.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I enjoy GT a lot more when I completely forget that it wasn't in the original story, and when I don't go all "Dragon Ball nerd" and rip the plot to shreds. Some people 'round these parts should at least try doing likewise.

[dbgtFO]

I'm not sure why you're taking this tone with people where you seem extremely defensive over a kids cartoon. You know you don't need Daizex's validation to like what you want to like right? How about you calm down and not treat opinions on Dragonball like they're attacking your religion.

Pretty much this.

Why is it that everybody seems to hate Dragon Ball GT?

People have opinions and not everybody hates it, since "everybody" includes YOU.

They also say things such as: "well it's not in the manga, so it's fake, fake, fake." It seems like a very good sequel to me?!

Again people have differing opinions on stuff. You can't expect everyone to like, what you like just because you think, that it's so amazing that people should like it as well.

How much was Akira Toriyama really involved?
Why would he write something fake, when he was involved in it, and even made some things of his own?

Who knows, if Toriyama meant, what he wrote? Since we don't, we have to assume he meant it and we know that he only helped with character designs and such.

Wasn't it stated that Toriyama had wished Son Goku could have been a kid ealier or something around the lines of?

I don't remember.

I know his opinion doesn't override others opinions, but it does show his interest right?

Sure, but what does Toriyama's interest in the series have to do with people's opinions? If people don't like it, then they just don't like it, even if Toriyama stated he wanted us to enjoy it together.

Do you think Akira Toriyama really liked Dragon Ball GT? Also, why do you think he never truly made a manga of it?

I don't know, if he liked it, so I won't guess. Toriyama didn't want to be limited by deadlines anymore, so he went back to making short stories.

What did he truly mean by "DragonBall GT is a grand side-story of the original DragonBall, and it'll make me happy for us to watch and enjoy it together." But what does this mean?

That it's not the main DB story, but a show Toriyama wants us to enjoy regardless.

Some people don't like it, that's okay. But without Toriyama, DBGT would be a disaster period.

Says who? Toriyama didn't even contribute much in the first place and what he actually contributed is what many fans usually find laughable(prime example being Vegeta with a moustache).

[Rocketman]

I enjoy GT a lot more when I completely forget that it wasn't in the original story, and when I don't go all "Dragon Ball nerd" and rip the plot to shreds. Some people 'round these parts should at least try doing likewise.

Okay.

*Base Goten firing a blast at SS Vegeta cuts his cheek; SS Goten firing a blast at base Goku is deflected effortlessly*

*SS Vegeta overwhelmed to the point of never landing a single punch by SS Gohan and base Goten; base Goku blocks SS2 Gohan and Goten(?) easily, then shuts them down with a quick combo*

>:(

[Hellspawn28]

I never hate GT, I think had some good moments. It seems like fans hated GT for Pan since most fans view her as Dragon Ball's version of "Jar Jar Binks". I enjoy GT for what it was, and the SSj4 desgin was not too bad neither. I will admit that Super 17 was my favorite GT villain when his story arc was only 8 episodes long.

[NeoKING]

How about instead of putting them in a situation where MOAR POWAH is needed, you stick them in a situation where thinking and teamwork is needed against a tricky foe? Nope, instead we get Kamehameha TIMES TEN. WHOA! What amazing power, pretty cool guys, amirite?

Um, Lord Lood, dood...

Seriously, I'unno why people watch GT and analyze all this stuff into it. I never watched it to hate it. I just threw logic out the window. This is Dragon Ball. There are plot holes and contradictions in the story all the time. I didn't expect anything out of GT, but it was really fun and interesting to me.

[VegettoEX]

If you don't want to think about it and put any effort into comparing it with things, chances are you're also not going to come talk about it on a message board.

If something is just a casual, "Oh hey, I watched this thing!"... I'm just not going to bother talking about it with anyone.

[NeoKING]

If you don't want to think about it and put any effort into comparing it with things, chances are you're also not going to come talk about it on a message board.

If something is just a casual, "Oh hey, I watched this thing!"... I'm just not going to bother talking about it with anyone.

Well if I'm forced to go "super-hardcore Dragon Ball nerd" mode...

I'd say people mostly hate GT's plot holes and execution from the very start. I mean, Goku wasn't able to keep SSJ3 for long, yet he can stay as a SSJ4 for as long as he wanted. You could argue that this was because of the tail giving him more power, but... yeah. Then there's Goku not being able to do proper Instant Trans-location as a kid but he can become a Super Saiyan without a hitch, and a lot other plot holes that I don't feel like mentioning.('Cos I can't remember 'em.)

But really, I find that most people who sit and watch GT without their Criticism Knife and Plot-Dissecting Fork at hand tend to be entertained by it. Most people.

[Cipher]

If you don't want to think about it and put any effort into comparing it with things, chances are you're also not going to come talk about it on a message board.

If something is just a casual, "Oh hey, I watched this thing!"... I'm just not going to bother talking about it with anyone.

We're not discussing anything other than the perceived quality and personal enjoyment of the show though. Talking about something as shallow as Dragon Ball, the quality almost is nothing other than personal enjoyment.

I don't see what's so illegitimate about someone popping in to say that they are capable of enjoying or ignoring aspects others cannot. We're all discussing how we watch the show, what we like about it, and what we don't. Other people are saying small contradictory details hinder their enjoyment of the series so much they can't watch it. This guy's saying it doesn't bother him and that it's perhaps best watched without those in mind.

Moreover, the thread is really only asking "Do you enjoy GT? If so, explain how and why." I think his post did that enough. He does enjoy it, and he attributes that to watching it without nit-picking internal logic.

[VegettoEX]

Er, I was in no way telling people to NOT come express their opinions about it and how they arrive at those opinions. Is that what you're saying? I can't even tell.

My point was to people who: (1) seem to enjoy it and (2) can't seem to understand why it is that people want to speak ill of it. With a series like DBGT, it's likely that the majority of conversation, based on things like its production and relation to prior series, will be negative.

(Once again, if you consume any type of media and have no strong feelings any which way, you likely won't go out of your way to converse on a deeper level about it.)

I hate to bring it back to this, and I in no way want to get into this as a larger discussion, but it's like the folks who watched FUNimation's dub of DBZ as a kid and later come to find out that a larger group of people view it with scorn. To them, it simply "was". There was no qualification about it.

To some of the people who watched DBGT as-is and didn't take it any further, conversations like this disrupt their world, and it takes them time to comprehend what's going on. Sometimes they even START these conversations, grasping for reasons why someone doesn't like what they simply know as a state-of-being with no qualification what-so-ever (or, going a little further, just a minor bit of enjoyment).

(And to say that there are no artistic or other qualities within shallow ol' DB is doing it a disservice. No, it's not Shakespeare, but it's not complete drivel, either.)

[Cipher]

(And to say that there are no artistic or other qualities within shallow ol' DB is doing it a disservice. No, it's not Shakespeare, but it's not complete drivel, either.)

Well, I obviously wouldn't be on this website if I didn't agree. It was just hyperbole.

And yeah, I see what you're saying. I guess there needs to be a bit of qualification beyond "ignore the bad parts."

[GamingBuddha]

Cell has the genetic composition of Freeza contained within him and thus all the potential power of the beast

I actually had a question about that. If Gero wasn't recording what was happening on Planet Namek, how did he get Freeza's cells?

[JulieYBM]

Cell has the genetic composition of Freeza contained within him and thus all the potential power of the beast

I actually had a question about that. If Gero wasn't recording what was happening on Planet Namek, how did he get Freeza's cells?

Freeza came to Earth. Somehow or another he was able to collect DNA.

[Castor Troy]

I've seen GT scattered here and there, but if the main team was Goku, Pan, Trunks, Goten, and most importantly, Uub, it would have been somewhat watchable.

[Bussani]

It bugs me when people criticize GT for things that are present in the rest of the series.

I've seen people say this sort of thing before, but I feel that it exaggerates what's present in the manga. Goku was the main character and go-to guy in the rest of the series, sure, but GT takes it well beyond that. Maybe it's because everyone's strength levels seem so poorly defined in GT, so it just feels like Goku is made as strong as he needs to be in order to solve every problem.

And like Vagrant said, Cell had a good reason for existing and made sense. Hell, he had a whole saga based around him. Rildo, on the other hand, caused some trouble for a little while until everyone got bored of him and finished him off with one-handed ki blasts. Even if they were just trying to make him let go of their ship, it's an abrupt and unsatisfying conclusion for someone who was meant to be stronger than Buu.

I enjoy GT a lot more when I completely forget that it wasn't in the original story, and when I don't go all "Dragon Ball nerd" and rip the plot to shreds. Some people 'round these parts should at least try doing likewise.

I've watched GT through about five times, and despite all the things I say about it, I've had fun each of those times. But ignoring the plotholes doesn't magically make the execution better. Even taken by itself the show has problems.

Honestly, I don't think there are any ideas from GT that I don't like. Even the Super 17 saga sounds good to me on paper. All the problems are in the execution.

Freeza came to Earth. Somehow or another he was able to collect DNA.

Gero wasn't in charge of Cell at that point. His computer was continuing to work on it, and its probes collected Freeza and Cold's DNA when they landed on Earth.

[NUDEoctopus]

Gahhhh, I am so sick of GT arguements. Nobody is going to change anybodys mind here. Either you like it, or you don't. How can you debate if it is "good"? A statement like that is opinion.

[linkdude20002001]

How so? How is it bad on its own merits?

Well, I've tried twice to watch DBGT; the first time was when my little brother bought the first VHS tape, and the second time was when I bought "season" one. Watching the English dub on the VHS tape, I got to episode 22 ("A Grand Problem" + episodes 17~22), but couldn't stand it any longer. With the "Season" Set, I got to episode 19 (in Japanese), but couldn't stand it any longer I always thought it was gonna be awesome...

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I don't hate GT but there were a lot of things to dislike to the point where I can't watch it. I like the idea of making Goku a kid. This idea mixed the adventure aspect of Dragonball with the action of Z. However, Goku doesn't get any handicaps for being a kid in fact he gets stronger by turning into a SSj4; thus defeating the point of making him a kid.

Another thing I couldn't stand was that everyone(EVERYONE) was thrown under the bus to make Goku a god. No one, and I mean no one aside from Goku had a purpose. They might as well just gotten rid of the whole cast. At least some of the minor characters had shining moments in Z.

Another thing I personally didn't like, and this comes from the Goku = god thing, and that was the lack of Goten and Trunks. They make a good team and are fun to watch so to not see them have any interaction at all was very disappointing; let alone a lack of Gotenks.

As for Toriyama himself, I don't know the guy personally but he feels like the George Lucas of anime. If he get's money for it, he'll put his name on it. On top of that, he seems like a very polite way in the sense that even if he doesn't like something, he'll say something nice about it(especially if he's getting royalties). If you look at his opinion of GT and his opinion of DBE...they are almost the same thing. Again, I don't know the guy; this is just based of what I've read.

[Ussj Future Trunks]

There's also no character development whatsoever in GT

Disagreed. Vegeta completed his evolution to hero of Earth. "They're in your hands now Vegeta". Goku gets development but its kind of negative. He's more arrogant than ever before and not the nicest person in SSJ4. Pan develops thanks to her friendship with Giru, she isnt as bratty as in the inital episodes compared to her more heroic role in Baby/Dragons sagas. For the others, what can you really do with them? Trunks never struck me as interesting. Even his future self is static. Goten had an advantage of breaking out of his "Goku clone" persona in Z. Nova Shenron also was interesting.

No one, and I mean no one aside from Goku had a purpose.

Pan and Vegeta beg to differ. And it's no different from the movies. Some of the movies are unwatchable because its just Goku fanwank.

[Bussani]

And it's no different from the movies. Some of the movies are unwatchable because its just Goku fanwank.

I can't tell if this comparison is somehow meant to defend GT or to say it's unwatchable. The fact that GT feels like the movies and filler is my main criticism of it.

[Ussj Future Trunks]

I'm merely saying Gt having Goku be a god is nothing new to Db and not really bad writing.