Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:57 pm

There have been some cases in both OG DB and Z where some filler episodes had AMAZING animation. Some of the stuff during the 22nd Martial Arts Tournament training comes to mind, as well as SSJ2 Goku vs. Kid Buu.
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Re: So... Why the different animation styles for the TV seri

Post by GizmoKSX » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:01 am

NitroEX wrote:I think we've all noticed it especially now that we're older. There are episodes that are just beautiful to watch like the one where Freeza get's sliced in half or when 17 get's absorbed. Other times it just looks like poorly drawn fan art.
The episode where Trunks cuts Freeza in half at the end looks great, but it's immediately followed by some not-so-good art in the next episode. I never thought about it as a kid, but now it's a jarring contrast going from the great art in the previous-episode recap into an episode with the infamous "triangle art". The same scene of Trunks cutting Freeza is reanimated at the beginning, and it isn't pretty.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Attitudefan » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:36 pm

Daimao filler got great art and animation but the main plot mainly got this horrible junk!

I don't know why all of a sudden they stated to use the crappier stuff during the important scenes during this arc. It didn't happen before or afterwords.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by sanorin » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:45 pm

Bejiita wrote:It's all down to time and money. The episodes with lower quality animation that look cheap are just that itself, cheap. You can see how 'important' episodes are usually done by the better studios, and episodes which have a lot of stills and talking rather than fighting/action are done by the shit studios. Since the manga was always there for the artists to copy, there's parts which even the worst studio still made ok-ish, but when a bad studio does filler the crap-ness really shows. Note, the episode where they're inside Buu's body, Goku and Vegeta touching cheeks, yeah that episode had some really badly drawn art, and there are many others.
I don't think it's like that. There are a lot of episodes that I would expect to be awesome, but have the shitty drawing/animation. To name a few: Goku fights Android 19, Super Vegeta beats the crap out of Semi-perfect Cell, SSJ2 Gohan beats the crap out of Perfect Cell, SSJ2 Gohan and Cell fire the final Kamehameha, Vegetto beats the crap out of Boo (before going super)... And then, many episodes with lots of filler or not important at all with the nice animation. I think it's just a lottery, depending on how busy the studios were or something.

By the way, sorry for the dumb question: what is that triangle you guys are mentioning? A logo or something of the crappy studio?

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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:14 pm

No, it's just that everything they draw is really pointy, particularly characters' faces, which have a really pointy or nubby chin. But to see it at its really worst, check out episodes where a lot of characters are wearing Saiya-jin armor. The shoulder guards, boots, and chins are all just ridiculously pointy. Vegeta in particular looks really terrible under this animation studio (his widow's peak is twice as large as the rest of his head combined). I believe it's Studio Live, but the animation supervisor is Ebisawa Yukio.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Bejiita » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:52 pm

I know what you mean, Bejita. I was kind of assuming that before I made this topic (time and money).

Ain't it crazy, though, how some of the ok'ish looking episodes had some of the craziest action sequences in them (i.e the fight between Piccolo and No. 17)?
Also in reply to sanorin's post, there are episodes that have the star treatment and others that don't even though I'm sure there's certain episodes that had to be done by a decent studio (like Majin Buu being killed or the last episode), when the pressure was on and time was limited it wasn't too big a deal who did the episode as long as it got done. We as fan's will ponder on why important episodes still got the cheaper studio's to work on it, but to Toei DB was a job, work, and maybe loads of the team did value the importance of the series, but it's just their job and when work gets hectic you just don't care too much. Notice how a lot of the cheap looking episodes might have a few scenes drawn by a better studio within it, I wouldn't be suprised if they redrew what needed doing after seing the finished product.

Another thing about the 17 vs Piccolo fight, the artist who did this episode (known as 'no-shading guy' I believe), may be considered one of the bad studios, but they actually draw the animated fights quite well, the movements look very fluid a lot of the time, and the rounded edge style of this artist is a lot like Toriyama's I think, I do give these guys some credit as they usually get to do the episodes which feature fights a lot of the time, and while the style of the art is more simplistic than some other studio's, they do a good job of animated sequences. Maybe it's due to the fact that they spend less time making the images look pretty and draw more of the 'in-between' the smooth it out.

Just my opinion anyway...
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Attitudefan » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:26 pm

Last House does very good fight scenes and the end up with many of the fighting episodes. I just hate how off model they can be. They were good up to the Android arc and then took a nose dive.

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =7&t=17746 Take a look at this topic.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Bejiita » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:01 pm

Yeah I just read through that link and it explains it all good and well. So Last House is the studio that did 17 vs Piccolo then. Nice to see some others mention at least that they animate well, although the art does have its up's and down's. At first I disliked them but not long ago I started taking a liking to the style of art, some good episodes they did were 186. Gohan Staggers Cell with 2 Punches (minus a few SSJ2 Gohan pictures I didn't like) and 269. The Ultimate Power. Vegitto the Lethal Warrior!, a filler episode but still handled very well.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:01 pm

The problem is that around the time Trunks showed up Uchiyama Masayuki (the animation supervisor) began key animating himself. What's more, by the time Cell showed up only Uchiyama and Ohara Tai'ichirou were the only two credited-by-name key animators. That's when Last House really went down the toilet.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Saiyajin no Tatsujin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:35 pm

Kind of a dumb question for you guys, but I'll ask anyway.

Did the artist(s) who did the animation for all the movies and specials also do episodes for the TV series(s)?

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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Attitudefan » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:38 pm

That would be http://www.kanzentai.com/pro-staff.php?id=maeda_minoru

Maeda Minoru did the movies 1-7. I prefer how it looked in The Dead Zone the most and wish the whole series looked like that (it also looks like that in CHA-LA)

Imagine if it never changed and stayed like that style and animation quality! :drools:

EDIT: Like this:

Image
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:57 pm

Agreed. Goku definitely looks his best right there. Cool and powerful looking without being ridiculously over-muscled or angular.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Saiyajin no Tatsujin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:04 pm

Oh man! I couldn't agree with you guys more. That design of Goku reminds me of how he looked in DragonBall during the last Tenkaichi Budokai. Might be my favorite as well.

I'm assuming a different guy did movies 8-13, and maybe someone different for the GT special?

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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:10 pm

Eh, Maeda's style works as a period-piece (production-wise), but Nakatsuru's era really added depth and strength to the character models.

After Yamamuro's era is over I'd like to see Tate or Hisada try taking over designing and supervising duties. Tate would bring the insanity and Hisada the strength, if his animation back in the day is anything to go by.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Attitudefan » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:55 pm

Saiyajin no Tatsujin wrote:Oh man! I couldn't agree with you guys more. That design of Goku reminds me of how he looked in DragonBall during the last Tenkaichi Budokai. Might be my favorite as well.

I'm assuming a different guy did movies 8-13, and maybe someone different for the GT special?
Yamamuro did the end of Z and a different guy did GT (The big nose big chin guy)
JulieYBM wrote:Eh, Maeda's style works as a period-piece (production-wise), but Nakatsuru's era really added depth and strength to the character models.

After Yamamuro's era is over I'd like to see Tate or Hisada try taking over designing and supervising duties. Tate would bring the insanity and Hisada the strength, if his animation back in the day is anything to go by.
I don't agree with you at all. He tried the most to be like Toriyama to get a true experience of Dragonball. Yamamuro does not follow Toriyama, he does his own style. It looks ugly really.
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:00 pm

Attitudefan wrote: I don't agree with you at all. He tried the most to be like Toriyama to get a true experience of Dragonball. Yamamuro does not follow Toriyama, he does his own style. It looks ugly really.
If I wanted to see Toriyama's telling of a story I'd read the comic. I'm watching the cartoon adaption to see things that aren't in the comic, both in terms of story and visuals. With the way Japanese animation has moved towards showcasing an individual supervisor or team's talents truly great material has created.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:22 pm

I think Yamamuro's style is fantastic. Besides the Studio Cockpit episodes, his were the best looking during the Cell and Buu saga. Not to mention he supervised Movies 8-13. Honestly, the artwork for Movies 5, 6, and 7 weren't all that great.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Attitudefan » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:47 pm

Movies 1, 2 and 3 were the best looking and 4 was great as well.
JulieYBM wrote:
Attitudefan wrote: I don't agree with you at all. He tried the most to be like Toriyama to get a true experience of Dragonball. Yamamuro does not follow Toriyama, he does his own style. It looks ugly really.
If I wanted to see Toriyama's telling of a story I'd read the comic. I'm watching the cartoon adaption to see things that aren't in the comic, both in terms of story and visuals. With the way Japanese animation has moved towards showcasing an individual supervisor or team's talents truly great material has created.
That's a silly comment. I am watching his creation so I would like to see how it should be. By your logic, it means how FOX treated DB with the live action movie was okay, as long as you read the comic of course! People these days...
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:14 pm

Attitudefan wrote: That's a silly comment. I am watching his creation so I would like to see how it should be. By your logic, it means how FOX treated DB with the live action movie was okay, as long as you read the comic of course! People these days...
No, you're watching Toei's creation. That said, Dragon Ball Evolution sucked because it was a bad film.
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Re: Why the different animation styles for the TV series?

Post by Turtle bits » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:58 am

I remember I always hated how it shifted styles during a fight, I remember thinking, gah, another ”low budget” episode.

But now, the ”lesser” episodes look good, they werent as accurate, but certainly by todays standards, even with all the aid computers give now, those are better than most american cartoons now.

Really since so much more was done by hand, IMO, lower quality DB episodes are better than most anything today.

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