Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:22 pm

PurestEvil wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:51 am
2013 obviously. The point of a revival is to make something popular again
That's why I consider 2013 the year of the revival as the franchise never really went anywhere. Sure, it wasn't as popular during 2008-2012 as it was 1999-2002 but we were still getting new merch, the yearly video games, and the DVD were still selling like hotcakes.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:35 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:22 pm
PurestEvil wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:51 am
2013 obviously. The point of a revival is to make something popular again
That's why I consider 2013 the year of the revival as the franchise never really went anywhere. Sure, it wasn't as popular during 2008-2012 as it was 1999-2002 but we were still getting new merch, the yearly video games, and the DVD were still selling like hotcakes.
Didn't you say in your original post you considered it 2002? Unless you changed your mind.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:48 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:35 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:22 pm
PurestEvil wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:51 am
2013 obviously. The point of a revival is to make something popular again
That's why I consider 2013 the year of the revival as the franchise never really went anywhere. Sure, it wasn't as popular during 2008-2012 as it was 1999-2002 but we were still getting new merch, the yearly video games, and the DVD were still selling like hotcakes.
Didn't you say in your original post you considered it 2002? Unless you changed your mind.
I didn't change my mind. I was speaking relative to that time period.

Dragon Ball was considered dead in 1998 by Japanese fans but it's popularity in the west restored interest in the franchise and it's been going strong since even if it did decline a bit in popularity during 2008-2012.

In contrast to something like Sailor Moon which hasn't been relevant for years and only recently saw a resurgence.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by Kid Buu » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:06 pm

2008. That's when we got the OVA, Kai, Evolution, even Raging Blast 2 with the remake of a previous film, so on.
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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:15 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:48 pm
]
I didn't change my mind. I was speaking relative to that time period.

Dragon Ball was considered dead in 1998 by Japanese fans but it's popularity in the west restored interest in the franchise and it's been going strong since even if it did decline a bit in popularity during 2008-2012.

In contrast to something like Sailor Moon which hasn't been relevant for years and only recently saw a resurgence.
So when you say 2002, I take it you're talking specifically about Japan?
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:15 am

Where is the evidence that Dragon Ball’s late to the party debut in the English speaking world had any impact on the franchise popularity in Japan?

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by Shintoki » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:44 am

Proto-revival period = 2008-2012

the Yo son goku returns OVA/manga
dragon ball evolution (indirectly a big cause at why super happened)
dragon ball kai
bardock OVA
hachiyack OVA
dragon ball SD

and the start of the lore inspired games' dragon ball online and heroes that are still relevant to the fandom till now.

Proper revival would ultimately start with BOG in 2013. 8)
PurestEvil wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:21 pm
You could also, y'know, become a real buddhist
DragonBallFoodie wrote:
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Isn't this technically worshipping the Monkey King?

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:05 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:15 am
Where is the evidence that Dragon Ball’s late to the party debut in the English speaking world had any impact on the franchise popularity in Japan?
Like I said, the PS2 games and Kanzenban were released because of how popular it was in the states. Before then, there wasn't any new material since 1997 besides Final Bout.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:03 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:05 am
Like I said, the PS2 games and Kanzenban were released because of how popular it was in the states. Before then, there wasn't any new material since 1997 besides Final Bout.
None of this is accurate (except I guess the "no new material since "Final Bout" remark).

We know that the PS2 game development was being done exclusively for Japan at first, and any international distribution was a complete afterthought done at the demands of the international sub-licensees (a successful one, but nonetheless an afterthought). They were purposefully going for the "nostalgia" purchases in Japan, aiming for the aging audience who now had the disposable income for more games. This comes straight from Daisuke Uchiyama's interview in the 30th anniversary Super History Book (for more, listen: podcast episode 456).

(That's a separate conversation from Atari sub-licensing the series and kicking out their own portable games stateside at this time.)

And then how can the kanzenban release, something exclusively released in Japan, be relevant to and a response to the American popularity? It wasn't -- it was part of (actually the kick-off of) that same initiative to go after the aging nostalgia audience in Japan with premium products. This was followed by the Dragon Boxes, and Uchiyama comments in the same aforementioned interview how convenient it was for the game team to release on the new systems right in that time period.
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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:55 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:03 am
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:05 am
Like I said, the PS2 games and Kanzenban were released because of how popular it was in the states. Before then, there wasn't any new material since 1997 besides Final Bout.
None of this is accurate (except I guess the "no new material since "Final Bout" remark).

We know that the PS2 game development was being done exclusively for Japan at first, and any international distribution was a complete afterthought done at the demands of the international sub-licensees (a successful one, but nonetheless an afterthought). They were purposefully going for the "nostalgia" purchases in Japan, aiming for the aging audience who now had the disposable income for more games. This comes straight from Daisuke Uchiyama's interview in the 30th anniversary Super History Book (for more, listen: podcast episode 456).

(That's a separate conversation from Atari sub-licensing the series and kicking out their own portable games stateside at this time.)

And then how can the kanzenban release, something exclusively released in Japan, be relevant to and a response to the American popularity? It wasn't -- it was part of (actually the kick-off of) that same initiative to go after the aging nostalgia audience in Japan with premium products. This was followed by the Dragon Boxes, and Uchiyama comments in the same aforementioned interview how convenient it was for the game team to release on the new systems right in that time period.
So... it was just a coincidence that Japan started getting new Dragon Ball stuff when DBZ was at the height of its popularity in the states?

But nevertheless, the PS2 games sold quite well. No dead franchise sells a million copies of one game by the end of the fiscal year.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:58 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:55 pm
VegettoEX wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:03 am
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:05 am
Like I said, the PS2 games and Kanzenban were released because of how popular it was in the states. Before then, there wasn't any new material since 1997 besides Final Bout.
None of this is accurate (except I guess the "no new material since "Final Bout" remark).

We know that the PS2 game development was being done exclusively for Japan at first, and any international distribution was a complete afterthought done at the demands of the international sub-licensees (a successful one, but nonetheless an afterthought). They were purposefully going for the "nostalgia" purchases in Japan, aiming for the aging audience who now had the disposable income for more games. This comes straight from Daisuke Uchiyama's interview in the 30th anniversary Super History Book (for more, listen: podcast episode 456).

(That's a separate conversation from Atari sub-licensing the series and kicking out their own portable games stateside at this time.)

And then how can the kanzenban release, something exclusively released in Japan, be relevant to and a response to the American popularity? It wasn't -- it was part of (actually the kick-off of) that same initiative to go after the aging nostalgia audience in Japan with premium products. This was followed by the Dragon Boxes, and Uchiyama comments in the same aforementioned interview how convenient it was for the game team to release on the new systems right in that time period.
So... it was just a coincidence that Japan started getting new Dragon Ball stuff when DBZ was at the height of its popularity in the states?

But nevertheless, the PS2 games sold quite well. No dead franchise sells a million copies of one game by the end of the fiscal year.

This just seems like Americentrism.


Like why would Japan care how its doing in the States?

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by Adamant » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:44 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:55 pm
So... it was just a coincidence that Japan started getting new Dragon Ball stuff when DBZ was at the height of its popularity in the states?
Yes. Japan was getting a whole bunch of new Fist of the North Star stuff at the same time, was that at the height of its popularity in the states too?
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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:22 pm

Japan never needed American for Dragon Ball to be popular there. I'm not sure why it would need America for a Dragon Ball resurgence, even with the series being finished.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:20 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:22 pm
Japan never needed American for Dragon Ball to be popular there. I'm not sure why it would need America for a Dragon Ball resurgence, even with the series being finished.
Japanese fans lost interest in the franchise after GT.

The phenomen of a series doing exceptionally well on foreign territory restoring interest in it isn't new. Family Guy was originally cancelled on FOX after season 3 due to low ratings but the high ratings while in syndication and high DVD sales brought it back on FOX.

The population of the US is also much denser than Japan. Toei for example was so desperate for One Piece to become a hit in North America that they sold it off to 4kids of all companies.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:25 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:20 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:22 pm
Japan never needed American for Dragon Ball to be popular there. I'm not sure why it would need America for a Dragon Ball resurgence, even with the series being finished.
Japanese fans lost interest in the franchise after GT.

The phenomen of a series doing exceptionally well on foreign territory restoring interest in it isn't new. Family Guy was originally cancelled on FOX after season 3 due to low ratings but the high ratings while in syndication and high DVD sales brought it back on FOX.

The population of the US is also much denser than Japan. Toei for example was so desperate for One Piece to become a hit in North America that they sold it off to 4kids of all companies.
Uhhhh... where is the Foreign Territory in this example?

And if Funimation made Dragon Ball into SUCH A HUGE hit that it fucking revived interest in Japan why didnt Toei give One Piece to them in the first place?
Marz wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:29 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:25 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:20 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:22 pm
Japan never needed American for Dragon Ball to be popular there. I'm not sure why it would need America for a Dragon Ball resurgence, even with the series being finished.
Japanese fans lost interest in the franchise after GT.

The phenomen of a series doing exceptionally well on foreign territory restoring interest in it isn't new. Family Guy was originally cancelled on FOX after season 3 due to low ratings but the high ratings while in syndication and high DVD sales brought it back on FOX.

The population of the US is also much denser than Japan. Toei for example was so desperate for One Piece to become a hit in North America that they sold it off to 4kids of all companies.
Uhhhh... where is the Foreign Territory in this example?

And if Funimation made Dragon Ball into SUCH A HUGE hit that it fucking revived interest in Japan why didnt Toei give One Piece to them in the first place?
Foreign means other things than a different country.

4kids beat them to the punch. They wanted other series' (Kinnikuman Nisei and another series) but Toei would only allow them to dub them if they did One Piece.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:50 pm

It is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with International popularity reviving something.
Marz wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:06 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:20 pm
[
Japanese fans lost interest in the franchise after GT.
Clearly they did not. Again, you’re just kind of forcing this Americentric narrative on Japanese audiences.
The phenomen of a series doing exceptionally well on foreign territory restoring interest in it isn't new. Family Guy was originally cancelled on FOX after season 3 due to low ratings but the high ratings while in syndication and high DVD sales brought it back on FOX.
Yes. Family Guy did better on DVD and late night Adult Swim reruns…in America so Fox revived it. How is that in any way a comparable example?
The population of the US is also much denser than Japan. Toei for example was so desperate for One Piece to become a hit in North America that they sold it off to 4kids of all companies.

Toei wanting to make money by whoring out their top selling title to the international market asap isn’t the same thing as your hypothesis that Japanese fans give a shit what Americans are into it and got interested in Dragon Ball again because the Americans were currently in love with it.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:30 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:50 pm
It is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with International popularity reviving something.
It's relevant to the fact Japanese companies do care on some level about the international popularity of their products.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:06 pm
Clearly they did not. Again, you’re just kind of forcing this Americentric narrative on Japanese audiences.
So that's why Japan hadn't gotten any new stuff for 5 years after GT ended.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Which year do you consider the start of the revival?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:35 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:30 pm

So that's why Japan hadn't gotten any new stuff for 5 years after GT ended.
VegettoEX literally explained this to you

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