How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by super michael » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:46 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:30 pm And the vibes of the gif I posted clearly scream "we makeout between dating girls" so I don't see the issue here.
That gif that you posted actually happens in the manga also, wanted to mention incase someone ask if that was in the manga.
I think they are cool.

Friends can do secret handshakes, moves, etc, doesn't mean they are dating. They can be playful and that wouldn't mean dating.
We have DBS that shows us who they are interested, in EOZ we don't have any statement that they date each other.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:59 pm

super michael wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:46 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:30 pm And the vibes of the gif I posted clearly scream "we makeout between dating girls" so I don't see the issue here.
That gif that you posted actually happens in the manga also, just wanted to mention incase someone ask if that was in the manga.
I think they are cool.

Friends can do secret handshakes, moves, etc, doesn't mean they are dating. They can be playful and that wouldn't mean dating.
We have DBS that shows us who they are interested, in EOZ we don't have any statement that they date each other.
I do have platonic relationships, you don't need to explain to me that they exist. In fact, most of my relationships are platonic!

"Bros can just be bros!"

Yes, and in this case these bros are also each other's hoes.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:31 pm

Would Jiren being gay change his character or anything? Would this make him a better character? Would knowing he's gay make you like him more?

Personally, it wouldn't affect me beyond wondering if this ploy to appeal to certain demos and such. Because that what a lot of this sort of thing is today. Very few media can have a character be a thing without it becoming a large defining part of their character. If adding a black character means they have to act "black", just make them white and boring so we don't have to be bothered with that.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:16 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:31 pm Would Jiren being gay change his character or anything? Would this make him a better character? Would knowing he's gay make you like him more?

Personally, it wouldn't affect me beyond wondering if this ploy to appeal to certain demos and such. Because that what a lot of this sort of thing is today. Very few media can have a character be a thing without it becoming a large defining part of their character. If adding a black character means they have to act "black", just make them white and boring so we don't have to be bothered with that.
It would totally change things if you let it. There is plenty of character and story to mine out of it if you tried.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:44 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:31 pm Would Jiren being gay change his character or anything? Would this make him a better character? Would knowing he's gay make you like him more?

Personally, it wouldn't affect me beyond wondering if this ploy to appeal to certain demos and such. Because that what a lot of this sort of thing is today. Very few media can have a character be a thing without it becoming a large defining part of their character. If adding a black character means they have to act "black", just make them white and boring so we don't have to be bothered with that.
Jiren being gay--like for most characters in the Dragon Ball universe--wouldn't change a thing. I don't seem to recall a huge emphasis on his sexual preference. It's not like he was trying to develop a relationship with any female characters. He mentioned his family... so, that would look different in his little flashback. Otherwise, totally unaffected.

This stuff is very trivial in a series like Dragon Ball. Romantic relationships aren't fleshed out and aren't a focal point of the story. The only real romance that we've seen were Yamucha and Bulma, a hint of Vegeta and Bulma (basically as a vehicle to get to Trunks, to be honest), and Gohan and Videl. And none of those are exactly Jack and Rose having a whirlwind on the Titanic.

The romance that got the most emphasis was Gohan and Videl, but even that was presented more like, "Oh, yeah, and Gohan likes this girl." That certainly wasn't the focus of the story. Nor was it this long, drawn out masterpiece. It just kind of happened.

So, in this series, it doesn't really matter who's gay, heterosexual, bisexual, etc. So instead of trying to grab a girl's butt, Roshi would try to grab a guy's butt. So instead of being shy around girls, Yamucha would be shy around guys. So instead of getting friendly with Mr. Satan's daughter, Gohan would get friendly with Mr. Satan's son. So instead of Bulma rolling her eyes any Vegeta's training, it would be a guy doing it.

There are no deep romantic connections presented to us between any characters. If anything, it seems like many relationships are vehicles to produce some next of kin. And sure, while we can go into the science of how that could be done without a heterosexual relationship, I think it would be a little out of character for Goku and Vegeta to go to a fertility clinic to have a kid. It's more plausible to imagine for the earthlings (the Saiyan kids included).

And honestly, I'm not mad at Dragon Ball for being so void of romantic relationships. I don't mind it at all. There is so much other media out there that puts so much focus on these things, that it's kind of refreshing to me. And to be honest, 1) I don't think that I'd enjoy a Toriyama love story, and 2) the lack of these stories opens the door for head-canon (if you're into that).

So, if you want to believe that Goten and Trunks had a thing going on, then go for it.

But ultimately, this means that there's nearly no impact on the story if any of the characters were non-heterosexual.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:07 am

TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:44 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:31 pm Would Jiren being gay change his character or anything? Would this make him a better character? Would knowing he's gay make you like him more?

Personally, it wouldn't affect me beyond wondering if this ploy to appeal to certain demos and such. Because that what a lot of this sort of thing is today. Very few media can have a character be a thing without it becoming a large defining part of their character. If adding a black character means they have to act "black", just make them white and boring so we don't have to be bothered with that.
Jiren being gay--like for most characters in the Dragon Ball universe--wouldn't change a thing. I don't seem to recall a huge emphasis on his sexual preference. It's not like he was trying to develop a relationship with any female characters. He mentioned his family... so, that would look different in his little flashback. Otherwise, totally unaffected.

This stuff is very trivial in a series like Dragon Ball. Romantic relationships aren't fleshed out and aren't a focal point of the story. The only real romance that we've seen were Yamucha and Bulma, a hint of Vegeta and Bulma (basically as a vehicle to get to Trunks, to be honest), and Gohan and Videl. And none of those are exactly Jack and Rose having a whirlwind on the Titanic.

The romance that got the most emphasis was Gohan and Videl, but even that was presented more like, "Oh, yeah, and Gohan likes this girl." That certainly wasn't the focus of the story. Nor was it this long, drawn out masterpiece. It just kind of happened.

So, in this series, it doesn't really matter who's gay, heterosexual, bisexual, etc. So instead of trying to grab a girl's butt, Roshi would try to grab a guy's butt. So instead of being shy around girls, Yamucha would be shy around guys. So instead of getting friendly with Mr. Satan's daughter, Gohan would get friendly with Mr. Satan's son. So instead of Bulma rolling her eyes any Vegeta's training, it would be a guy doing it.

There are no deep romantic connections presented to us between any characters. If anything, it seems like many relationships are vehicles to produce some next of kin. And sure, while we can go into the science of how that could be done without a heterosexual relationship, I think it would be a little out of character for Goku and Vegeta to go to a fertility clinic to have a kid. It's more plausible to imagine for the earthlings (the Saiyan kids included).

And honestly, I'm not mad at Dragon Ball for being so void of romantic relationships. I don't mind it at all. There is so much other media out there that puts so much focus on these things, that it's kind of refreshing to me. And to be honest, 1) I don't think that I'd enjoy a Toriyama love story, and 2) the lack of these stories opens the door for head-canon (if you're into that).

So, if you want to believe that Goten and Trunks had a thing going on, then go for it.

But ultimately, this means that there's nearly no impact on the story if any of the characters were non-heterosexual.
Probably the best written and I completely agree.
Sometimes, it's hard for me to thread well among some topics and themes, because nowadays discussions can be volatile and you have to really think about your wording to get across and not anger or hurt some parties, even if that wasn't your intention.
Also I am really not a fan of labeling. It's the kind of a thing that doesn't really help anyone in the end and makes the people more bitter and alienated.

I am completely for people going wild with headcanons and for fantasizing, plus there is load of stories that cater to these views and do it far more better than Dragon Ball ever could, because simply, the series is not like that and TheGreatness25 wrote that excellently.
One of my fav characters is Batwoman for example (and not the TV show, EVER! In comic.) and her New 52 launch was awesome. There it is part of the character's DNA, but I read/watch Dragon Ball purely for the fighting.

Sure that Goten and Trunks are not gay based on facts, but I don't see a problem with people hinting at it and make their fantasy about it.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:37 am

Coming into a thread about queerness and expecting queer people to not put up with queerphobia is more than a little silly.

Fun fact about Batwoman: her wedding to Maggie Sawyer was randomly canceled by an editorial staff known for homophobia and sexism. Fans are still mad about that nonsense for good reason.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Aim » Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:27 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:39 am
Aim wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:02 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 am

Except when it is. Which is all the time.
What how
Bulma goes crazy over men and says she can't contol herself when she sees a hot guy

Oolong says he hates men (and penis) and only likes girls

Roshi constantly hits on and sexually harrasses women. He also request Goku and Kuririn find him a pichi pichi girl

Lanfang tries to distract Nam with her body

Kuririn tempts Roshi to train him with skin mags. He also laments about wanting to get married. He also cant deactivate 18 because she kissed him

Chi Chi decides since Goku kicked her in the vagina she has no choice but to be his wife


Bulma and Kuririn determine General Blue is gay because he was grossed out by her throwing herself at him.


Goku accidentally finds Murasaki's porn collection

Goku convinces Old Kaioshin to power up Gohan by promising him he can feel up Bulma.



I don't get where you and another user think sexuality just isn't a thing in Dragon Ball. It very much is.
These all happened quite a long time ago, Super has been more divorced from it I think with the exception of Roshi being a borderline rapist.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:00 am

Aim wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:27 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:39 am
Aim wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:02 am

What how
Bulma goes crazy over men and says she can't contol herself when she sees a hot guy

Oolong says he hates men (and penis) and only likes girls

Roshi constantly hits on and sexually harrasses women. He also request Goku and Kuririn find him a pichi pichi girl

Lanfang tries to distract Nam with her body

Kuririn tempts Roshi to train him with skin mags. He also laments about wanting to get married. He also cant deactivate 18 because she kissed him

Chi Chi decides since Goku kicked her in the vagina she has no choice but to be his wife


Bulma and Kuririn determine General Blue is gay because he was grossed out by her throwing herself at him.


Goku accidentally finds Murasaki's porn collection

Goku convinces Old Kaioshin to power up Gohan by promising him he can feel up Bulma.



I don't get where you and another user think sexuality just isn't a thing in Dragon Ball. It very much is.
These all happened quite a long time ago, Super has been more divorced from it I think with the exception of Roshi being a borderline rapist.
Except for Trunks crush on Mai, Bulma trying to desperately seduce Zamasu, Future Trunks and Future Mai's relationship, Gohan and Videl having a kid, Barry Kahn trying to come onto Videl, Kahn trying to make Gohan look like an adulter, Vegeta getting Bulma pregnant, Roshi wanting to buy dirty dvds.

I don't know why would you would move the goalpost and still be wrong.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:07 am

Roushi trying to sexually assault a group of Galactic Prisoners consisting of three women named Miza, Iwaza and Kikaza and then being seemingly offended when they merge together into a fat woman is, like, four separate cases of 'sexuality' coming from Roushi. This is to say nothing of just random sexual assault being played for laughs in a kids' comic.
Last edited by JulieYBM on Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:05 am

JulieYBM wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:07 am Roushi trying to sexually assault a group of Galactic Prisoners consisting of three women named Miza, Iwaza and Kikaza and then being seemingly offended when they merge together into a fat woman is, like, four separate cases of sexuality coming from Roushi. This is to say nothing of just random sexual assault being played for laughs in a kids' comic.
Say wha...?!!
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:27 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:05 am
JulieYBM wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:07 am Roushi trying to sexually assault a group of Galactic Prisoners consisting of three women named Miza, Iwaza and Kikaza and then being seemingly offended when they merge together into a fat woman is, like, four separate cases of sexuality coming from Roushi. This is to say nothing of just random sexual assault being played for laughs in a kids' comic.
Say wha...?!!
Dragon Ball Super Chapter #57:
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:06 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:27 am
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:05 am
JulieYBM wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:07 am Roushi trying to sexually assault a group of Galactic Prisoners consisting of three women named Miza, Iwaza and Kikaza and then being seemingly offended when they merge together into a fat woman is, like, four separate cases of sexuality coming from Roushi. This is to say nothing of just random sexual assault being played for laughs in a kids' comic.
Say wha...?!!
Dragon Ball Super Chapter #57:
DBS need to chill with that shit. I know Roshi was always a pervert but he wasn't that goddamn thirsty.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Ten na nGael » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:13 pm

If "X anime character were gay", in a manner that was non-stereotyping, you might see it expressed in quite a different way from Western media.

For example one of the major problems Japanese conservatives in Shinto organisations have with homosexuality is that they fear the resulting "family unit" wouldn't have a common surname. So you might see things like it being emphasised that the gay hero can still have a proper single name family unit or similar points specific to Japanese culture

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DiloVortexx » Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:16 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:27 am
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:05 am
JulieYBM wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:07 am Roushi trying to sexually assault a group of Galactic Prisoners consisting of three women named Miza, Iwaza and Kikaza and then being seemingly offended when they merge together into a fat woman is, like, four separate cases of sexuality coming from Roushi. This is to say nothing of just random sexual assault being played for laughs in a kids' comic.
Say wha...?!!
Dragon Ball Super Chapter #57:
Image
lord and i thought they were done with making roshi a creeper for a bit aough.... on the other hand, their designs non-fused and fused are super cute (theres the pan/gay in me talking lol) i just wish they werent fatphobic abt it

also @ the take of "oh well goten and trunks arent gay at all they're 100% straight" thats popping up a bit in this thread rn..
please remember that these exist ^^"
i mean yes they were most likely intended to be cishet but people are allowed to see their relationship through a queer lens, even if its just their sexualities as a whole being headcanoned as bi or pan

and i mean as a person in said community their relationship has always given me those Vibes hsdjfjdhfdj
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dilo is pronounced dye - low, kareol is pronounced kah - rey - ohl (like bowl) and zhadio is pronounced zah - dee - ohh for those who may have trouble pronouncing my names! ^^")

autistic digital artist who likes drawing creatures and monsters and also they really like dragon ball lol (i may post dragon ball related oc art as well.. cuz i've done that a few times)
since i'm used to the lgbtq+ focused side of the fandom, those are usually the kind of topics youll see me post in if any of those pop up : o bc i have a pretty queer reading of the series ^^"

oh, you don't know what neopronouns are all about? well, have a resource for that!!
want to know how to use tone indicators to help out neurodivergent people to understand your words better? click here!

if you see me randomly type a bunch of letters like SDHFJFJGHD, thats just a thing in the lgbtq+ community called keysmashing which is usually used to show someone is laughing (either nervously or bluntly and so on and so forth)
if you need any help learning about lgbtq+ terms and such, feel free to ask! i will try my best to help out ^^

goten and trunks are gay and trans ♥

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:19 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:06 pmDBS need to chill with that shit. I know Roshi was always a pervert but he wasn't that goddamn thirsty.
Yes he was. It's a joke, it's funny.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DiloVortexx » Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:29 am

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:19 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:06 pmDBS need to chill with that shit. I know Roshi was always a pervert but he wasn't that goddamn thirsty.
Yes he was. It's a joke, it's funny.
look i know humour is subjective but uhhh.. i dont think its appropiate (nor funny to me anyway) still to have an old man thirsting over three women in a really creepy way and then he reacts in a fatphobic way upon seeing them fuse in whats supposed to be a show targeted at younger audiences in japan? yeah, idk abt that one chief
Dilo/Volt/Kareol/Zhadio -- Demiromantic pansexual demiboy (transmasc non-binary; goes by he/him, they/them, xe/xem/xyrs and raptorself pronouns!! to see more of my preferences regarding gender, sexuality and pronouns, click here!

dilo is pronounced dye - low, kareol is pronounced kah - rey - ohl (like bowl) and zhadio is pronounced zah - dee - ohh for those who may have trouble pronouncing my names! ^^")

autistic digital artist who likes drawing creatures and monsters and also they really like dragon ball lol (i may post dragon ball related oc art as well.. cuz i've done that a few times)
since i'm used to the lgbtq+ focused side of the fandom, those are usually the kind of topics youll see me post in if any of those pop up : o bc i have a pretty queer reading of the series ^^"

oh, you don't know what neopronouns are all about? well, have a resource for that!!
want to know how to use tone indicators to help out neurodivergent people to understand your words better? click here!

if you see me randomly type a bunch of letters like SDHFJFJGHD, thats just a thing in the lgbtq+ community called keysmashing which is usually used to show someone is laughing (either nervously or bluntly and so on and so forth)
if you need any help learning about lgbtq+ terms and such, feel free to ask! i will try my best to help out ^^

goten and trunks are gay and trans ♥

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:09 am

Of course it's not appropriate that's the joke. Why do you think Krillin has that reaction.

He's there to defend the Earth, three attractive criminals show up and Roshi is distracted by them because of their looks. Then he's repulsed when they turn into a fat ugly monstrosity.

It's just a simple straight forward joke.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:25 am

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:09 am Of course it's not appropriate that's the joke. Why do you think Krillin has that reaction.

He's there to defend the Earth, three attractive criminals show up and Roshi is distracted by them because of their looks. Then he's repulsed when they turn into a fat ugly monstrosity.

It's just a simple straight forward joke.
That's not funny, though. That's just saying "haha fat women are ugly" and not "haha fatphobes are weird losers everyone should treat with derision." The Muten Roushi isn't reprimanded for being a scumbag, no message is sent to the child audience to teach them that treating fat people poorly or treating women like they're objects for mens' desires is bad.

It's shitty and offensive writing.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:31 am

Yeah I don't really think they care about hurting a miniscule amount of readers feelings who aren't able to read a comic without being able to take a joke.

It fused and became a 30 foot tall, 10 foot wide being with a ugly face that resembles Yunba. It's not cute, it's hideous. Before they weren't. That was the joke.

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