If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

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If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Bardo117 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:24 pm

...The best version of Dragonball/Z/Gt for us. This might be the perfect set for people who speak Japanese, but for any other language it is a waste of money. It might have almost all of the DB footage available, but the set doesn't even come with English subtitles or any other language subtitles.


You're basically wasting $1000 per box for a set that will be on mute the entire time? And don't you need a Japanese DVD player since it has a Region 1 DVD encoding?

The orange bricks are probably the most encompassing set ever made in America. Not only does it reach out to 3 different Dub fanbases, but it's the cheapest and easiest to find.

I mean, do people actually watch the Orange bricks and sit their saying "Damn, I WISH I COULD SEE THE TOP OF GOKU'S HAIR"?

The FUNI DragonBoxes are pretty good too, but I hate how it's missing the Faulconer music which most people that grew up with Dragonball Z in America are annoyed by.(I personally didn't grow up with this music, I grew up with the Spanish Dub which has the original Japanese score) UNLESS they include all the extras in the next few boxes, I won't be buying those boxes anytime soon.

The DragonBox might be the most perfect set ever made, but for Languages that aren't Japanese, it really isn't much.

Personally, I still haven't found the perfect Dragonball set. Until the day that they decide to include the spanish dub into one of their sets, I'll never be satisfied.

This was probably a horrible way to start off, but I'm just stating my opinion. Hopefully people can respect that and have a healthy discussion about this.
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Cipher » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:47 pm

Bardo117 wrote:I mean, do people actually watch the Orange bricks and sit their saying "Damn, I WISH I COULD SEE THE TOP OF GOKUS HAIR"?
No, but people watch and sit there saying, "Holy shit, the framing of almost everything is really awkward."

If it had to be cropped, the Japanese broadcast of Kai did a much better job. They actually looked at each shot and framed it for the best composition. Funimation simply took the center portion of each frame. A lot of the time it's not entirely noticeable, but then you get things like heads being cut off, mouths half out the bottom of the frame, characters heads just barely peeking in from the bottom (this is a problem practically any time one character is in the foreground and one in the background) and shots that just plain don't look right. It's distracting.

The greater problem with the orange bricks are strange results created by their heavy-handed, automatic remastering processes. In addition to blurring a lot of the details to remove all the grain, you have instances of damage being left in and outlines actually disappearing instead. It gets better as the sets go on, but that's the sort of thing that just shouldn't happen. At all. Ever.

I don't think there's much dispute that if you're an English-speaking fan, the Funimation Dragon Boxes are pretty much the ideal set. The main reason people still want the Japanese boxes is because they're such limited collector's items. And while it sucks that there's no high quality release of Funimation's reversioned DBZ, there's no amount of love for the Faulconer Productions score that should offset the quality of the Dragon Boxes compared to the Season Sets. And I do appreciate having the dub with the Japanese soundtrack on there.

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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Kendamu » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:33 am

Bardo117 wrote:...The best version of Dragonball/Z/Gt for us. This might be the perfect set for people who speak Japanese, but for any other language it is a waste of money. It might have almost all of the DB footage available, but the set doesn't even come with English subtitles or any other language subtitles.
Why would it? It's a Japanese release meant specifically for Japanese people only.
You're basically wasting $1000 per box for a set that will be on mute the entire time? And don't you need a Japanese DVD player since it has a Region 1 DVD encoding?
Region 2. Region 1 is USA. Again, it's a Japanese release meant for Japanese people. If you don't speak Japanese and don't know the story inside and out (like a lot of fans who would buy the JP DBox do) then why would you buy it? Even the people who say that the JP DBox is the perfect release don't recommend it for people who wouldn't enjoy it due to a severe language barrier.
The orange bricks are probably the most encompassing set ever made in America. Not only does it reach out to 3 different Dub fanbases, but it's the cheapest and easiest to find.
I agree that most fans perfectly enjoy the Orange Bricks. The US DBox pretty much falls under the category of "Collector's Edition." Really, though, the Orange Bricks were a screw-up. If they were done like the Blue or Green Bricks (4:3, better coloring, and no line disappearances) then I'd have likely bought them and would've been happy. I'm sure a lot of people would've been. Sure, it's no DBox but it'd be more than acceptable especially considering the price.

To be fair, though, both the types of fans who prefer a specific OST for DBZ are very small. Most fans I know don't even know about all that stuff and just play the Orange Bricks on the default setting (dub with JP OST) and perfectly enjoying it. To be honest, the broadcast OST isn't really that big of a deal and most casual buyers couldn't care less about either score.

It's best that it's not on the DBox.
I mean, do people actually watch the Orange bricks and sit their saying "Damn, I WISH I COULD SEE THE TOP OF GOKU'S HAIR"?
Around here? Yes. You'll find comparisons of the Orange Brick cropping and the Kai JP broadcast cropping if you go back far enough to when Kai first had TV ads on Fuji TV.
The FUNI DragonBoxes are pretty good too, but I hate how it's missing the Faulconer music which most people that grew up with Dragonball Z in America are annoyed by.(I personally didn't grow up with this music, I grew up with the Spanish Dub which has the original Japanese score) UNLESS they include all the extras in the next few boxes, I won't be buying those boxes anytime soon.
1) Most people here don't care.
2) Most fans (the ones you don't find frequenting DBZ fansites and watch the Bricks on their default setting) in general don't care.
The DragonBox might be the most perfect set ever made, but for Languages that aren't Japanese, it really isn't much.
Again, it's a Japanese release for Japanese people. It's not like there's a lot of language options for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (80s version) DVDs or the Batman: The Animated Series DVDs. Likely, if there's any beyond English, they're likely limited to languages commonly spoken in the US and Canada. At the most, that's English, Spanish, and French. In Japan, the vast majority of people commonly speak Japanese so it makes sense.
Personally, I still haven't found the perfect Dragonball set. Until the day that they decide to include the spanish dub into one of their sets, I'll never be satisfied.
I know how you feel. I've wanted a really nice DBZ set that's affordable for about a decade. I held out on everything until the US DBox before I started collecting more than a select few favorite episodes.

I know there are Spanish "Dragonboxes" out there, but I don't know much about the differences between the different types of Spanish and the one's I'm speaking of are from Spain. Maybe someone here could link you to them if that would work for you.
This was probably a horrible way to start off, but I'm just stating my opinion. Hopefully people can respect that and have a healthy discussion about this.
I'd expect it to break out into fighting eventually, but you'll get some thoughtful responses. Most of them will be along the lines of what I just said, only said in a smarter way. :lol:

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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Gouki* » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:34 am

Bardo117 wrote:You're basically wasting $1000 per box for a set that will be on mute the entire time? And don't you need a Japanese DVD player since it has a Region 1 DVD encoding
I always laugh when I remember that region encoding of DVDs and locking of players is actually a problem in the US.
... Maybe later.

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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Kendamu » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:08 am

Gouki* wrote:
Bardo117 wrote:You're basically wasting $1000 per box for a set that will be on mute the entire time? And don't you need a Japanese DVD player since it has a Region 1 DVD encoding
I always laugh when I remember that region encoding of DVDs and locking of players is actually a problem in the US.
With the Internet, it isn't difficult to find out how to unlock a lot of DVD players.

Consoles, on the other hand...

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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by AnimeMaakuo » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:45 pm

You're basically wasting $1000 per box for a set that will be on mute the entire time? And don't you need a Japanese DVD player since it has a Region 1 DVD encoding?
First of all, I'm going to be fair with everything. The retail of the JP DBox sets were $1,000.. That's just retail value.

It wouldn't be a waste if it was something you see as a perfect set, everybody of course has their own opinion which is fine. I'm not sure you're fully aware of the ramifications here. It's not on "mute," it's on a Japanese track. I understand you chose that word because most people can't understand Japanese. Let me tell you something, if you've watched the show, and you love the original casting and audio track.. Why would it matter? Even if you can't understand the language, it still sounds really cool! You know how the story goes. Take some lessons, or hold out for the U.S Dbox somewhere in the future.

Most people got the JP Dboxes because it's a limited item, that contains all kinds of specials, proper quality, bla bla bla. I've been a fan of this show since it started airing. I know the show, I know what's meant to be said, so I bought these JP Dbox sets.
I bought them for one reason only.. To watch it in the truest of form and have everything I need, but of course it was for an arm and a leg tehehe. Anyhow, It just gives you this old classy feel to the show. Even the U.S Dboxes give it! The Orange Brick Box sets were just out of line.

I understand, some people like casual fans don't know or care, that's their choice. If you begin to become a greater in-depth fan, then Dbox is for you. If you can't afford the JP Box sets, then buy the U.S ones or if you don't like the Japanese audio, then watch it in English (In the U.S Dbox). If you try it, by watching it all in Japanese, you would most likely understand what I'm talking about. I know from your stand point, its as if saying "watch Yu-Gi-Oh in Japanese!!" You're probably thinking .. huh? Anyway, that's my take, hope everything works out for ya.
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Ahiru77 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:51 pm

Bardo117 wrote: I mean, do people actually watch the Orange bricks and sit their saying "Damn, I WISH I COULD SEE THE TOP OF GOKU'S HAIR"?
I lol'ed. :mrgreen:

It all depends on what you want. I would be the one nagging about colors. I love dark colors.

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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Bardo117 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:17 pm

They should start re-releasing the Orange Bricks again but in sets of 2(Like GT) with the same re-mastering process without the cropping.


Or they should just -reanimate the entire series to add a new spin to the series. Even if Toriyama isn't writing it, it's still basically HIS story anyways.
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:19 pm

Bardo117 wrote:They should start re-releasing the Orange Bricks again but in sets of 2(Like GT) with the same re-mastering process without the cropping.
They can't. As far as we can tell, the remastering was done AFTER it was cropped.

I simply do not see FUNimation going back to revisit that internally-produced video master ever again. With how much they've gone against their past ways and statements lately with regard to aspect ratios and video integrity, it would be a senseless 180 for them.
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Kaboom » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:34 pm

Not to mention that the "remastering" process was even MORE detrimental to most of the sets than the cropping. If I had to choose between one or the other, I'd gladly take cropping over blurred, over-contrasted, frame-bleeding, eye-burning footage.
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Bardo117 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:35 pm

I don't know why FUNI spends their time trying to mimic the Dragon Box when they could be coming up with their OWN supreme-awesome set. They could add everything the Japanese Dragon Box had PLUS more things like put it on Blu-ray, add all the languages, put badass packaging (with/on/in the set), and even throw in a new DBZ game before it is released to the public. Then they could go back and "fix" all the mistakes of the Japanese Dragon Box sets (the few that were listed on Kanzentai).

I'm just throwing ideas out there, but it'd be nice of them to do that.

Something like this would be nice. Image
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Kendamu » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:49 pm

Bardo117 wrote:I don't know why FUNI spend their time trying to mimic the DragonBox when they could be coming up with their OWN supreme-awesome set. They could add everything the Japanese Dragonbox had PLUS more things like put it on Blu-Ray, add all the languages, put Badass packaging, and even throw in a new DBZ game before it is released to the public. Then go back and "Fix" all the mistakes of the JdragonBox(The few that where listed on Kanzenban)

I'm just throwing ideas out their, but it'd be nice of them to do that.

Something like this would be nice.

[snippage]
Because those of us who were really against the Orange Bricks were using the DBox as a direct comparison and many of us who were comparing the two were going out of our way to either buy the JP DBox, buy the JP DBox singles, going on eBay for the old US singles, downloading fansubs, bootlegging, or were just not purchasing anything until FUNi put out something of much better quality than the Orange Bricks (preferably the DBox). So, FUNi decided to make us happy by recreating the DBox as best as they could while keeping it affordable.

So, really, they've done some really awesome stuff for those of us who were doing everything in our power to not buy the Orange Bricks.
put Badass packaging
The US DBox does have badass packaging, thanks.

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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by penguintruth » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:52 pm

Letting Funimation do anything on their own is like asking a drunk to drive you home.

The US Dragon Boxes are great precisely because it's marketed towards fans of what DBZ is, instead of what Funimation turned it into. They've now phased out the awful Faulconer years. Why include something that never should have existed to begin with? If only they had produced an entirely new English dub for them.
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Castor Troy » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:56 pm

They should use the orange bricks instead of wood for martial arts students to break.

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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Bardo117 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:58 pm

But why settle for the same? Why not reach out even farther than the jDragonBox did?

If they have the chance to be the best, why not go for it? Why settle for second place? Wouldn't they want people to say "Damn, FUNI really made a beast set here that's even better than the jDragonBox"


This will probably happen in the future though, I don't see FUNi sticking with the Orange Bricks/aDragonBoxes for the rest of their existence. Eventually, they're gonna start scratching the bottom of the barrel for new DBZ footage(Or things related) and that's when we'll see something REALLY good.

Maybe when they get sold, we'll see a new direction for the FUNi management.
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:04 pm

Bardo117 wrote:But why settle for the same? Why not reach out even farther than the jDragonBox did?

If they have the chance to be the best, why not go for it? Why settle for second place? Wouldn't they want people to say "Damn, FUNI really made a beast set here that's even better than the jDragonBox"
Because they tried their own thing. The orange bricks were their own definitive set. That was their attempt to make the best possible release they could. And it sucked. Terribly. Penguintruth's analogy about letting them do anything on their own being like asking a drunk to drive you home is true. I don't trust FUNimation to do anything right with the series, so I'd much rather than just mimic the best Dragon Ball home release ever and leave their grubby little hands off of it as much as humanly possible, thank you very much. I've seen what their "personal touches" are, and I'd rather be safe than sorry.
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by penguintruth » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:13 pm

It's not Funimation's place to improve on something they didn't create, whether it's the show itself or the release. Theirs is to simply translate and release. Anything else is arrogant.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by TonyTheTiger » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:17 pm

Kendamu wrote:It's best that it's not on the DBox.
I'm don't think that's entirely fair. I know I sound like a broken record but not caring about an extra feature vs. actually celebrating its absence are two different things. If there was some technical reason the broadcast audio couldn't have been included (even as just a stereo 2.0 track which takes up very little space) then so be it. But if it was kept out just for the hell of it? That's not a good thing. Particularly for the fans (admittedly small in number) who like the broadcast audio yet are aware that the Orange Bricks are visually garbage.
VegettoEX wrote:I simply do not see FUNimation going back to revisit that internally-produced video master ever again. With how much they've gone against their past ways and statements lately with regard to aspect ratios and video integrity, it would be a senseless 180 for them.
Agreed. It wouldn't even make any sense financially.
Bardo117 wrote:Why settle for second place? Wouldn't they want people to say "Damn, FUNI really made a beast set here that's even better than the jDragonBox"
Considering that FUNi's set comes with solid English subtitles along with a price that doesn't make me want to Falcon Punch the shit out of my monitor, I'd say FUNi made a set that is better. But that's just me.
penguintruth wrote:It's not Funimation's place to improve on something they didn't create, whether it's the show itself or the release. There's is to simply translate and release. Anything else is arrogant.
I don't necessarily think this is true, though. Look at all the video games that are improved upon localization. Engine tweaks, glitch removals, added features, etc.

An improvement is an improvement. Who cares where it comes from? Apparently FUNi's DVD release of Kai is better than Toei's own release.

The Orange Bricks don't suck merely by virtue of it being a change. They suck because the changes were all for the worse.
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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by penguintruth » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:24 pm

TonyTheTiger wrote:I don't necessarily think this is true, though. Look at all the video games that are improved upon localization. Engine tweaks, glitch removals, added features, etc.

An improvement is an improvement. Who cares where it comes from? Apparently FUNi's DVD release of Kai is better than Toei's own release.

The Orange Bricks don't suck merely by virtue of it being a change. They suck because the changes were all for the worse.
Oh hey, maybe Funimation should cut medicore material, too. Maybe they should spruce up the script. Maybe they should draw their own covers. Because all of that works out real well, right?

Once you get them working on "improvements", they begin to think that this work is their creation, which it isn't, and treat it like its theirs. For better or worse, they should try to touch it the least they can.

Don't use video games as an example. They're completely different things.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: If you really think about it, the Japanese DragonBox isn't..

Post by TonyTheTiger » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:27 pm

Don't be so broad with your assertions next time. And that's a serious straw man you've got going there.

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