Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

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HakkaiBills93
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:37 am

Bruma rabu wrote:Are you saying if you fix gokus gi everything falls into place?
Not only but if in one episode you can get goku's gi ok, piccolo skin ok, sky color ok, bulma hair ok, and the same for main characters ok at the same time you have made most of the work
but before doing any color alteration you firstly have to remove the color cast as removing it will also alter color

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ionutbigiu1
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:57 am

HakkaiBills93 wrote:
Bruma rabu wrote:Are you saying if you fix gokus gi everything falls into place?
Not only but if in one episode you can get goku's gi ok, piccolo skin ok, sky color ok, bulma hair ok, and the same for main characters ok at the same time you have made most of the work
but before doing any color alteration you firstly have to remove the color cast as removing it will also alter color
I think they want to replicate and that's it, after Kai is over when Gohan defeats Cell, there is nothing more to do haha

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Bruma rabu
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:10 am

HakkaiBills93 wrote:Not only but if in one episode you can get goku's gi ok, piccolo skin ok, sky color ok, bulma hair ok, and the same for main characters ok at the same time you have made most of the work
but before doing any color alteration you firstly have to remove the color cast as removing it will also alter color
How do you identify color cast? At first I've been doing cut by cut as i trimmed down and combine scenes. But then y'all mention that color cast can be removed from a whole section as in cutting up the episode into 8 or 7 parts and removing the color cast from each of those parts. They way i approached trying to make the whites white then trying to make the blacks black, but that would change from scene to scene.
For example these 2 scenes here is literally from one scene to the next
Like here gokus and gohans hair has blue in it
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
While in the next scene theres a whole lot of red on gohans hair
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Am i just misinterpreting what color cast is or is this it? Is color cast only whites?
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Bruma rabu
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:19 am

ionutbigiu1 wrote:I think they want to replicate and that's it, after Kai is over when Gohan defeats Cell, there is nothing more to do haha
I don't think lansing is trying to use Kai 1.0 colors, he has been pretty clear that he intends on using Funis blu rays color pallet. Also I am legitimately asking HakkaiBills93 these questions as I am new to all of this.
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ionutbigiu1
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:36 am

Bruma rabu wrote:
ionutbigiu1 wrote:I think they want to replicate and that's it, after Kai is over when Gohan defeats Cell, there is nothing more to do haha
I don't think lansing is trying to use Kai 1.0 colors, he has been pretty clear that he intends on using Funis blu rays color pallet. Also I am legitimately asking HakkaiBills93 these questions as I am new to all of this.
I see , well season sets are as messed up as they can get too .

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Bruma rabu
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:46 am

Bulma is awesome... but chi-chi is best waifu :wink:

HakkaiBills93
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:14 pm

Bruma rabu wrote:
HakkaiBills93 wrote:Not only but if in one episode you can get goku's gi ok, piccolo skin ok, sky color ok, bulma hair ok, and the same for main characters ok at the same time you have made most of the work
but before doing any color alteration you firstly have to remove the color cast as removing it will also alter color
How do you identify color cast? At first I've been doing cut by cut as i trimmed down and combine scenes. But then y'all mention that color cast can be removed from a whole section as in cutting up the episode into 8 or 7 parts and removing the color cast from each of those parts. They way i approached trying to make the whites white then trying to make the blacks black, but that would change from scene to scene.
For example these 2 scenes here is literally from one scene to the next
Like here gokus and gohans hair has blue in it
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
While in the next scene theres a whole lot of red on gohans hair
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Am i just misinterpreting what color cast is or is this it? Is color cast only whites?
the color cast is the tint you have and that affect all colors...it's true that sometimes it can depends on each scenes and the best is to find a compromise like they did in kai 1.0 if you carefully watch, there is very very slight red in the white sometimes but it's at a rate where you didn't really notice it while watching it.

people are allways thinking that you need to white balance only but it's totally wrong, you also need to correct the black too...i didn't use avisynth for color correcting and this kind of treatment need to be learn by yourself but for example if you use photoshop usually you need when you play with curve to select a white point, a grey point and a black point and not a white point only and there a reason for that

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lansing
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:02 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote: here the post where i show db 109 overbright issue.
No matter what you'll do you'll never recover it, so if you use a source that have this kind of issue, you'll just copy the issue on a source which maybe don't have it. that's what i was meaning by not use overbright or crushed black release
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
and here almost the same shot from an old footage episode
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
as you can see it miss a mountain behind piccolo cause to the excessive brightness of the dbox
How the hell are you complaining about an overbrightening issue for the blu-ray season set with a screen shot example of...dragon ball??? Dude we're talking about dragon ball Z, not dragon ball, are you drunk? You are confusing the fuck out of people.
HakkaiBills93 wrote: i don't use random cels but i watch LOT of cels, AND images AND lot of foreign tv recording including broadcast videos SO after seeing them it's easier to say which colors are right and which ones are wrong
Uncalibrated images of cel cannot be a reliable source of color, what is there not to understand? You even proofed it yourself with your flawed comparison of the dbz cards. The same color can varies if taken by different cameras, then what is there left to grasp?
HakkaiBills93 wrote: about the tools you talked about, i didn't use tools to copy colors but software like after effect with plugins that can alter each colors as i want/as i can do , so with all i have seen myself by searching on each release, images , cels and even cards, i alter the colors to make each people having their rights colors, so yes as i can build a profile with this software i can create a kind of palette for color correcting footage. It's not because you ignore how to use something that it didn't exist.

As video work with color channel, if you alter the green color to match piccolo skin correct colors, alter cyan color to match bulma's hair color and sky color, and yellow color to match kintoun or super saiyan hair color and red color to match goku's gi channel etc you'll get the right colors (or will be close to them) as everything using cyan, green etc colors will be affected the same way.
Exactly what plugin are you talking about? Secondary color correction? Selective color? I have used many plugins throughout the years but my ears are still open.
HakkaiBills93 wrote: for example here is two screenshot from very well conserved recording of dragon ball from 1980 that have no tint and didn't seems degraded that make me think that bulma's hair is greenish on dragon ball and just became light blue with very slight green on dragon ball z
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
there is allways green in her hair even if she change her hair color
if you also watch video games color
this one is from the z period
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
and also this one use green on her hair
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
There are no green in Bulma's hair in all of your examples except the last one, they are blue. Put them into photoshop and use the eyedropper tool and they will all show blue. If you think you saw green, you'll need an eye checkup or you may got a fuck up monitor.

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ionutbigiu1
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:33 pm

Let's not get crazy . The point is whatever the way is chosen with color replacement is that you wont have Dragon Ball or GT or movies and whatsoever . Only works for Z or chunks of Z for kai . That is all.

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lansing
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:15 pm

Bruma rabu wrote:Ok from some testing it looks like blurring the reference image improves it, but not by a lot at lest for this shot. From what i can see its give it better uniformity but I'm no video buff. Looking at the rest though it was better it did give better results.https://streamable.com/824ve
Original
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
No blurring done to the reference picture
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Blurring added to the reference picture
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I'm kind of lost at what are you trying to do. Are you matching the dragonbox to look like Kai? And where do that LUT come from? was it created by using the same frame on that scene or was it created from another scene?

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ionutbigiu1
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:22 pm

Good thing we can make Dragon ball Kai , or not... I suppose... since we cannot match Dragon ball OG to Kai xD

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Last edited by ionutbigiu1 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

HakkaiBills93
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:39 pm

lansing wrote: How the hell are you complaining about an overbrightening issue for the blu-ray season set with a screen shot example of...dragon ball??? Dude we're talking about dragon ball Z, not dragon ball, are you drunk? You are confusing the fuck out of people.
when have we talked that only dragon ball z should be corrected and that was the only thing to take in consideration? it's a well known fact that the season sets are overbright and have crushed black , i was meaning that no matter what you do if you take an overbright footage and that you match the color of this overbright footage to another, you'll lose details, and this db 109 is a good example for that . i don't confuse people, if you are unable to understand it's out of my concern
lansing wrote: Uncalibrated images of cel cannot be a reliable source of color, what is there not to understand? You even proofed it yourself with your flawed comparison of the dbz cards. The same color can varies if taken by different cameras, then what is there left to grasp?
where have i said i use ALL cels, all cards, all release? i said i watch lot of them and i know lot are pure jerks but i am also able to see which ones can be good, i mostly said that you rely on power level (aka super battle) cards like a accurate result if they are well calibrate scan.. have you already seen the one with alternate great saiyaman outfit? no matter how you will calibrate it it's pure shit colors... how arrogant you are to talk like if you can't be wrong? if you know how colors are why do you rely on match tools to make it?
lansing wrote:
Exactly what plugin are you talking about? Secondary color correction? Selective color? I have used many plugins throughout the years but my ears are still open.
selective colors that's why i said that if when i play with green color it affect bulma's hair color it only means that there is green in her hair color so even if the dominant color is blue (turquoise) it have green in the colors it's not 100% blue , by doing it several time i am sure that she often change hair colors, in dragon ball kai 1.0 you can see in ep 1 bulma with green hair at the beginning even if not 100% accurate

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by MrWalnut4 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:11 pm

ionutbigiu1 wrote:Good thing we can make Dragon ball Kai , or not... I suppose... since we cannot match Dragon ball OG to Kai xD

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Frankly, these aren't very good corrections in my opinion. Take this one in particular as an example. The brightness is way too high causing Goku's eyes to be on the verge of bleeding over into his skin color. The light behind Tenshinhan is also blooming from crushing the whites. In addition the color cast is actually worse with a ton of green and blue in the whites. The skin tones and clothing colors are pretty far off too. It generally looks really washed out like the season blu rays. In my opinion making more subtle corrections when the film isn't as badly aged is the better option.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Bruma rabu
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:18 pm

lansing wrote:I'm kind of lost at what are you trying to do. Are you matching the dragonbox to look like Kai? And where do that LUT come from? was it created by using the same frame on that scene or was it created from another scene?
I'm only trying to get better colors from the DBox footage for my dbox kai cut. But I have no idea what I'm doing and just doing what ever looks right to me. As for where the LUT it's not from that particular frame but I did use the same frame to make it.
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:25 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:when have we talked that only dragon ball z should be corrected and that was the only thing to take in consideration? it's a well known fact that the season sets are overbright and have crushed black , i was meaning that no matter what you do if you take an overbright footage and that you match the color of this overbright footage to another, you'll lose details, and this db 109 is a good example for that . i don't confuse people, if you are unable to understand it's out of my concern
This talk is about color matching with Dr Dre's tool and the whole discussion is based on color matching dragon ball z! Hello? It doesn't even make sense to match dragon ball because there's ain't no valid reference, there is nothing to match to.

Your images is a good example of overbrightness of dragon ball, not dragon ball z season set, it doesn't prove your claim about the season set.
HakkaiBills93 wrote: where have i said i use ALL cels, all cards, all release? i said i watch lot of them and i know lot are pure jerks but i am also able to see which ones can be good, i mostly said that you rely on power level (aka super battle) cards like a accurate result if they are well calibrate scan.. have you already seen the one with alternate great saiyaman outfit? no matter how you will calibrate it it's pure shit colors... how arrogant you are to talk like if you can't be wrong? if you know how colors are why do you rely on match tools to make it?
How is this even a valid point of an argument? There are often cards in a collection that has isolated cels on top of a different background, but so what? There are literally few hundred others in the collection that uses the actual scenes in the anime. Those are the solid consistent source of reference.
HakkaiBills93 wrote: selective colors that's why i said that if when i play with green color it affect bulma's hair color it only means that there is green in her hair color so even if the dominant color is blue (turquoise) it have green in the colors it's not 100% blue , by doing it several time i am sure that she often change hair colors, in dragon ball kai 1.0 you can see in ep 1 bulma with green hair at the beginning even if not 100% accurate
HakkaiBills93 wrote:if you know how colors are why do you rely on match tools to make it?
Because I don't have years and years of time color correcting every single scenes all by my myself. That is unrealistic. Yes you can spend all your time doing it for fun but you're going nowhere.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:34 pm

Bruma rabu wrote:
lansing wrote:I'm kind of lost at what are you trying to do. Are you matching the dragonbox to look like Kai? And where do that LUT come from? was it created by using the same frame on that scene or was it created from another scene?
I'm only trying to get better colors from the DBox footage for my dbox kai cut. But I have no idea what I'm doing and just doing what ever looks right to me. As for where the LUT it's not from that particular frame but I did use the same frame to make it.
That makes no sense to me, if you already had the HD kai, why would you want to make a kai cut version out of the lower resolution dragonbox?

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:05 pm

lansing wrote: That makes no sense to me, if you already had the HD kai, why would you want to make a kai cut version out of the lower resolution dragonbox?
I don't like the redrawn scenes in Kai 1.0 they look absolutely horrible and Kai FC has a nasty green tint along with it being cropped to 16:9.
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Bruma rabu
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:16 pm

MrWalnut4 wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Damn that looks nice dude.
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:40 pm

ionutbigiu1 wrote:Good thing we can make Dragon ball Kai , or not... I suppose... since we cannot match Dragon ball OG to Kai xD
The pallete's good but it's waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy too bright. There are artifacts everywhere and it's even screwing up the blacks.
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:54 pm

Bruma rabu wrote:
lansing wrote: That makes no sense to me, if you already had the HD kai, why would you want to make a kai cut version out of the lower resolution dragonbox?
I don't like the redrawn scenes in Kai 1.0 they look absolutely horrible and Kai FC has a nasty green tint along with it being cropped to 16:9.
Ok, if you're going to do that, be warn that the amount of time that needs to put into cutting is going to be crazy. I did it to an episode of the season set to sync with kai on my test. It has like 340 cut and took me 12 hours, and I'm doing it very fast already.

For color matching, since your reference now is Kai, it shouldn't have any grain to worry about. If you have any artifact in the result, it's probably coming from the dragon box.

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