Sigh... Why the Kikuchi Score Doesn't Work with the FUNi Dub

Gaffer Tape · Post by **Gaffer Tape** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:29 pm

As I've mentioned before, my recent acquisition of the Dragon Box has gotten me spot checking the dub for the first time in several years, allowing me to view the redub for the first time in some cases. I know Mike has said in certain episodes of the Podcast that it's the quality of the dub voices that clashes with the original Japanese score. Maybe that's true I agree that the voices do clash, but I don't know if that's really the case (all subjective, obviously). Yet they did work quite well in the Pioneer-released movies. Having done my spot-checking, I think I've come up with the answer. Let me give you this example:

In the recap for episode 23 I believe (don't have them in front of me), Goku is beating the crap out of Nappa. Then he Zanzokens in and has that awesome uppercut to Nappa's gut. Right at the point of that hit, the music just STOPS. Complete silence except for Nappa blubbering in pain. And it stays that way until Goku says, "That punch just now was for Chaozu."

THE ENGLISH SCRIPT WAS NOT WRITTEN TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT MOMENT OF SILENCE!

So instead, when you watch it in English, the music still stops since they're sourcing the original score, but Kyle Hebert just steamrolls over that entire moment by continuing to talk. It just sounds so bizarre, almost like the orchestra all just went into comas at that exact moment.

In contrast, the first three movies were written with those scores, those moments, in mind, so there's nothing jarring there. But we all know that one of FUNimation's biggest problems with their scripting is their nigh-inability to not have people talk. Here's one more fun example albeit a little less severe.

At the end of episode 17 when Tenshinhan-tachi return from getting killed by the dream Saiya-jin, Kami-sama asks them if they want to give up. There's an overhead shot of silence while they consider this. Then it cuts to a shot of Tenshinhan. The music begins a second before Tenshinhan smiles and then agrees to continue.

In the dub, this moment of silence is replaced by Kami-sama continuing to talk about how there is no shame in giving up. And he continues talking until the exact moment when Tenshinhan voices his assent... again, ruining the timing of when the music starts. Like before, it just makes the scene sound awkward due to their inaccurate scripting.

Don't get me wrong. Overall, I'm glad FUNimation dumped their revised score for this release. At least it's a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, I'm sure there are countless moments like this. Has anyone else noticed this? Or did you all do the smart thing and save yourselves the headaches by not bothering to check the dub in the first place?

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:32 pm

On my first viewing, I was just so glad to have the original score with English voices that I didn't pay attention to this. Now that you pointed it out, I'm sure it will. Thanks.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:34 pm

I think you answered your own question, Gaffer, when comparing the original FUNimation/Pioneer releases of DBZ movies 1-3 with the current stuff.

Those movies WERE scripted and produced with the original Japanese score in mind, which is why they feel so natural. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was a dubbed version... it had to do with the fact that they were meant to be together from the very beginning.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:09 pm

Not to mention the voices are about 4 times louder then the music.

Gaffer Tape · Post by **Gaffer Tape** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:16 pm

Haha, yeah, good point. What exactly is 5.1 about that dub anyway? The music doesn't seem to come from a stereo source (it would be much more awesome if they did use a stereo master for that) but rather the same mono as the original. I guess the voices are 5.1... maybe the sound effects too? Overall, it just seems like a rather haphazard and inconsistent thing.

Ultimate_DB_Fan · Post by **Ultimate_DB_Fan** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:41 pm

@Gaffer Tape
I think the dub, while I like it, is more tolerable with the Japanese BGM.
I also have no qualms what-so-ever with FUNimation for dumping the Faulconer stuff for the DBoxes.

Gaffer Tape · Post by **Gaffer Tape** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:45 pm

Oh, yes, I certainly agree. The dub with the original score is certainly a phenomenal improvement. It's just a shame that the other half of the dub still doesn't fit. It's a step in the right direction, but they'd really have to do it again from the ground up to have a chance of getting it to really work (and at this point... there'd be no point).

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:49 pm

I listened through the Goku vs. Vegeta fight like this...it worked alright but it just seemed excessively weird to my ears.

Greenman · Post by **Greenman** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:51 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:Not to mention the voices are about 4 times louder then the music.

I can't even stand to listen to that track because of this. At least on the season sets, by the time I turn up the volume enough to actually hear the music, the voices are uncomfortably loud.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:28 pm

I absolutely agree, actually.

Dragon Ball Z's English dub is essentially a different program than the Japanese version, a show that the Faulconer score belongs to.

But removing the Faulconer score is a step in the right direction towards a dub that is a faithful one.

Ultimate_DB_Fan · Post by **Ultimate_DB_Fan** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:30 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Oh, yes, I certainly agree. The dub with the original score is certainly a phenomenal improvement. It's just a shame that the other half of the dub still doesn't fit. It's a step in the right direction, but they'd really have to do it again from the ground up to have a chance of getting it to really work (and at this point... there'd be no point).

I agree with you that it still doesn't fit and that it does feel a bit awkward. There's no denying that. It's an improvement, nonetheless.
Doing it from the ground-up doesn't seem like an impossibility, contrary to what others may believe.

Ultimate_DB_Fan · Post by **Ultimate_DB_Fan** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:33 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Oh, yes, I certainly agree. The dub with the original score is certainly a phenomenal improvement. It's just a shame that the other half of the dub still doesn't fit. It's a step in the right direction, but they'd really have to do it again from the ground up to have a chance of getting it to really work (and at this point... there'd be no point).

I agree with you that it still doesn't fit and that it does feel a bit awkward. There's no denying that. It's an improvement, nonetheless.
Doing a redub from the ground-up doesn't seem like an impossibility, contrary to what others may believe.

penguintruth wrote:Dragon Ball Z's English dub is essentially a different program than the Japanese version, a show that the Faulconer score belongs to.

You just love saying that, don't you? We get it.

IncompetentOverlord · Post by **IncompetentOverlord** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:34 pm

.... can you say double post?

CashmanX · Post by **CashmanX** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:42 pm

IncompetentOverlord wrote:.... can you say double post?

Double post.

Anyway, Yeah, The English voices do not go well together with the original Japanese score.

At all.

Ultimate_DB_Fan · Post by **Ultimate_DB_Fan** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:46 pm

CashmanX wrote:
IncompetentOverlord wrote:.... can you say double post?

Double post.

Anyway, Yeah, The English voices do not go well together with the original Japanese score.

At all.

I slightly disagree.
In some instances, it does somewhat mesh together.

IncompetentOverlord · Post by **IncompetentOverlord** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:48 pm

Ultimate_DB_Fan wrote:
CashmanX wrote:
IncompetentOverlord wrote:.... can you say double post?

Double post.

Anyway, Yeah, The English voices do not go well together with the original Japanese score.

At all.
I slightly disagree.
In some instances, it does somewhat mesh together.

Case in point, Kuririn's goodbye to Goku before he fights Vegeta. That was classic. Hell, it's why I put it in my signature (I had it for like a month then took it off).

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:49 pm

Half the time I hardly notice any awkwardness.

Gaffer Tape · Post by **Gaffer Tape** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:51 pm

Ultimate_DB_Fan wrote: Doing a redub from the ground-up doesn't seem like an impossibility, contrary to what others may believe.

I don't think it's impossible. I just think they're aware they've already alienated their dub loyalist fanbase by reverting back to the original music, so I don't think they'd risk messing with the script again. Especially with Kai (most likely) on the horizon, it seems logical to me they'll simply use that to redeem themselves.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:53 pm

Yeah, FUNimation's mix is pretty terrible. I guess Toei gave them a bad effects and music track.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:00 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Yeah, FUNimation's mix is pretty terrible. I guess Toei gave them a bad effects and music track.

Naw, most of their 5.1 tracks have ended up this way. Their own fault.

Kanzenshuu

Sigh... Why the Kikuchi Score Doesn't Work with the FUNi Dub

Sigh... Why the Kikuchi Score Doesn't Work with the FUNi Dub

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