What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

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BlazingFiddlesticks
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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:10 pm

Ironically, I recall watching through the earlier Namek arc again via the Kai dub (It's pretty much the arc I tend to forget about, hence my being screwed now that DBox 2 prices are going up :? ) recently, and I had a funny reaction. While it really is the most desperate moment the heroes ever have had, but I was caught up in how much of a thriller it was being, between all the spying, Ball hunting, and Kai's pacing.

But hmm, dark. Trying to think of what I considered dark when I first saw it, in which case that award definitely goes to Piccolo Daimao. Goku has his first dose of bloodlust, which the plot has no time for as he gets hammered by Piccolo after a couple good shots, and three heroes and the freaking dragon (That really got me) die. Which makes Goku's refusing to stay down in the rematch that much more epic.

In Z, I've got to agree with Cipher in that I like the tone shift in the Sayain fight. It endlessly hypes the Sayains and never quite lets you feel certain that the heroes are prepared, then pumps you up when the gang comes together and you feel like nothing can stop them, then Yamcha ties and it all goes down the toilet. Notice in the anime where the fight starts in the afternoon, but when Goku and Vegeta fly off the sun's setting over the original battlefield? Classic.
theoriginalbilis wrote: - Garlic Jr's theme and the "Demon Mist" theme (both from the Faulconer score.) These compositions are actually pretty good in my opinion, and they do sound rather dark and ominous. They both remind me of the score for the Halloween films.
Seems Falcouner productions were the only ones that realized that Garlic Jr. is a freaking demon. There really are some Halloween vibes there.
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Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.
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BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:Kingdom Piccolo
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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by Super Sonic » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:36 pm

There certainly are quite a few dark moments with Piccolo's takeover, especially in the anime with the scenes with Suno seeing the helplessness. Also the Buu arc with this commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By_e1fuzag0

Kinda have to ask does the last part of that commercial and this thread evoke thoughts of Harvey Dent's speech in The Dark Knight, or that "Light our darkest hour" scene from the 80s TF movie?

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:40 pm

Super Sonic wrote:There certainly are quite a few dark moments with Piccolo's takeover, especially in the anime with the scenes with Suno seeing the helplessness. Also the Buu arc with this commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By_e1fuzag0

Kinda have to ask does the last part of that commercial and this thread evoke thoughts of Harvey Dent's speech in The Dark Knight, or that "Light our darkest hour" scene from the 80s TF movie?
I was waiting for someone to post that promo; best of the whole darn line of them.
JacobYBM wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.
son veku wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:
BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:Kingdom Piccolo
Where is that located?
Canada

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by Rocketman » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:04 pm

I was coming to this thread to post that promo.

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by CaBrPi » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:28 pm

Super Sonic wrote:There certainly are quite a few dark moments with Piccolo's takeover, especially in the anime with the scenes with Suno seeing the helplessness. Also the Buu arc with this commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By_e1fuzag0

Kinda have to ask does the last part of that commercial and this thread evoke thoughts of Harvey Dent's speech in The Dark Knight, or that "Light our darkest hour" scene from the 80s TF movie?
Uh, especially with Optimus Prime doing the narration. Huge TFTM vibe.

But, yeah. I definitely agree with Piccolo Daimao, the Saiyan fight, Namek, and parts of the Boo saga being rather dark. Especially the Piccolo Daimao arc, what with everybody just coming down off of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai.

I can also hardly imagine how shocking the little Raditz mini-arc must've been back during the original run.

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by Super Sonic » Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:54 pm

Now due to this thread, I'm tempted to make an amv of Goku getting the energy for the Spirit Bomb against Buu with "The Touch" playing. If I had the equipment and knowledge on hw to make an amv that is.

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by Saimaroimaru » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:24 am

CaBrPi wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:There certainly are quite a few dark moments with Piccolo's takeover, especially in the anime with the scenes with Suno seeing the helplessness. Also the Buu arc with this commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By_e1fuzag0

Kinda have to ask does the last part of that commercial and this thread evoke thoughts of Harvey Dent's speech in The Dark Knight, or that "Light our darkest hour" scene from the 80s TF movie?
Uh, especially with Optimus Prime doing the narration. Huge TFTM vibe.

But, yeah. I definitely agree with Piccolo Daimao, the Saiyan fight, Namek, and parts of the Boo saga being rather dark. Especially the Piccolo Daimao arc, what with everybody just coming down off of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai.

I can also hardly imagine how shocking the little Raditz mini-arc must've been back during the original run.
Man I just noticed that.

Another dark moment? Whenever Imperfect Cell feeds.

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:51 am

Ah, the Boo arc. I'm hesitant to call it a "dark comedy" because it's very much serious, but there is a fair amount of humour in it. In any case, it's very Dragon Ball, and you can tell that Toriyama was in this comfort zone while drawing it. It's beyond me why anyone would decry it or go so far as to say that it just doesn't feel like part of the series.



More on topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0dMVKOX ... re=related


I recently saw this scene on TV in English for the first time in maybe six years. The voice acting is quite good, and the music really adds to the suspense and terror of the scene.

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:31 am

Staff Officer Black......
''Gotta catch 'em all! Dragon Baaaaall!''

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:20 am

MCDaveG wrote:Staff Officer Black......
Forget everything I said, this. So happy I first read that scene in the manga, it's probably the one time I can remember when the series actually shocked me.
JacobYBM wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.
son veku wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:
BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:Kingdom Piccolo
Where is that located?
Canada

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:44 am

Black really done it! And it's a pitty he was done that quickly by Goku. I would like him as a martial artist/enemy then operating some fat robot.
Also RR army got pretty lame for me, after that skirmish done by Goku at their base.
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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by Nex Carnifex » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:45 pm

I like how Dragon Ball never overuses blood or violence, so when it does it is that much more disturbing and out of the blue, almost creepy how out of place some of the scenes are.

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by Silver Sinspawn » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:07 pm

I'll have to go with Cell absorbing people early on.
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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by DanielGClapp » Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:31 am

The scene I mentioned earlier (Videl Vs. Spopovich) happens to be the only scene from DBZ my mom has seen. Now she thinks it's some evil sadistic show and tells me not to get involved in cult thing like this! :lol:

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by monster » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:39 am

Michsi wrote:
One extremely disturbing scene that comes to mind, though it's only a small panel long, is the one when Gohan notices a family, that had been out camping, had been killed by Babidi and his men. I think we even see the woman cut in half.
I never noticed that before, dead mother cut in half with her entrails hanging out, a dead father with his hand cut off and a dead kid in the background.

Only one panel but still it's always odd to think stuff like Fist of the North Star with all the gore and stuff was made for young kids in Japan.

That scene could have been fleshed out in filler but it would have been far too intense for the anime I guess.

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by Attitudefan » Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:30 pm

Godo wrote:Android 19 and 20's slaughtering which included some pretty grotesque ways of killing.
Another one would be the quick turn from the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai and it's "will power and the power of light, Shônen spirit, fight fight fight!!!!" feeling to Kuririn being killed, Kame-Sennin being killed, Chao-zu being killed, numerous other people being killed. Oh, and also Piccolo Daimao commanding for Tenshinhan's heart being ripped out, and Piccolo Daimao torturing Goku.
Shenron gets murdered :O

I'd say one moment that got me going, "man this show is brutal," is when Nappa takes out Ten, Chioutzu, Krillin, Piccolo and Gohan. They just wait for Goku, and he still might not be enough!
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by sangofe » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:45 am

Nex Carnifex wrote:Dragon Ball is generally optimistic, but have their been any dark scenes, moments, themes, easter eggs, etc? I remember the scene with the sniper shooting the old couple, when the man ran over to his dead wife they shot him to for fun. Then there was Cell absorbing that man denying his money, which is sort of symbolic. I know there have been many kids cartoons with hidden adult messages, just wondering if there was something disturbing in Dragon Ball you picked up on or just thought was disturbing.
I'd say the scene after Kuririn gets killed by Piccolo Daimaoh's henchman is pretty "dark".

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by Vegeta Jr » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:22 am

Probably Cell's absorbtion of the populace, that must really hurt. Especially the rich guy in front of Piccolo.


It's easily the most disturbing moment in the series.

In fact it imprinted on me and a lot of my childhood nightmares were about Imperfect Cell. The strangest though was none Dragon Ball related, it felt more like a series of events rather than a single reccurring dream, as if every week they would find a new way to get me. It was two talking T-Rex (straight out of Jurassic Park). They used to taunt and chase me.

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by SylentEcho » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:13 am

1. Saiyan arc. It really felt like everyone was going to die and the earth was doomed.

2. Namek arc. Freeza and his goons killing entire villages while betraying their trust. Killing children in front of their parents, killing parents in front of their children, killing old people was really disturbing.

3. Cell absorbing so many people especially the guy that tried to pay him, but got absorbed anyway. Just seeing those cities empty with clothes on the street was really dark.

4. Almost all of the Boo arc deaths.

5. Vegeta's death at the hands of Freeza.

6. Ginyu squad dying at the hands of Vegeta especially Ghurd's beheading.

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Re: What is the darkest moment/theme in Dragon Ball?

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:27 pm

While I certainly do agree that the subject matter of the Namek is fairly bleak, there was enough humorous subplots and small victories peppered throughtout the arc that it didn't feel too dark.

The saiyan saga? Now that was bleak.
1. From the moment the gang encounter the saiyans, it was clear that they didn't stand a chance.
2. Episode after episode featured the gang being slowly beaten to death, while the saiyans continually mocked them
3. Even after Goku arrives, Vegeta viciously beats him to a pulp.

But the single image that summed up just how dark that arc was?
Image

Completely disrupting a heart-to-heart moment between a father and his son with a knee to the stomach. Pretty fucking dark, yet also is a case of Toriyama's dark sense of humor.

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