doesn't exist and SSG does, might also play a part.
I think Toei prefers to appear all cool and technical using "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" instead of the lowly and vulgar slang term "Super Saiyan Blue"
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:17 pm

I've been watching the old DB movies for the first time ever, the first and the third one I've just watched, and I've found them very entertaining and fun. They mix a lot of things, mash up characters and situations together, and some stuff I liked more than the original situations.

It's also a pretty "clean", perv-free take on DB. No Oolong trying to rape Bulma, General Blue dies at Tao's hand, without doing creepy stuff before. Although it still has Roshi doing the paf-paf joke to Oolong, but that's it. That's all the Roshi there is at least in M1 and M3(he's seen drooling all over some chicks, and that's it, it's funny too, not akward).

The humour is also good, I feel it's a nice take of the first arcs without the perv parts.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:42 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:17 pm
I've been watching the old DB movies for the first time ever, the first and the third one I've just watched, and I've found them very entertaining and fun. They mix a lot of things, mash up characters and situations together, and some stuff I liked more than the original situations.

It's also a pretty "clean", perv-free take on DB. No Oolong trying to rape Bulma, General Blue dies at Tao's hand, without doing creepy stuff before. Although it still has Roshi doing the paf-paf joke to Oolong, but that's it. That's all the Roshi there is at least in M1 and M3(he's seen drooling all over some chicks, and that's it, it's funny too, not akward).

The humour is also good, I feel it's a nice take of the first arcs without the perv parts.
I also really like the DB movies (well, the 3rd one I haven't gotten around to watching/re-watching just yet). I'm re-watching the entire series, from DB to Z at least, then probably GT and Super, and I've been inserting the movies roughly approximately when they were released in relation to the series. But yeah, they're fun, and I definitely prefer the toned-down pervy antics.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:29 am

I think the reason that the movies are so perv-free is because of the pacing of the films versus the series. The movies have to keep the plot flowing and the action moving throughout their runtimes, while the show can afford to slow down and have some down time, allowing for more perverted subplots.

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