FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by samuraix123 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:21 pm

Can you give me an example of ''jittering?'' I think I know what you're talking about but I just want to make sure :)
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by kidglov3s » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:25 pm

I notice that with a lot of things on Blu Ray. It makes sense to me because NTSC video runs at 29.97 fps and most film is shot at 24fps, which Blu Ray can support but NTSC or PAL DVD do not.

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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by Levlik » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:08 am

Here's a comparison someone made a while back. It shows the jitter-loss pretty well.

http://www.mediafire.com/?028ql64yb2z4dxi

Just look closely at the Dragon Box footage compared to the Blu-Ray and you'll notice the film on the BD is much less "jumpier" than the Dragon Box. Subtle, yes, but an improvement regardless. It's especially noticeable in this scene when Raditz first looks at Piccolo on his scouter.

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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by Gozar » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:32 am

As nice as the (even better) lack of jitter is, I find that the extra grain makes the Dragon Box look better in my eyes. I understand that the Blu-Rays are sharper, but to me it has way too much grain and ultimately ruins the sharpness for me.
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:02 am

Personally, I like the grain. It makes the video look as old as it should.

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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by kidglov3s » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:14 am

batistabus wrote:Personally, I like the grain. It makes the video look as old as it should.
What bothers me is that a lot of that grain was due to the transfer being struck from second (or further) generation elements as opposed to the original elements. If Toei did a proper HD transfer of their Dragon Box elements a lot of that grain wouldn't be there because it's a sign of the quality loss inherent in Funimation working off of inferior source material.

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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by Metalwario64 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:32 am

Gozar wrote:As nice as the (even better) lack of jitter is, I find that the extra grain makes the Dragon Box look better in my eyes. I understand that the Blu-Rays are sharper, but to me it has way too much grain and ultimately ruins the sharpness for me.
The grain doesn't bother me. What I dislike is that despite sometimes having better colors than the Dragon Boxes (usually when the Dragon Box footage has that overly red tint to it) the darkest colors are muddy, and often darker details are lost from the film being too dark.

One thing I loved about the Dragon Boxes was that there were details that were usually too dark or pitch black in all of FUNimation's previous releases. It was great seeing things that weren't there/were hard to see in FUNimation's footage. The Blu-rays' darkness is a disappointment after that, but it's to be expected since that's how FUNimation's film is.

Also, if they were careful about it, I wouldn't have minded a slight saturation push. The masters as they are now look very dry and pale compared to the Dragon Boxes. But considering FUNimation's track record, it's probably for the best that they didn't. Otherwise they might have gone overboard and we'd have gotten the Double Feature/later orange brick saturation levels again.
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by GizmoKSX » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:13 am

Gotham22 wrote: funimation is really making themselves look really dumb and bad. They need to release something to make them look good again with the DB franchise. Either rerelease the Z dragon boxes for a short period of time or release the DB dragon box or movie dragon box.
The sudden cancellation of the Blu-rays does look bad, but I think FUNi already went above and beyond the call of duty by getting us the DBZ Dragon Boxes at all, and that their collective heart (if not their time and/or budget) was in the right place by attempting to properly remaster the show for Blu-ray. I would be thrilled to have DB and the movies in Dragon Box form (in fact, I'm still holding out—but not stressing out—for them; there's Netflix for the blue bricks in the meantime), but they didn't promise them, so I'm not holding their feet to the fire. My only real gripe is that the orange bricks are back to being the default version of DBZ on shelves, and—while FUNi is partly responsible for the failed remastering—I'm also looking at Toei for their stinginess with their superior masters. Speaking of which...

kidglov3s wrote: What bothers me is that a lot of that grain was due to the transfer being struck from second (or further) generation elements as opposed to the original elements. If Toei did a proper HD transfer of their Dragon Box elements a lot of that grain wouldn't be there because it's a sign of the quality loss inherent in Funimation working off of inferior source material.
Right. We don't want artificial grain-removal because it does ruin the detail, but it would be great to have the less-grainy (and like Metalwario64 said, more detailed in the dark areas) masters used for the Dragon Boxes.
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by Ashura » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:19 am

Re: Blu-Ray grain vs. Dbox grain...

I don't know if there's that much more grain on the BD. The Dragon Boxes are pretty grainy too, it's just that the small size hides a lot of it. Though I would say looking at the video that there's been some minor grain removal on the Dragon Boxes since the video has some softness to it.
Last edited by Ashura on Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by dbboxkaifan » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:24 pm

You guys keep trying to prove that FUNimation's DBZ Blu-rays set of Level are better, possibly, but everyone has a different taste.

The YouTube comparisons Dragon Box Vs. FUNi DBZ Level Blu-rays were ridiculous, YT doesn't maintain the video's original quality.

DB Zed Kai on Blu-rays looks fantastic, I love the softness and no grain, then again, Kai was meant for the newer generation. I wouldn't have minded the grain.

HDTVs and BDPs have the function to remove grain but that makes detail loss so I rather not activate it.
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:32 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:You guys keep trying to prove that FUNimation's DBZ Blu-rays set of Level are better, possibly, but everyone has a different taste.
I'm... not really seeing anyone going overboard with trying to "prove" anything, here. They're expressing the very "opinions" of "taste" that you're talking about.
dbboxkaifan wrote:HDTVs and BDPs have the function to remove grain but that makes detail loss so I rather not activate it.
The built-in features of your consumer-grade hardware don't have anywhere near the level of processing power and granular settings as professional-grade, multi-million-dollar systems.
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by dbboxkaifan » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:45 pm

Never said they were professional, but they do the job, though like I said I'd never use them myself.
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:55 pm

kidglov3s wrote:I notice that with a lot of things on Blu Ray. It makes sense to me because NTSC video runs at 29.97 fps and most film is shot at 24fps, which Blu Ray can support but NTSC or PAL DVD do not.
That might be it. I've heard that DVD doesn't actually support true 24p, so maybe now on the Blu-ray it's running at a slightly higher frame rate.

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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by ect5150 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:12 pm

kidglov3s wrote:most film is shot at 24fps
Is this actually true?

What I mean is this - I hear plenty of people say 30 fps, when they actually mean 29.97 (30000/1001). But is film actually shot at 24 fps, or are people just saying that really meaning 23.976 (24000/1001)?
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by kidglov3s » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:30 pm

ect5150 wrote:
kidglov3s wrote:most film is shot at 24fps
Is this actually true?

What I mean is this - I hear plenty of people say 30 fps, when they actually mean 29.97 (30000/1001). But is film actually shot at 24 fps, or are people just saying that really meaning 23.976 (24000/1001)?
It's true for film, but not for NTSC Video. I found a useful table from a website called TriggerTone:
It’s important to note that NTSC videotape always travels at the same speed, 29.97fps. NTSC videotape cannot travel at 30fps. That said, there are literally 30 frames of NTSC video on the cassette, but they cannot be played back at 30fps due to technological restrictions in the NTSC format.

Time code is a positional reference that we use to synchronize elements together. While there are standard time code rates that are used with NTSC, PAL and film speed elements, they can sometimes be incorrectly matched, which can lead to a lot of confusion. The following time code types (or “flavors” as they are so euphemistically referred) are standard industry time codes. They are listed with their standard corresponding speed:

24 = film speed
30 NDFTC = film speed
23.976 (23.98) = NTSC speed
29.97 NDFTC = NTSC speed
29.97 DFTC = NTSC speed
25 (EBUTC) = PAL speed
Blu-Ray breaks away from NTSC/Pal Standards, unlike DVDs which were either NTSC or PAL, and allows for a faithful representation of 24fps, which is why in some cases motion can seem more realistic. Camera speed is variable. When shooting with the ARRI-S camera I would need to manually set the speed via a dial once I rolled the film and yell "SPEED!", in normal situations setting it to 24. The ARRI-SRII didn't require the dialing as it had pre-sets. In some cases you would shoot at a higher speed (slow motion) or slower speed (fast motion/time elapse), depending upon your desired effect.
Last edited by kidglov3s on Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by MarcFBR » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:33 pm

ect5150 wrote:Is this actually true?

What I mean is this - I hear plenty of people say 30 fps, when they actually mean 29.97 (30000/1001). But is film actually shot at 24 fps, or are people just saying that really meaning 23.976 (24000/1001)?
More and more it's actually 24, with the lack of stuff being made to the old NTSC TV standards. (edit- someone else posted before me, read his for slightly more detailed.)

Although we are starting to see the first bits of that being torn away. Hobbit is being filmed at 48. Avatar 2 is going to be at 48 or 60.



Also, DVD can support 24fps, and many DVDs are in fact 24fps. It just happens most ways to play it won't allow 24 playback from a DVD (I've heard a few newer Blu-ray players may give it an option though, although once again... not sure about that.)
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by Ashura » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:31 pm

What Mark says is true, though what DVDs technically support is 23.976fps (with pulldown flags which tell it to repeat certain frames during playback to go back up to 29.976.) It's close enough that you could say 24 if you just want the shorthand.
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by samuraix123 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:41 pm

If anybody has any doubts that these Blu-rays aren't canceled. I'm sorry
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by Ashura » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:44 pm

With some of the people in this thread... I think it's probably a good thing that it's gigantic.
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Re: FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

Post by dbboxkaifan » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:54 pm

They misused suspended for cancelled? That's not very professional.

Maybe FUNi's really done for with these DBZ Level Blu-rays.

RIP DBZ Levels 2011-2011, lol died just within a few months. It's kind of funny. :P
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