Is what FUNimation did so horrible?

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:08 pm

What I'm referring to by the title is the way they colors looked in the Season Sets. We've all villainized FUNi so much for tweeking the colors and the brightness. But in reality, what they did is not so uncommon. Notice that Disney does similar stuff when remastering their movies. Attempting to make older film look a bit more modern through color brightness and saturation isn't so uncommon.

One of the highlights of the DBOX footage is the fact that we get a crisp and clean remaster of DragonBall. While at the same time preserving the look of an older, classic series.

But I pose this question. If FUNi's remastering process didn't have its flaws and they kept it at the proper 4:3 format. Would the Season Sets be so horrid? If all that changed was the color pallet in an attempt to make the series look newer. Would it have been so bad? It's not like this is uncommon in the film world.

I've got to admit, the picture on the Season Sets does look pretty nice in certain parts.

It's kind of funny when you think about it. The DBOX will now become my main way of viewing DragonBall. But I will still keep the Season Sets for the Dub Music Track. In other words, during the times I watch the Season Sets I'll be watching footage that is attempted to be made to look more modern. While listening to more modern sounding music in the background. In a modern TV aspect ratio.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:13 pm

Well, FUNimation's choices were dissapointing at the time (and, assuming the Orange Bricks remain in print, will continue to be). I don't think the series looks at all 'modern', my personal choice of words would be "terribly unprofessional."

I don't know how anyone could call those sets 'modern animation-esque', but alas we've the DBox now so I'd assume not to think much about the Orange Bricks).

Post by **VegettoEX** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:20 pm

It wasn't *just* the color alterations. It wasn't *just* the cropping. It wasn't *just* the marketing. It was a combination of all of these things and so much more. It was the first all-in-house DBZ release that genuinely had more than just the ONE obligatory major issue with it that presented it from being acceptable.

Back when the "Ultimate Uncut Editions" were coming out, I was so happy that they were finally just PUTTING OUT THE SHOW so we could JUST SEE IT AS-IS. I think a lot of people felt the same way. They did the best with what they had, rather than going above and beyond into insanity territory.

And for the record, 16:9 (or really 21:9 and all the other nonsense) was originally created for the sole purpose of manufacturing something that could be played in theaters that could not be accurately duplicated at home (fear of in-home televisions driving them to change their business model).

Hao_Kaiser · Post by **Hao_Kaiser** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:24 pm

I'll be totally honest and say that I didn't think the season sets actually looked all that bad (and in some instances, actually looked a bit better than the DragonBox, to me, through still frame comparisons - of course, seeing the two in motion is a different story), aside from some early brightness and invisible line hangups.

The main issue I have with the season sets is the fact that they're predicated on absolute lies and misdirection. I think that's where FUNi went wrong.

And now that we're getting a fantastic release in the form of the DragonBoxes, where they're actually owning up to their past mistakes, I'm willing to look past the whole season set debacle.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:29 pm

Disney knows what they're doing, at least.

Brad Redfield · Post by **Brad Redfield** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:51 pm

Castor Troy wrote:Disney knows what they're doing, at least.

Exactly.

Disney has a high-quality staff working on their stuff.

Funimation got some local company to do it on the cheap.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:01 pm

Remastering in itself isn't a problem. The GT sets looked good and, except for some zooming, DB doesn't look bad, either. Definitely not Dragonbox quality, but it doesn't have to be when you're giving me 30 to 40 episodes for $25 to $35. It just has to be presentable.

If the Orange Bricks had turned out like the Green or Blue Bricks then I'd have had no problem whatsoever.

It doesn't matter to me now, though. Dragonbox Z is being released and now I don't have to import anymore (expensive!) or buy the Orange Bricks.

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:19 pm

Disney knows what they're doing, at least.

Without getting too far off topic, I was just thinking. If they could make a 50 year old movie look almost new, imagine what they could do with a 20 year old show!

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:24 pm

Tanooki Kuribo wrote:
Disney knows what they're doing, at least.
Without getting too far off topic, I was just thinking. If they could make a 50 year old movie look almost new, imagine what they could do with a 20 year old show!

Remember that, like Toei with the Dragonbox, Disney has access to their own high-quality film masters for their projects. FUNimation had access to the crap film masters that they got from Toei back when they were a new company with no money.

GizmoKSX · Post by **GizmoKSX** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:31 pm

Just remastering is one thing, but whenever substantial changes are made, I like knowing that the creators (animators, director, etc.) had some input. Here, we're talking about color correction. Take Watchmen as an example. As of a few years ago, printings of the collected editions feature a new coloring job that was done by Dave Gibbons, the original colorist. Also, the special edition of Se7en on DVD features color correction approved by director David Fincher. In both of those cases, we knew that changes were being made to reflect the creators' preferences, to overcome limitations in their original presentations.

That was not the case when Funi oversaturated/blurred/cropped Dragon Ball Z. It was yet another attempt to "reversion" the material and sell it to a new audience (insert infamous nine-year-old comments...although nine-ear-olds today are potentially savvy enough to read up on all the lurid details on site such as this one). It's similar to colorizing old black-and-white movies. In trying to modernize it, it turns it into a different product altogether. In and of itself, whether it's enjoyable or not is up to the viewer. (If you like the oversaturated colors and smooth look, that's fine.) However, that does not make it an acceptable substitute for the original visionary's art.

What's been bothering many American fans for so long is that we feared we would never get to see the complete series as originally intended. Until the Funi Boxes, we weren't able to legally and affordably obtain it with the combination of subtitles, proper visual presentation, and completeness. To have had only the season sets on our shelves for posterity was settling for something less-than-acceptable, and outright infuriating when falsely marketed with the "as it was meant to be seen" tagline. It's reminiscent of the days when original aspect ratio films were hard to find on VHS. If you hated the "black bars," whatever, but those of us who wanted to see the director and cinematographer's vision were out of luck for the sake of pandering to the uninformed masses. ("Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.")

Jon Jon · Post by **Jon Jon** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:35 pm

Hao_Kaiser wrote:I'll be totally honest and say that I didn't think the season sets actually looked all that bad (and in some instances, actually looked a bit better than the DragonBox, to me, through still frame comparisons - of course, seeing the two in motion is a different story), aside from some early brightness and invisible line hangups.

The main issue I have with the season sets is the fact that they're predicated on absolute lies and misdirection. I think that's where FUNi went wrong.

And now that we're getting a fantastic release in the form of the DragonBoxes, where they're actually owning up to their past mistakes, I'm willing to look past the whole season set debacle.

It's not just videophiles who notice what is wrong with the season sets. I'm sorry, but when I'm watching the Piccolo and Android 17 fight and Piccolo's face practically disappears due to the shaking and EVERYONE in the room watching it all notice and go "WTF!", then yeah, clearly it's a terrible job.

Hao_Kaiser · Post by **Hao_Kaiser** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:58 pm

Jon Jon wrote:
Hao_Kaiser wrote:I'll be totally honest and say that I didn't think the season sets actually looked all that bad (and in some instances, actually looked a bit better than the DragonBox, to me, through still frame comparisons - of course, seeing the two in motion is a different story), aside from some early brightness and invisible line hangups.

The main issue I have with the season sets is the fact that they're predicated on absolute lies and misdirection. I think that's where FUNi went wrong.

And now that we're getting a fantastic release in the form of the DragonBoxes, where they're actually owning up to their past mistakes, I'm willing to look past the whole season set debacle.
It's not just videophiles who notice what is wrong with the season sets. I'm sorry, but when I'm watching the Piccolo and Android 17 fight and Piccolo's face practically disappears due to the shaking and EVERYONE in the room watching it all notice and go "WTF!", then yeah, clearly it's a terrible job.

I'm not saying otherwise. In motion, it does tend to look awful, but there are instances of still shots that look pretty okay. :/

Izlude · Post by **Izlude** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:11 pm

I'll be honest here... I bought a few of the "Remastered" DragonBall Z bricks, just because Wal-Mart was selling them for like 20 bucks each, which was awesomesauce. So many episodes for so cheap, it's ridiculous to not pass up such an offer compared to the old days of paying 25 bucks for single disc dvd's that contained 3 episodes each.

I'm seeing those deals on the new DragonBox for like 50 bucks compared to the 80 or so dollar retail price, and it looks tempting... although I think I'll just hold off for awhile. I really hate buying the same episodes over and over again, which is like the whole dilemma of the DragonBall Z fanbase, seriously. We never had consistency with the releases, and we are always getting dicked around in one way or another, whether it's dvd's or boxsets, manga, etc.

The remastered sets didn't bother me much at all so much with the video qualities, since I care more about the number of episodes we are getting above all else (The number of VHS/DvD releases I bought over the years for 25-30 bucks each that had 3 episodes each on them... grrrr.) But now that we have the DragonBox out finally... not much point in getting the remastered sets, unless you really wanna cheap out.

theoriginalbilis · Post by **theoriginalbilis** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:28 pm

I was disappointed about the cropping when I watched my first Season Set. (I was actually more irritated with the blurring/line disappearing issue.) But nowadays it doesn't bother me.

In all honesty, while I'm happy with the Dragon Boxes coming out, as long as the show gets into peoples' hands and makes them into DragonBall fans, I don't mind if people buy the Z Season Sets.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:28 pm

I didn't think the remastered sets were bad until I actually watched them.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:57 pm

I think it's a huge mistake to count on a licensor to remaster anything. They're not really in the animation business. They're in the licensing business. Their job is to get those shows from Japan and put them on the shelf for the folks in whatever country they're working from.

The only decent remaster I've ever seen done by a licensor is AnimeEigo's Super Dimensional Fortress Macross boxset a few years back, but the only reason I got that one was to have all of that series.

nathantheguitarist · Post by **nathantheguitarist** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:19 pm

Tanooki Kuribo wrote:
Disney knows what they're doing, at least.
Without getting too far off topic, I was just thinking. If they could make a 50 year old movie look almost new, imagine what they could do with a 20 year old show!

Which is why I'm so damned excited for a remastered, rebroadcast of Might Morphin Power Rangers.

Sure Disney can't do a new series half as good as the originals, but they have the power to make the originals look badass.

As for Z... well, my sig kinda covers that.

Why worry about the Seasons Sets anymore? They're there, they're done, and in my mind, they don't exist anymore. We have the Dragon Box coming to us now, in big pretty boxes, in nice 4:3. So let's just forget the whole "Funimation crapped out orange bricks, shrinkwrapped 'em, and told us that it was what we wanted" thing, and just all go buy Dragon Boxes!

And if you're a hardcore dub fan... well, I guess you could buy the bricks, buy the Dragon Boxes, rip the audio, and make your own DVD's... buuut, I dunno, that's quite an inconvenient project. If anything, I'd just go after the singles if I was really concerned about the old music and 4:3 video. Meh...

Ex-Dubbie369 · Post by **Ex-Dubbie369** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:21 pm

nathantheguitarist wrote:Which is why I'm so damned excited for a remastered, rebroadcast of Might Morphin Power Rangers. Sure Disney can't do a new series half as good as the originals, but they have the power to make the originals look badass.

Not to mention most likely editing it all to hell. Plus, it will probably be the only version put on DVD in the US. So happy I bought the German boxsets when I did.

[Topic]

I think that this whole ordeal with the widescreen and colors and stuff wouldn't have really even happened had they not stopped the UUEs. If they had finished those, then moved to the season sets, I don't even think there would have been such a need for the DBoxes over here. People complain about how many releases DBZ has had, but the DBoxes will only the second complete release.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:29 pm

What's this about Disney? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty sure their Snow White Blu-Ray transfer was about as purist as you can get.

AndoKomando · Post by **AndoKomando** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:35 am

See, all these problems that people have with the remastered sets are just 1 of the many reasons I didn't crap my pants and shell out the money to buy these things. Another reason being that I want 1st edition prints, like the DVDs that only contain 3-4 episodes, or the VHS tapes that hold the same amount. The reason I want those instead of the newest in DB DVDs or videos is because I know that those old DVDs and VHS are good for what they are. They show the show the way they made it the first time; they didn't do anything to them that made us hate them. Now look at this. You guys are mad at Funi for "remastering," but in the end, you guys should be mad at each other or yourselves for being fools and buying them when you most likely sold your old DVDs/VHS for the bricks. See, I am as big a fan of the series as anyone on this board; maybe more than some, if not most. But I am smart enough to know when to chill on something and realize that the company will end up making more updated DVDs of this show because of you guys. I also know that eventually, because you guys continually give them your money, they may someday get it right. So basically, to sum up, what I am trying to get across to you people is... ask yourself these questions: Is it worth it? Will this release be the best release they will send out? Am I going to be disappointed and nit pick all the tiny details that don't even really matter? Will I jump on the bandwagon like all the other DB fans? Will I be smart and think about it, look up what they did exactly, and look for information on the release?

So really, people, stop complaining about the "remaster" of DBZ, because you're only making a fool of yourself, since you're the one who bought them and continued to buy them after you saw what they did to season 1. That's it for this post. Also, please don't reply with something stupid like, "Oh I didn't buy the rest because I saw what they did," because you, my friend, are smart enough to think before you buy something you won't like. But again, don't reply with something stupid. Thanks, and I hope you use this post as something not of offense, but as something to refer to when you want to buy something DB that you may think is not that great.

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Is what FUNimation did so horrible?

Is what FUNimation did so horrible?

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