Non-"Rock the Dragon" English Opening

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Post by IncompetentOverlord » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:19 am

Man, with all this discussion of classic 90s cartoons, I can't believe no one has brought up SatAM (Otherwise known as Sonic the Hedgehog). That show, while not quite on par with something like the DCAU, was surprisingly dark, had female characters that weren't just there for the blue blur to swoop in and rescue ( As opposed to the games' Amy Rose the hedgebitch), and had the best Robotnik PERIOD.
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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:24 am

IncompetentOverlord wrote:Man, with all this discussion of classic 90s cartoons, I can't believe no one has brought up SatAM (Otherwise known as Sonic the Hedgehog). That show, while not quite on par with something like the DCAU, was surprisingly dark, had female characters that weren't just there for the blue blur to swoop in and rescue ( As opposed to the games' Amy Rose the hedgebitch), and had the best Robotnik PERIOD.
I really like Poochie the Hedgehog too.
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Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:28 am

Well, I've read most of the manga...and it wasn't much different from the dub.
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Post by IncompetentOverlord » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:30 am

NeptuneKai wrote:
IncompetentOverlord wrote:Man, with all this discussion of classic 90s cartoons, I can't believe no one has brought up SatAM (Otherwise known as Sonic the Hedgehog). That show, while not quite on par with something like the DCAU, was surprisingly dark, had female characters that weren't just there for the blue blur to swoop in and rescue ( As opposed to the games' Amy Rose the hedgebitch), and had the best Robotnik PERIOD.
I really like Poochie the Hedgehog too.
Yeah, Sonic could be corny as hell in that show. But I always like to think that 90s slang was part of the show's charm. It reminds me of how The Terminator is so obviously 80s when you go back and watch it, but you're enjoying it too much to care.
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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:31 am

IncompetentOverlord wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:
IncompetentOverlord wrote:Man, with all this discussion of classic 90s cartoons, I can't believe no one has brought up SatAM (Otherwise known as Sonic the Hedgehog). That show, while not quite on par with something like the DCAU, was surprisingly dark, had female characters that weren't just there for the blue blur to swoop in and rescue ( As opposed to the games' Amy Rose the hedgebitch), and had the best Robotnik PERIOD.
I really like Poochie the Hedgehog too.
Yeah, Sonic could be corny as hell in that show. But I always like to think that 90s slang was part of the show's charm. It reminds me of how The Terminator is so obviously 80s when you go back and watch it, but you're enjoying it too much to care.
Was it really 90's slang? It sounded more like they were giving Sonic 100 catchphrases hoping one would stick so they could slap it on merchandise.
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Post by IncompetentOverlord » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:34 am

NeptuneKai wrote:
IncompetentOverlord wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote: I really like Poochie the Hedgehog too.
Yeah, Sonic could be corny as hell in that show. But I always like to think that 90s slang was part of the show's charm. It reminds me of how The Terminator is so obviously 80s when you go back and watch it, but you're enjoying it too much to care.
Was it really 90's slang? It sounded more like they were giving Sonic 100 catchphrases hoping one would stick so they could slap it on merchandise.
It was 90s kid slang. I remember when I first watched it as a kid and thinking how much he sounded like some kids at my school. Or maybe kids at my school were just really, really corny. :?
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Post by Super Sonic » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:46 am

On topic regarding DBZ's themes being changed, have to ask two things. First, would dubbing "Cha-La" be well liked, even at this time? Remember when Funimation dubbed "Sakura Kiss" quite a few guys who downloaded Ouran were not very happy about it.

Second, why is changing the theme song not very well liked in DBZ, where in other series like Pokemon, no one seems to care, and everyone but that series' haters seems to love its changed thmes (at least the ones done by 4Kids)? Or does that just have more to do with Nintendo thinking dual-language releases won't be popular or whatnot?

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Post by nathantheguitarist » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:54 am

Just going to point out a couple of quotes here real quick.
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Bura wrote:I was talking about this one, actually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKtaPQVUPc
That was the pile of shit I was thinking of as well.
Kunzait_83 wrote:I don’t hear the slightest ounce of “thought” in Faulconer’s OP. I hear lots of mindless wailing away on a guitar and synthesizer, with absolutely no rhythm, no direction, and absolutely no rhyme or reason to it. That’s it. Whatever “thought” you guys are hearing in this theme’s “composition” (such as it is)… I’m not hearing a lick of it whatsoever. It’s just downright shitty synth-rock music to me, and is so banally generic and uninspired, it sounds like it could’ve come from any bad 90’s action cartoon. Any one of them.
penguintruth wrote:And anyway, it's a very fun song, and not some insult to your intelligence like the no-effort guitar riff themes for the dub.
Alrighty. Now, I'm going to assume that you guys know a thing or three about music. Otherwise, why would you say things like "no-effort guitar riff" or "mindless wailing away" if you had no clue about what goes into that stuff, right? Right?

Ok, now truth be told, I'd like to say it's fine for me to point this out. If you haven't guessed it, I actually DO play guitar. I have since 2001-2002-ish as a matter of fact. Now it took me quite a long time before I even got essentials and basics down. The required knowledge and technique to play a song that was already written in a book, I'd say maybe 2-3 years get a feel for. 4-5 if you want to count simple guitar solos. Now as for actually making my own stuff, well... it's just not that easy. I know enough scales and theory to noodle around for a few hours, but nothing really mind-bending to come up with an actual song. Maybe it's just me, but remember, this is just from my point of view. ;)

Now I'm not sure how long you guys think it took Bruce Faulconer or Scott Morgan (or any of the other DB composers who's names slip my mind easily) to land a job in the semi-professional music biz of TV show themes and scores, but certainly not long if you think it their job was easy enough to just "mindlessly wail" and put "no effort" into making any of the theme's for the dub. Back in 2002, if I were to mindlessly wail on my guitar, I'm sure it would come out pretty terrible. Literally no rhyme or reason to found anywhere.

Regardless of whether or not any of the music in the dub actually fits the show, it's not necessarily bad music in the sense of composition and talent etc. It might be outside of your taste in music, but it's no where near uninspired and cobbled together. At least I couldn't make something better. And I doubt I will be able to any time soon! If you guys want to call me out, and say I just suck at guitar or that I'm an extremely slow learner, be my guest!

I just can't see myself doing a damn thing CLOSE to something like THISin the near future. (Or anything in Scott's channel lol)

Ok, now go back to arguing about whether it has to actually do with the show or not. It just gave me a severe tick each time I read something dissing the actual musicality of the song and felt I had to respond. :? For the record, I believe Faulconer is solely responsible for the theme song. So if my Scott Morgan link doesn't make my point, then I'm just going to say that I can't play the theme song on guitar and that makes me a sad panda. Not Rock the Dragon, the one at the top of my post. RTD is more of one of those simple types of songs that somehow get catchy. That's a whole 'nother (way off-topic) argument though, so I'll stop now. :lol:
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Post by Captain Awesome » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:48 am

nathantheguitarist wrote: Regardless of whether or not any of the music in the dub actually fits the show, it's not necessarily bad music in the sense of composition and talent etc. It might be outside of your taste in music, but it's no where near uninspired and cobbled together. At least I couldn't make something better.
I totally see where you are coming from and couldn't agree more, I had my appendix out last year and had suffered from a severe infection due to the surgeon leaving a scalpel inside of me, I was about to criticise him for his sub-par performance, but then remembered that since I'm not a doctor and certainly couldn't do a better appendectomy myself, I kept my mouth shut and let him go on his merry way. :roll:

I agree with Kunzait in regards to Faulconer's dub OP, it's woefully generic, and utterly uninspired and in terms of composition it sounds completely haphazard. I couldn't do any better myself but that means absolutely nothing, it's like saying that because I'm not a big time director like James Cameron, Avatar is somehow a better movie.

I think the music sucks, and I don't need to be a doctor, director or a musician to have that opinion.

For those that were wondering, no I did not have an appendectomy :P
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Post by penguintruth » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:03 am

It's not so much the effort put in so much as whether it sounds like effort was put into it. I'm not saying I could do any better, but that's sort of the point, neither could they. A soundtrack was already available. Even if somehow the Faulconer music ended up a billion times better, even if you do prefer that music, it's still not the intended score for the series, nor is "Rock the Dragon" the vision of the producers instead of "Cha La Head Cha La".

If you want to complain that you just plain dislike DBZ's score, fine, you're entitled. But it's the score Toei intended for it. Er, at least until Kai. That's a different argument altogether.

I do sort of like that Vegeta theme... maybe a little...
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Post by Rocketman » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:39 am

penguintruth wrote:If you want to complain that you just plain dislike DBZ's score, fine, you're entitled. But it's the score Toei intended for it.


Somehow, I doubt Toei's judgment.

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Post by XanatosVanBadass » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:52 pm

Not to butt in too much, but whether or not Bruce Faulconer put effort in his work or not isn't for us to tell. However, the fact that Bruce hasn't done anything of note since he finished with DBZ speaks volumes as to his so-called "talent."

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Post by JulieYBM » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:02 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote:Not to butt in too much, but whether or not Bruce Faulconer put effort in his work or not isn't for us to tell. However, the fact that Bruce hasn't done anything of note since he finished with DBZ speaks volumes as to his so-called "talent."
Actually, the story supposedly goes he quit after Watson asked him to change his style for GT...
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Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:04 pm

Rocketman wrote:
penguintruth wrote:If you want to complain that you just plain dislike DBZ's score, fine, you're entitled. But it's the score Toei intended for it.


Somehow, I doubt Toei's judgment.
I agree with this. Toei doesn't have supreme word over everything that fits DBZ.

You know, I'd be really interested to see what you all would say if Akira Toriyama watched the dub and said he liked it and enjoyed the music and thought it fit the scenes well.
Captain Awesome wrote:
nathantheguitarist wrote: Regardless of whether or not any of the music in the dub actually fits the show, it's not necessarily bad music in the sense of composition and talent etc. It might be outside of your taste in music, but it's no where near uninspired and cobbled together. At least I couldn't make something better.
I totally see where you are coming from and couldn't agree more, I had my appendix out last year and had suffered from a severe infection due to the surgeon leaving a scalpel inside of me, I was about to criticise him for his sub-par performance, but then remembered that since I'm not a doctor and certainly couldn't do a better appendectomy myself, I kept my mouth shut and let him go on his merry way. :roll:

I agree with Kunzait in regards to Faulconer's dub OP, it's woefully generic, and utterly uninspired and in terms of composition it sounds completely haphazard. I couldn't do any better myself but that means absolutely nothing, it's like saying that because I'm not a big time director like James Cameron, Avatar is somehow a better movie.

I think the music sucks, and I don't need to be a doctor, director or a musician to have that opinion.

For those that were wondering, no I did not have an appendectomy :P
Talk about missing the point entirely.
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Post by JulieYBM » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:07 pm

Dragon Ball Z is Toei Animation show. They produced it, you may not like the show, but that music is the music that has been synonymous with the show worldwide for 20 damn years. Let's not belittle that.
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Post by VegettoEX » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:08 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:You know, I'd be really interested to see what you all would say if Akira Toriyama watched the dub and said he liked it and enjoyed the music and thought it fit the scenes well.
I'm speaking for myself, but I don't need anyone's explicit approval for me to decide which version I like the most. If he decided he liked it, great. He's a wonderful person that can make big-boy decisions for himself. I don't care if he's the original author or not.

Dub fans don't need my approval or this community's approval in order to like FUNimation's production. What the problem seems to be is that they constantly seem as if they *are* yearning for that approval.

We can all agree to disagree, but when you try to make claims and reasonings behind things without legitimate backing, then it just falls apart.
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Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:17 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Dragon Ball Z is Toei Animation show. They produced it, you may not like the show, but that music is the music that has been synonymous with the show worldwide for 20 damn years. Let's not belittle that.
They could have slapped any type of unrelated music onto it and it still would've been synonymous with the show.

Not only that, but the Faulconer music has been synonymous with DBZ over here for 10 years, so what's your point?
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Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Post by XanatosVanBadass » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:20 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Actually, the story supposedly goes he quit after Watson asked him to change his style for GT...
I think you're right about that, but that doesn't change my point that Bruce Faulconer hasn't done anything of note since he quit working for FUNimation.

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Post by Kunzait_83 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:21 pm

b
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Post by Kaboom » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:39 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:You know, I'd be really interested to see what you all would say if Akira Toriyama watched the dub and said he liked it and enjoyed the music and thought it fit the scenes well.
Toriyama also said he "liked" DBE. It doesn't somehow magically make THAT good any more than it does the FUNi dub or its music.
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