Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:01 am

Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 am Reductive and nonsensical. Go touch some grass.
Image
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 am If I make a joke about the swastika being aesthetically pleasing, am I signaling support for the Nazis?
If it's the only joke you make for an hour, and you wage culture war bullshit about how it's okay to be a nazi, and don't stop talking about how cool you think nazis are, then are you really going to be surprised?
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 am Yes, Dave Chappelle, one of the most highly acclaimed comedians of all time, isn't good enough of a comedian to know the universal rule that you must always punch up. Or literally any other comedian that has punched down before.
I mean, he's also not funny.
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 am Separating the art from the artist means recognizing that the art may project different views the artist may not hold in order to illicit a variety of emotional responses, in case you're having trouble keeping up with this very basic idea.
Okay, so what evidence do you have that he doesn't believe all the things he keep saying he believes? And even if we pretend you have any, please explain how that excuses the legions of psychos claiming him as a hero, who is based and their guy and epicly owning the liberal SJWs and useful for quotes in anti-trans legislation? I'm noticing he's not exactly going off on them for being pieces of shit for agreeing with everything he says, or turning down any of their money, or indeed Netflix's money after they fire people for criticizing him.
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 am Wrong. I said multiple times it's a legitimate criticism to levy at him. Keep up.
Well no, you're constantly shutting people down for making that criticism.
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 am Being rich does not automatically exclude you from the influences of systemic racism. I didn't think you were ignorant enough to make this point.
I didn't.
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 am I've already realized you're arguing in bad faith and playing the rhetoric game, but I'll say it for the third or fourth time in case you're some daft, know-it-all 20 year old kid that nobody is claiming Chappelle's binary is legitimate.
Yes they are. It is an obvious lie to say that they aren't.
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 am See, but you are conflating sympathy with validation by claiming I'm making a moral judgment on you for not understanding his side.
What? Your morals are already shit by the views you treat as legitimate or illegitimate, why the hell would I care about your moral judgement after that? I have never cared that you think some people are bad because they're too racist to hate trans people or whatever. You're just being an asshole, saying asshole stuff and defending asshole people and beliefs, and I'm going to keep calling it out for as long as I need.
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 amI said multiple times his argument is not valid and I've said multiple times that him not understanding intersectionality is the most scathing criticism you can make of him.
And yet, here we are, with you contradicting yourself by defending it anyway.
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:42 amUnderstanding that Chappelle's views (or anyone's) are a product of his personal experience and in-group bias is a necessary component of any discussion pertaining to bigotry.
Well yeah, other rich cishet male comedians who are cut off from any proper opportunity to understand trans people are often also transphobic, did you think I wouldn't agree with that? That doesn't make their behavior not shitty. You may as well give up on believing in anything, at that point.

And no, you're not gonna get me to call it "his experience as a black man", because not only was he not always this bad, I'm not going to blame a man's race for his shitty politics.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Yuji » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:22 am

People on the right call anyone from Nick Fuentes to Ben Shapiro to Sam Harris to Noam Chomsky to the Taliban to Malcolm X to MLK to Karl Marx to whoever the fuck "based and redpilled," what kind of point does that make? That the Right, an incredibly broad umbrella of people with different often clashing beliefs, likes to engage in selective cherry picking to claim literally anyone, even otherwise progressive figures, as their own? Something they almost always succeed at because of people like you?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:36 am

Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:22 am People on the right call anyone from Nick Fuentes to Ben Shapiro to Sam Harris to Noam Chomsky to the Taliban to Malcolm X to MLK to Karl Marx to whoever the fuck "based and redpilled," what kind of point does that make?
Uh, no? Unless you're making a very wrap-around argument about MLs, they most definitely do not like Noam Chomsky, Malcom X or Karl Marx, and you just made that up.
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:22 am That the Right, an incredibly broad umbrella of people with different often clashing beliefs, likes to engage in selective cherry picking to claim literally anyone, even otherwise progressive figures, as their own?
Well no, actually, they don't. They select specific individuals they think they can get away with. I'll give you that sometimes they do it with Martin Luther King, because he's dead and not around to correct them (you know, like Dave does with his dead friend who was totally just okay with being dehumanized and not just saying that for her own safety). Most of the time they choose whichever lets them make inroads to indoctrinate others. A black comedian who hates trans people is the perfect way to introduce liberals and centrists to the idea that trans people were a product of international jewish conspiracy, a belief the TERFs Dave Chapelle keeps saying are cool and good are perfectly comfortable with.
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:22 am Something they almost always succeed at because of people like you?
Just write "this is why Trump won" already if that's what you're gonna go with. May as well run the full gambit of conservatives blaming the left for their own ideology making the world worse.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Yuji » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:41 am

I didn't say they liked leftists, I said they called them based and redpilled whenever they express a view that may slightly align with their world view. They don't like Dave Chapelle when he makes jokes about white people, now do they?

If you've reached the point of calling me a conservative then I'm at a loss for words.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:45 am

Aim wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:56 am Oh no, the black community is having issues progressing? Surely it couldn’t be because of how conservative their community generally is?
Took a while, but we finally reached the "White liberal wags his finger at the black community for 'getting in the way'" part of the evening!

As for this "punch up/punch down" thing - that's always felt like something people made up in recent years, and the reason it feels so fabricated is because the people pushing it as a hard rule aren't even consistent about it. A lot of the "punching up" the left engages in against the right is steeped in the same classism, ableism, and body shaming they engage in. Niggas will talk about the harsh economic realities of the 21st century and then turn around and make a "Mother's basement" joke like the hackiest of hacks. If those things aren't okay, they shouldn't be okay period - it shouldn't change when the target is acceptable when so many people catch strays in the process. And I don't even necessarily agree with that notion, but it's worth discussing.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Yuji » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:16 am

Jesus, I missed that post. Might as well call black people uncle Toms and get it over with.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:28 am

Just wanted to slip in and add that 'touch grass' is an ableist phrase and not one we should be using just because we want to imply something bad about someone we don't like.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Yuji » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:48 am

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:28 am Just wanted to slip in and add that 'touch grass' is an ableist phrase and not one we should be using just because we want to imply something bad about someone we don't like.
It literally just means go outside.

"B-But some people can't go outside!!"

Really?

Edit: It doesn't even imply going outside necessarily, literally just means turn off your internet for 5 minutes.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:03 am

Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:48 am
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:28 am Just wanted to slip in and add that 'touch grass' is an ableist phrase and not one we should be using just because we want to imply something bad about someone we don't like.
It literally just means go outside.

"B-But some people can't go outside!!"

Really?

Edit: It doesn't even imply going outside necessarily, literally just means turn off your internet for 5 minutes.
Various forms of disabilities prevent many people from leaving their bedrooms, let alone going outside. Using those phrases are callous attempts at owns that disregard real health conditions to score cheap, shallow pwnage points.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:16 am

Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:16 am Jesus, I missed that post. Might as well call black people uncle Toms and get it over with.
1. That's not even remotely what's being said. Christ, dude.

2. As a Black man himself, black men are historically known for having both homophobic and fairly socially conservative views. Don't believe me? Go listen to any rap song in the last...ever. Black rappers get in trouble for this shit all the time because homophobia is pretty much normalized within the black community. We got issues, which is what people are pointing out. We are not a monolith and unfortunately we are just as capable as having fucked up views about race and gender. Unless you're Candace Owens, then it's. not really about calling people uncle toms.
A lot of the "punching up" the left engages in against the right is steeped in the same classism, ableism, and body shaming they engage in.
:lolno:
If there's anything that aggravates me is the usage of "BOTH SIDES" which is the laziest thing ever. Because it's not the same thing whatsoever. It ignores context for the sake of making a self-smug response that they're all the same, which they're not. There's a difference between someone making a jab at the ruling class, and someone making a jab at a vulnerable marginalized community. It's not "just jokes" because jokes absolutely validate problematic stereotype. That something Chappelle himself understands since he walked away from his show for that very reason: fear of whether or not white people are laughing with or at Black people.

If you find it funny, you find it funny. But you should probably ask yourself "why" you find it funny. Mindless consumption, where you don't even bother to check in on what you're looking at, can lead you down some dark paths where you just assume things without even pushing back on it. A joke does not exist in a vacuum, but instead is often paired with a number of other jokes, shows, media, and whatever else you experience, which forms a narrative around certain people.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:28 am

And I also wanted to respond to this
'm well aware of the southern strategy thank you very much, but I really don't see how that's in any way similar to what Dave is doing, he's not trying to use Nixon-esque dog-whistling to turn people against trans folks or anything sinister like that, he's just being honest about his conflicted feelings is all. In the special he said it's partly due to jealousy over how well things seem to be going for the LGBTQ community compared to the black community, as studies showed that white people's interest in racial justice in 2021 evaporated compared to last year, falling to even lower levels then pre-pandemic
Great, then you should understand that it does not require "hate" to spread problematic views. That's my point. Dave being "honest" doesn't change how fucked up those views are, nor does it alter the potential damage that it could have. Particularly with that quote, he's pitting black people against the LBGTQ community as if there aren't transgender individuals who are black. That's the thing. It becomes suffer-athon where we're too busy whining about who is suffering the most when we should be focusing on intersectionality and that the rights for transgender individuals is the same as the rights for black people, which is the same for immigrants and so on and so forth.

It ties into an earlier point: Dave's Jealousy represents black men who have a problem with empathizing with other social groups. This is nothing new.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Yuji » Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:55 am

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:03 am
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:48 am
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:28 am Just wanted to slip in and add that 'touch grass' is an ableist phrase and not one we should be using just because we want to imply something bad about someone we don't like.
It literally just means go outside.

"B-But some people can't go outside!!"

Really?

Edit: It doesn't even imply going outside necessarily, literally just means turn off your internet for 5 minutes.
Various forms of disabilities prevent many people from leaving their bedrooms, let alone going outside. Using those phrases are callous attempts at owns that disregard real health conditions to score cheap, shallow pwnage points.
Writing is ableist because blind people can't read. There's nothing inherently ableist about "touch grass." It's probably more ableist to claim the only thing disabled people at home can do is browse the internet and get into discussions about Dave Chappelle on a Dragon Ball forum. Maybe you should actually go outside and touch grass.
1. That's not even remotely what's being said. Christ, dude.

2. As a Black man himself, black men are historically known for having both homophobic and fairly socially conservative views. Don't believe me? Go listen to any rap song in the last...ever. Black rappers get in trouble for this shit all the time because homophobia is pretty much normalized within the black community. We got issues, which is what people are pointing out. We are not a monolith and unfortunately we are just as capable as having fucked up views about race and gender. Unless you're Candace Owens, then it's. not really about calling people uncle toms.
Except it is. The black community has about as much of an issue with homosexuality as literally any other low-income, working class community. It's a societal and income issue, not a race or cultural one.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:01 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:16 am
A lot of the "punching up" the left engages in against the right is steeped in the same classism, ableism, and body shaming they engage in.
:lolno:
If there's anything that aggravates me is the usage of "BOTH SIDES" which is the laziest thing ever. Because it's not the same thing whatsoever. It ignores context for the sake of making a self-smug response that they're all the same, which they're not. There's a difference between someone making a jab at the ruling class, and someone making a jab at a vulnerable marginalized community. It's not "just jokes" because jokes absolutely validate problematic stereotype. That something Chappelle himself understands since he walked away from his show for that very reason: fear of whether or not white people are laughing with or at Black people.

If you find it funny, you find it funny. But you should probably ask yourself "why" you find it funny. Mindless consumption, where you don't even bother to check in on what you're looking at, can lead you down some dark paths where you just assume things without even pushing back on it. A joke does not exist in a vacuum, but instead is often paired with a number of other jokes, shows, media, and whatever else you experience, which forms a narrative around certain people.
My brother, you don't need to lecture me about the fallacy of "both sides" ehetoric - I'm well aware. But that doesn't mean it's invalid all the time. If some folks don't realize that they're engaging in certain behaviors that can be considered callous even if that wasn't the intention, then the should check themselves before policing everyone.

The "ruling class" are still people - and I say that not say their feelings have any priority, but that them being humans means the stuff you poke fun at with them are also shared with people who haven't done anything wrong. For instance, I saw a lot of left-leaning folks during election time mocking Kelly Loeffler for her lazy eye as she rambled her nonsense - so what, now it's okay to make fun of a disability, because "ruling class?" When whats-her-face was impeding Biden's transition, there was a whole lotta insults about her weight. It's okay to make virgin jokes when someone complains about women in Star Wars when there are plenty of people who have trouble with relationships due to crippling anxiety and not because they're unpleasant people (not to mention how much that enforces toxic masculinity, too).

If the rules are apparently so malleable even though other people outside of the target will be hurt too, then why are they enforced so stringently to begin with?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by KingVegetto » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:45 pm

Shaddy wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:56 am
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm No not "literally everyone" knows that, jeez talk about engaging in hyperbole :shock: . I really don't see what's so "heinous" about me merely pointing out that it's a term that not everyone knows what it really means.
If you know it's hyperbole, why are you getting upset anyway? There is no meaningful group of people frequently using the word "TERF" that does not understand what it means. Other than you, I guess.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm I think your post is far more "heinous" as you're just wildly lashing out and attacking anyone that does agree with you, which isn't really making you look very good frankly :roll:
No, actually, the person playing apologist for transphobic rhetoric is worse. You aren't entitled to others' courtesy and politeness if you're going to be an asshole.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm Not every person spends every waking minute on social media and even those that do don't know what EVERY single term means, you have to look outside of your own bubble and realize there's loads of people that don't have a fucking clue what "TERF" actually means, I highly doubt Dave knows much about British feminism.
Because "TERF" doesn't mean "British feminist", it means "transphobe who calls themself feminist". Plenty of them are not British, and zero of them are feminists.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm Comparing Dave's special to Birth of a Nation makes no sense to me at all as I don't believe it does strengthen and embolden bigots,
Well, sorry you believe obviously-false things, I guess? I don't really care what "makes sense to you".
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm especially considering Dave went out of his way to denounce NC's anti-trans bathroom bill in his special.
You realize it's not a points system, right? Like, if I feed (9) homeless people, that doesn't give me the right to punch (1) homeless person.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm Nobody is going to be emboldened by that, unless you can prove with actual studies that someone say assaulted or harassed a trans woman solely because they watched a Dave Chappelle special, I ain't buying it.
You aren't buying it either way. Exhibit A:
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm There's nothing remotely "disingeous" about pointing out that nobody was fired just for speaking out against Dave, that's just a nonsensical conspiracy theory.
The reason they came up with to say they fired her for literally was proven to be a lie. I could make it clearer and talk about each person they have fired individually, but you do not care.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm If that was true, the logical thing would to be fire EVERYONE that spoke out to send a message, just firing one person though suggests they had other problems completely unrelated to this.
They HAVE fired other people, not that you bothered to check. But even if they didn't, you're wrong, because the first person got much more public attention than the others, which separates their effect from those who did so in a lesser way or on different platforms.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm At any rate you don't work at Netflix so you have no way of knowing with 100% certainty that they were fired just for speaking out, sorry but i'm not convinced.
Well duh, nobody is trying to convince you. If you wanted them to do that, you'd have to give some indication that you were arguing in good faith and weren't completely full of shit. I'm mostly here to make sure none of the lies or misinformation you spew go unchallenged.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm Dave is not a "Transphobic shithead" just cause a few people say so.
That's true! Common mistake. He's a transphobic shithead because he professed and believes a bunch of transphobic shithead beliefs.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm The fact that you a white man are dismissing a post by a black woman isn't making you come off particularly well I must say :evil: You've greatly oversimplified what Zora actually said, now that's what I call "disingenuous"
You're a cis person trying to brand what a whole bunch of trans people of varying races are saying as racist for legitimate criticizism of a rich comedian. I don't care what minorities you try to hide behind, bad things aren't suddenly good just because a black person says them. I don't give Ricky Gervais a pass when he pulls this shit either.

But it sure makes YOU look racist, since branding opposition to transphobia as anti-black would mean you think black people are innately transphobic.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm BTW Daphne Dorman's family backed up Dave:https://www.thedailybeast.com/dave-chap ... the-closer

You really want to argue with them and call them terrible people for supporting Dave? Go right ahead, that'll be entertaining :clap:
I don't need to treat you like your shit opinion is valid just because you hide behind a dead woman to bolster it, just like I don't when conservatives use Candace Owens, Blaire White or Milo Yiannopolous to pretend they're not racist, homophobic or transphobic.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:44 pm Dave isn't like that to trans people in real life for no reason though, just when they personally harass him when he's trying to mind his own business.
"It's okay to be transphobic if a trans person is mean to you"
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:44 pm I'm well aware of the southern strategy thank you very much, but I really don't see how that's in any way similar to what Dave is doing, he's not trying to use Nixon-esque dog-whistling to turn people against trans folks or anything sinister like that, he's just being honest about his conflicted feelings is all.
And we're just being honest about his "honest feelings" being a load of hateful bullshit, but for some inexplicable reason, that gets you mad when the bullshit itself doesn't.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:44 pmIn the special he said it's partly due to jealousy over how well things seem to be going for the LGBTQ community compared to the black community, as studies showed that white people's interest in racial justice in 2021 evaporated compared to last year, falling to even lower levels then pre-pandemic:https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... tter-fades
And so the natural response to this is to attack LGBT people? Gee, that sure sounds like a guy we should be listening to. One who treats human rights as a finite resource only certain people deserve.
KingVegetto wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:44 pm You can't really prove factually that his material did harm someone though. This isn't like promoting anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories about COVID, it's just Dave airing out his own complicated opinions.
Actually, it's quite a bit like anti-vax conspiracies. Those are also "just complicated opinions", and BOTH have material harm. The only difference is you don't personally deny it like you do harm toward trans people.
If you know it's hyperbole then why make a statement like that to begin with? :? How do you know that for an absolute fact that there is "no meaningful group of people"? You're not a mind-reader so you have no possible way to prove that for sure.

I do understand what it means, i'm just saying Dave likely doesn't.

it's not "transphobic rhetoric" just because a few people like you say, not
"playing apologist" liar, i'm just saying you're mischaracterizing what was actually said.

no shit they aren't feminists, but it's not an exaggeration to say a lot of people don't know what that term actually means.

It's not "obviously false just because you say so :roll: you aren't always right about everything you know.

You're right, I don't really care what crazy conspiracy theories you believe about Netflix, you can't factually prove for an absolute stone cold fact that they made up an excuse to fire that woman, I ain't buying it.

I did "bother to check" fool, I meant people they fired that they didn't later hire back.

The only one I see who is completely full of shit and not arguing in good faith here is you.

he's not a transphobic shithead as he does not hate trans woman, you can keep mischaracterizing him all you want, won't magically make it less true.

The only person I see trying to hide behind minorities here is you, you're coming off as pretty racist yourself by dismissing that article and lying about what it actually said. Don't know where you came up with that insane troll logic that me agreeing with that article somehow means I think black folks are inherently transphobic :lol:

I don't need to treat your dogshit opinion like it's valid either and I won't, i'm not hiding behind a dead woman idiot, but you're sure as hell hiding behind them yourself.

Never said it was OK to be transphobic if a person is mean to you genius, but go ahead and keep on lying about what I actually said, it amuses me.

I get annoyed when trolls like you blatantly lie, that's all their is to it.

Dave wasn't attacking LGBTQ people, and he's certainly coming off as a lot smarter and more intelligent then you are right now with your frankly pathetic whining and concern trolling.

No it's not remotely like those conspiracies, never denied harm towards trans people fool.

Go ahead and keep spreading those lies of yours, won't make them any less true.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by KingVegetto » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:47 pm

Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:46 am If you watched the Chappelle special and came away thinking he's anything other than Pro-LGBT, then you're just a fucking idiot. He states multiple times transwomen are women if that didn't make clear his position on the issue.

The one criticism you can make of Chappelle is that his insensitive jokes come from a position of bitterness about the efficacy of the LGBT movement in comparison to the plight of black people in the United States. He makes a good point that the LGBT have made major strides only because the movement is composed mostly of white people and his resent is understandable, albeit not justifiable.
LOL well said, i don't know where the hell some of the users on here got some of their frankly insane takes from.

That's another good point that seems to have gone over the heads of most users on this thread sadly, I blame schools for not teaching Critical Thinking more, so as a result people don't back up their opinions particularly well, they think just saying "you're wrong cause I said so!" is enough.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by KingVegetto » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:50 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:30 am There's been a record number of anti-trans bills enacted in 2021. There's also been a record number of murders of trans people. https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-vio ... ty-in-2021

Call me a piece of shit for not wanting to subject myself to 72 minutes of unfunny and unsympathetic bullshit from a cis man. I already have to pretend to laugh and smile when cis men think they're being funny in my daily life, I don't want to have to do it for a millionaire who apparently ghosted his supposed good trans friend whom he also treated like shit. https://twitter.com/two_n_minus_one/sta ... ClfOg&s=19


So, yeah, I'm going to just say: cis people need to learn about trans people before you talk about us because holy shit, we learn to protect our safety through placating like motherfuckers. That trans friend who says "Yeah, no, it's fine" when you say or do something hurtful? Bitch is lyin' out their ass, especially if they're trying extra hard to make *you* feel better about *your* fuck up. We're all suffering from trauma and nearly constantly in survival mode. Meeting all of your needs even if it exhausts us is the only way we'll be able to feel a little more safe.

Anyway, glad to see Dragon Ball fans hate trans women as much as they do cis women. Almost gives me gender euphoria!
I don't hate trans woman, I just don't believe Dave does either and i'm not buying that story about him ghosting Daphne. I really don't think you should be speaking for ALL trans people personally, you can't expect them all to agree with everything you say.

I don't blame you for not wanting to watch the special(though I do think you would be pleasantly surprised by it)but i'm not going to back down on saying that Dave isn't transphobic, because I really don't believe he is.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by KingVegetto » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:01 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:28 am And I also wanted to respond to this
'm well aware of the southern strategy thank you very much, but I really don't see how that's in any way similar to what Dave is doing, he's not trying to use Nixon-esque dog-whistling to turn people against trans folks or anything sinister like that, he's just being honest about his conflicted feelings is all. In the special he said it's partly due to jealousy over how well things seem to be going for the LGBTQ community compared to the black community, as studies showed that white people's interest in racial justice in 2021 evaporated compared to last year, falling to even lower levels then pre-pandemic
Great, then you should understand that it does not require "hate" to spread problematic views. That's my point. Dave being "honest" doesn't change how fucked up those views are, nor does it alter the potential damage that it could have. Particularly with that quote, he's pitting black people against the LBGTQ community as if there aren't transgender individuals who are black. That's the thing. It becomes suffer-athon where we're too busy whining about who is suffering the most when we should be focusing on intersectionality and that the rights for transgender individuals is the same as the rights for black people, which is the same for immigrants and so on and so forth.

It ties into an earlier point: Dave's Jealousy represents black men who have a problem with empathizing with other social groups. This is nothing new.
I don't really see what's so fucked up about Dave admitting he wishes the black community had made the same progress the LGBTQ community has over the past few years, he's not trying to pit them against one another, he's just pointing out that the majority of the LGBTQ movement is white(which it is)and that some of them like to hide behind their whiteness whenever racial politics comes up, and i've witnessed that myself.

Hell in the special Dave argues that Caitlyn Jenner should not have been voted "Woman of the year" just for transitioning and I agree, there were were far more deserving candidates that should've won that year and Caitlyn has made it very clear she does not give a flying fuck about the LGBTQ community, she only cares about herself.

Dave wasn't arguing about who suffered more, he just wishes more people in the community would care about black-specific issues and that's a valid POV to have.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:11 pm

Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:55 am
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:03 am
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:48 am



The black community has about as much of an issue with homosexuality as literally any other low-income, working class community. It's a societal and income issue, not a race or cultural one.
It's almost as if it is one in the same and you can't take one without the other. Because society and income absolutely inform race and culture. That doesn't dismiss my point.
The "ruling class" are still people - and I say that not say their feelings have any priority, but that them being humans means the stuff you poke fun at with them are also shared with people who haven't done anything wrong.
This is where context sets in. You're not wrong, that people can end up doing the very thing they claim to be against, that happens and I'm not dismissing that. But let's look at Sarah Sanders, Trump's ex-Press Secretary, a woman who actively abetted in Trumps lies throughout his presidency. A woman who was routinely mocked for heo cross eyed looks. Do I believe that it would be similar to a comedian making a joke about how "cross eyed women" in general are ugly? No? Because the target is not women in general--It's Sarah Sanders. That's the difference Again: What's the context of the joke? who is the intended target? Why am I laughing? These are all things that are important to consider when talking about comedy. The Why of it all.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:25 pm

KingVegetto wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:01 pm
kemuri07 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:28 am And I also wanted to respond to this
'm well aware of the southern strategy thank you very much, but I really don't see how that's in any way similar to what Dave is doing, he's not trying to use Nixon-esque dog-whistling to turn people against trans folks or anything sinister like that, he's just being honest about his conflicted feelings is all. In the special he said it's partly due to jealousy over how well things seem to be going for the LGBTQ community compared to the black community, as studies showed that white people's interest in racial justice in 2021 evaporated compared to last year, falling to even lower levels then pre-pandemic
Great, then you should understand that it does not require "hate" to spread problematic views. That's my point. Dave being "honest" doesn't change how fucked up those views are, nor does it alter the potential damage that it could have. Particularly with that quote, he's pitting black people against the LBGTQ community as if there aren't transgender individuals who are black. That's the thing. It becomes suffer-athon where we're too busy whining about who is suffering the most when we should be focusing on intersectionality and that the rights for transgender individuals is the same as the rights for black people, which is the same for immigrants and so on and so forth.

It ties into an earlier point: Dave's Jealousy represents black men who have a problem with empathizing with other social groups. This is nothing new.

Dave wasn't arguing about who suffered more, he just wishes more people in the community would care about black-specific issues and that's a valid POV to have.
1. That's exactly what he's arguing though. Black people suffer more and therefore deserve more focus. Which again...there are black people who are also members of the LBGTQ and Trans community so his point is, well, pointless. By making these two communities as separate, instead of recognizing that they are one in the same and have common goals, he is absolutely pitting them against one another. It delegitimizes the LBGTQ movement by claiming that it's mostly white (which isn't even remotely true) in the same way that conservatives attempt to delegitimize BLM by suggesting that only elitist white people actually care about social justice. It's nonsense that has no real root in reality.

2. So the whole BLM thing just didn't happen, then? Chapelle wasn't literally given money to host his own special about the George Floyd murder? None of what he says makes a lick of sense the moment you even think about. And whatever point that he was making that might have a kernel of truth gets lost in his clear problems with the Trans community.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:27 pm

KingVegetto wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:47 pm
Yuji wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:46 am If you watched the Chappelle special and came away thinking he's anything other than Pro-LGBT, then you're just a fucking idiot. He states multiple times transwomen are women if that didn't make clear his position on the issue.

The one criticism you can make of Chappelle is that his insensitive jokes come from a position of bitterness about the efficacy of the LGBT movement in comparison to the plight of black people in the United States. He makes a good point that the LGBT have made major strides only because the movement is composed mostly of white people and his resent is understandable, albeit not justifiable.
LOL well said, i don't know where the hell some of the users on here got some of their frankly insane takes from.

That's another good point that seems to have gone over the heads of most users on this thread sadly, I blame schools for not teaching Critical Thinking more, so as a result people don't back up their opinions particularly well, they think just saying "you're wrong cause I said so!" is enough.
Dude..you literally just called someone a troll for disagreeing with you.

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