Your rewrite of the Dragon Ball manga

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Your rewrite of the Dragon Ball manga

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:57 am

If Toriyama decided to do a rewrite of the Dragon Ball manga (or you were his advisor back when he was doing the series), what things would you want him to change? Whether it be character designs, plot ideas, battles, you name it!
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Post by IncompetentOverlord » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:24 pm

I don't have time to do my full list, but I'll do my first suggestion.

Foreshadowing and overall plot flow: Dragonball really doesn't feel like one story: It feels like a collection of loosely linked short tales. Foreshowing would really help with the unity of the story.
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Post by Sprite Satan » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:27 pm

That whole "Gohan is the hero" thing you try and do once in a blue moon? Do it properly or don't do it at all.

That pile of bunk with the Namek Elder dying of stress caused by Freeza and blah blah blah. Go back and rewrite all of that.

How come Bulma got a naked bath scene and Chichi didn't? Work on that too.
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Post by Ichigo Storm » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:38 pm

First on my wish list is keeping battles based on skill and technique. Not the "I shootz bigger lazers than u" fights of post Namek DBZ.

Second, let's focus on characters that were established before the Saiya-jins arrival. I can't stand how human characters were tossed aside in Z. Hell even Piccolo was shafted in the Buu arc in favor of two little eight and nine year old children. They don't have to be the strongest characters in the series; I would simply prefer them to retain some usefulness.

Third, let’s keep the Super Saiya-jin power up limited to just Goku. Let Vegeta and everyone else find a different power up, like maybe a faux-Super Saiya-jin or something similar. That way it would keep the Super Saiya-jin as legendary as Vegeta and Freeza built it up to be. The only other character I would consider giving it to is Gohan. During his fight will Cell, instead of a rage awakened Super Saiya-jin 2, he becomes a legendary Super Saiya-jin. No one else could do it, only Gohan because of his father’s blood (and his roid rage). Goten never expresses rage to such an extent Gohan does, therefore he never becomes a Super Saiya-jin.

Finally, no specific power levels what-so-ever. None. They are far too limiting.

All this, I feel, would make a better series

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Post by Kaboom » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:46 pm

IncompetentOverlord wrote:Foreshadowing and overall plot flow: Dragonball really doesn't feel like one story: It feels like a collection of loosely linked short tales. Foreshowing would really help with the unity of the story.
I agree with this. Even just tiny little things like actually showing those little robot-bugs that were collecting DNA for Cell at certain points.
Ichigo Storm wrote:Finally, no specific power levels what-so-ever. None. They are far too limiting.
Numerical power levels served a great purpose in their time. They were there to show just how differently Ki was regarded and treated by the technology-dependent space thugs of Freeza's empire as compared to the more reverent and natural understanding of it by Earth's warriors.
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Post by FuniYamcha » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:00 pm

Sprite Satan wrote:That whole "Gohan is the hero" thing you try and do once in a blue moon? Do it properly or don't do it at all.

That pile of bunk with the Namek Elder dying of stress caused by Freeza and blah blah blah. Go back and rewrite all of that.

How come Bulma got a naked bath scene and Chichi didn't? Work on that too.
I've got to agree. In hindsight, Gohan was pretty much a worthless character. Only thing he ever did of use was beating Cell, but even then it could have just been written so that Goku destroyed Cell's entire body with the Kamehameha. So either make not such a whiny little puke, or just don't make him. And the stress-death thing was definitely eye roll worthy.

Also, for the love of all that is holy, make Goku teach at least ONE other person that damned instant movement technique. You'd think that a technique that's so bloody useful would be something he'd be anxious to share since it's....well....useful. Same with the Kaioken. I don't care if nobody uses either of them effectively but come on, you'd think at least ONE of them would have forced Goku to teach it.
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Post by the_abberration » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:48 pm

Have an arc where a Piccolo trained Gohan fought Goku (during the three years they are waiting for the androids). Gohan would learn some of Goku's techniques but can't quite reach SSJ.

Have Vegita take charge during Goku's recovery from the heart disease. He trains Gohan, and a combination of Vegita's harsh training and constant berating of Goku causes Gohan to reach SSJ. When Goku recovers, have him use the ROSAT to train for two days to catch up with everyone else.

Have Cell kill Goku. This triggers an already SSJ Gohan to become SSJ2 to beat Cell and actually take over as the lead.

Have him go off to train during the seven years of peace. Let him learn SSJ3, but because it uses so much power he can only use it sparingly and it peters out just before he's about to beat Buu. Have Goku's spirit guide Gohan in using the Spirit Bomb at the end and save the world.

Let Vegita stay dead in the Buu arc and have Goku call in a special favor, so they could have their one on one in the afterlife at the end of the series.
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Post by Thanos6 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:05 pm

Keep Mirai Trunks in the story post-Cell.
Trunks & Goten forever

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Post by IncompetentOverlord » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:15 pm

Thanos6 wrote:Keep Mirai Trunks in the story post-Cell.
Well, I'm not sure why that would be neccessary, aside from Mirai being awesome, but it would be interesting to see his reaction to his pint sized counterpart.
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Post by Thanos6 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:21 pm

IncompetentOverlord wrote:
Thanos6 wrote:Keep Mirai Trunks in the story post-Cell.
Well, I'm not sure why that would be neccessary, aside from Mirai being awesome, but it would be interesting to see his reaction to his pint sized counterpart.
Aren't those two things ENOUGH?! :shock:

Also, picture this: Mystic Gohan and Mystic Mirai tag-teaming Super Buu.

Followed, later, by Goku and Vegeta frantically evacuating five pods out of Buu's collapsing body; but since that's one pod more than they have hands, they have to literally juggle them back and forth, resulting in some very old-school Toriyama-esque action/slapstick.
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Post by Chrono Trigger » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:22 pm

IncompetentOverlord wrote: Foreshadowing and overall plot flow: Dragonball really doesn't feel like one story: It feels like a collection of loosely linked short tales. Foreshowing would really help with the unity of the story.
Really? I've always felt Dragon Ball did a pretty good job of tying things together and foreshadowing things. Every major revelation in Z reaches back into Dragon Ball and makes it all believable. How does it feel like a collection of loosely linked tells? It all fits together to me as a whole. From one art to the next....
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Post by Ununbium » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:28 pm

A better 28th Tenkaichi Budokai.
Have all of the Dragon Warriors participate. Base forms for Saiyans for better matches.

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Post by IncompetentOverlord » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:29 pm

Chrono Trigger wrote:
IncompetentOverlord wrote: Foreshadowing and overall plot flow: Dragonball really doesn't feel like one story: It feels like a collection of loosely linked short tales. Foreshowing would really help with the unity of the story.
Really? I've always felt Dragon Ball did a pretty good job of tying things together and foreshadowing things. Every major revelation in Z reaches back into Dragon Ball and makes it all believable. How does it feel like a collection of loosely linked tells? It all fits together to me as a whole. From one art to the next....


Well, look at it this way.... from the beginning through the uranai Baba arc, it flows. After that, the 22nd Budokai through the 23rd budokai feels connected. The Saiyan invasion and into the Namek arc feels seperate. The Cell arc feels more like a tacked on sequel to the Freeza and Red Ribbon arcs than a true continuation. The Boo arc also kinda feels out there. Anything further was covered in Kaboom's post.
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Post by Rocketman » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:21 pm

Have a chapter in the Saiyan saga where Vegeta kills all the human fighters by pointing.


More seriously, I'd make Freeza much, much weaker. 200,000 in first form, growing by 100,000 every transformation. Kaioken would be limited to x2 at maximum to scale Goku with this, and the appropriate adjustments in earleir portions to march up.

Also, nothing above Super Saiyan, Vegetto never defuses, and Vegeta kills Cell.

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Post by caejones » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:03 pm

Re: Scouters and battle powers...
... Their entire purpose in the series is to fail. I have no idea how it was so easy for us (Totally including myself, here) to miss that.
(Then again, the first time I used a scouter in Fanfiction accidentally worked out similarly against my n00b OCs... it just took me many years to realize that. :D )

'nyway, [sbVoice] my Award-winning Rewrite of DB, eh Piccolo Daimao? Well, my attempts for Video games probably wouldn't work well in manga form, so I'm gonna have to stream-of-conscious post again. Let's hope it works.[/sbVoice]...
  • Filler revisits a lot of characters and locations in that transition between the 21st tournament and the Red Ribbon Army. I think some of that can be reworked into canon if handled appropriately (and less episodicly). I particularly think the stuff involving Silver, Pilaf, and Goku+ChiChi at Mt. Frypan works rather well, and even leads into the manga encounter with Silver pretty smoothly.
  • It's very obvious when enemies are being built up as a challenge for Goku--Nappa somehow shakes off Chaozu's telekinesis, Recoome shrugs off everything and nigh mortally wounds everyone (and guess what, Goku's _so_ close to the battle in both instances). That's great, and all, but can we come up with something a bit less dismissive than "Yeah, Nappa's just so strong that logic literally shatters when he grunts"? Something as weak as "Lol we saiyans have encountered psychics before and know how to deal with them lol" would work. 'Specially for Nappa, since he's been around longer than Vegeta.
  • The big problem with the human cast's involvement is that they're mostly dead during the saiyan-Freeza arc, so there's not so much room for them afterward. I kinda feel like this started earlier, though, with Raditz--T'en and Yamcha are just plain not there. Throwing them on the frontline afterward is just kinda pointless. I kinda think we still have an interesting contrast between Goku and T'en straight into this part of the series; they've both got girls hot for them, they both like wandering around training, and they both have a tiny sidekick (Granted, Chaozu and Gohan differ considerably... their brief interaction in movie3 is kinda fun. XD ). But then we see how they handle these differently--Goku's just kinda like "Oh, yeah, sure, 'tevs lol", and T'en's like "Sorry, training comes first.". I dunno, maybe we can play on that more to accomplish something?
  • That gap between Daimao and Raditz is kinda gaping. The 23rd tournament feels like an epilogue more than anything. Need to do something about that.
  • Why wouldn't Goku, ChiChi and Gohan be more adventury? Traveling to different places and studying what's there would be pretty effective education--ChiChi approves. It's also how Goku trained--Gou approves. And hey, that'd supplement the dragonball hunting that we know that they did before Raditz showed up. Hmm. (Blah, we could fill a whole series with between-stuff. :P.)
  • Freeza is something special. Let's keep it that way. This means that it'd be really, really difficult for random people to get close to Freeza's abilities. And ... Buu needs to make sense.
  • Tying a bit into the above... the fact that there is a lot of death-cheating shouldn't be ignored. I also think that there should be a good reason not to look toward the Namekian dragonballs to solve what the Earth dragonballs can't. (This has come up more than once in planning for stuff in text-RPGs. "Just go to Namek for that part.". O.O ). I like that the rules and abilities differ. That they kinda... stop differing is a bit of an inconvenience. -_-. Looking at the Buu Saga, specifically.
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Post by penguintruth » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:39 pm

- Less Freeza forms. We should have the form we first see him in, and then his real form. That's it.

- King Cold should actually do something. Trunks should easily dispatch Freeza, but King Cold should be around until Goku arrives, and Goku disables him as soon as he steps out of the space pod, casually, like it means nothing. Then Vegeta finishes him off out of contempt.

- Keep Gohan the hero after the Cell Saga. The whole "Z" portion of the story is about Gohan, in my opinion, and the inheriting of his father's place means much less if Goku becomes the hero yet again. That isn't to say Goku shouldn't have a role, but Gohan beats Buu in the end, even if he has to learn to use the Genki Dama and do that same thing himself.
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Post by caejones » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:45 pm

penguintruth wrote:
- King Cold should actually do something. Trunks should easily dispatch Freeza, but King Cold should be around until Goku arrives, and Goku disables him as soon as he steps out of the space pod, casually, like it means nothing. Then Vegeta finishes him off out of contempt.
I think King Cold should do something, but what, I'm not sure... Hm.
- Keep Gohan the hero after the Cell Saga. The whole "Z" portion of the story is about Gohan, in my opinion, and the inheriting of his father's place means much less if Goku becomes the hero yet again. That isn't to say Goku shouldn't have a role, but Gohan beats Buu in the end, even if he has to learn to use the Genki Dama and do that same thing himself.
After the Cell saga? What about during?
Gohan does absolutely nothing besides carry Bulma, Yajirobe and baby Trunks between leaving the Freeza fight and fighting Cell. I kinda think if he had, a lot of the complaints people have about him at the Cell Games could be softened.
But yeah, I understand why, I guess. But still...
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Post by Khalid Shahin » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:21 pm

This applies to both the manga and the anime. And this is all I can think of at the moment.

Good Suggestions
-Future Trunks keeps his sword. Without it there are too many generic "fighters".
-More creative physical contact in fights and less energy beams.
-Less Frieza transformations.
-Like everyone is saying do something more with King Cold or get rid of him. Don't make him pop out of nowhere.
-Have a special (manga or anime) showing what happens in Future Trunks' timeline prior to Trunks' birth, like show how Goku defeats Freeza and King Cold.
-Foreshadow Dr. Gero during the Red Ribbon Army saga, but don't make it forced.
-I can't think of any way to foreshadow Buu without doing a significant/dumb change to the story. Let's keep him the way he is, popped out of nowhere.
-This goes unsaid. No inconsistencies. Such as the Dragon Ball rules, Buu, Cell, etc.


Might be Crazy Enough to Work
-Get rid of Kaio-ken, and rename Genki Dama to Kaio-ken, because a huge spirit bomb is that much more badass if it is called "Fist of the Worlds". I did say it's crazy.
-Perhaps have other intentions to go to outerspace/Namek other than their Dragon Balls, maybe these intentions exist before Vegeta's arrival.
-Gohan never goes SSJ, and instead gains his mystic form during the Cell saga; which resembles his monkey king attire.
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Post by IncredibleGuy » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:26 pm

Make Gohan the main character, get rid of powerlevels, keep only one set of dragon balls, and make the dragon balls the focus of every single dragon ball villian.
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Post by IncompetentOverlord » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:41 pm

IncredibleGuy wrote:Make Gohan the main character, get rid of powerlevels, keep only one set of dragon balls, and make the dragon balls the focus of every single dragon ball villian.
While that makes sense in theory, it could get REALLY boring having nothing but villains who are after the Dballs. Perhaps you should amend it to be that the Dragonballs always have an important prescence in the plot, whether it has to do with the villains or not.
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