Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

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SuperCyan2
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by SuperCyan2 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:16 pm

ionutbigiu1 wrote:Well the point is to do every single episode.
Thanks.

Oh yeah, shame you got banned from ADC.
Bruma rabu wrote:I guess you could say the main goal is to do all episodes but its extremely hard as we are all working with commercial releases and limited reference material. Personally I'm doing doing a kai cut out of the Dbox but i hope i could also of some help in this endeavor.
Hmm, that'll probably be better than Kai 1.0 Replacement Edition™ (with the badly misused Kikuchi BGMs). :P
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ionutbigiu1
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:18 pm

Image

Tien is staring into our soul.

Image

Image
Last edited by ionutbigiu1 on Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lansing
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:20 pm

MrWalnut4 wrote: Not yet but I would be in full support of collaborating with a few users here to draft a new updated guide including instructions for Dr. Dre's tool. Anyone interested can PM me and we can maybe try to stitch something together.
You don't really need a full page guide to learn the program, it only has 3 options.
  • number of color spaces - quality (the higher the better)
  • smoothing parameter - only use when artifact appeared, higher will affect accuracy
  • fast processing mode - resize the images to half the size before running
Run "build color matching model" and then export the LUT after it's done. Ignore the rest because LUT is 1000x faster.

And for regular frame to frame matching, you must align and crop the images with photoshop's "auto align" before passing to the program.

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ionutbigiu1
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:38 pm

SuperCyan2 wrote:
ionutbigiu1 wrote:Well the point is to do every single episode.
Thanks.

Oh yeah, shame you got banned from ADC.
Bruma rabu wrote:I guess you could say the main goal is to do all episodes but its extremely hard as we are all working with commercial releases and limited reference material. Personally I'm doing doing a kai cut out of the Dbox but i hope i could also of some help in this endeavor.
Hmm, that'll probably be better than Kai 1.0 Replacement Edition™ (with the badly misused Kikuchi BGMs). :P
Oh no worries . All is good for me.

Image
Image
Image
Last edited by ionutbigiu1 on Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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MrWalnut4
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by MrWalnut4 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:40 pm

lansing wrote:
MrWalnut4 wrote: Not yet but I would be in full support of collaborating with a few users here to draft a new updated guide including instructions for Dr. Dre's tool. Anyone interested can PM me and we can maybe try to stitch something together.
You don't really need a full page guide to learn the program, it only has 3 options:
  • number of color spaces - quality (the higher the better)
  • smoothing parameter - only use when artifact appeared, higher will affect accuracy
  • fast processing mode - resize the images to half the size before running
Run "build color matching model" and then export the LUT after it's done. Ignore the rest because LUT is 1000x faster.

And for regular frame to frame matching, you must align and crop the images with photoshop's "auto align" before passing to the program.
I still think making a new thread explaining this in more detail and also updating the manual approach would be a good idea since this thread is 6-years-old at this point and the OP is deprecated and no longer updated. The forum policy discourages keeping really old threads like this active and a lot of the early posts and examples are missing pictures as well. I PM'd Ashura asking if I could use some of his OP to make a new thread but I'm not sure when or if he'll respond.

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ect5150
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ect5150 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:28 pm

These results are really nice if you have some kind of reference.

Here's my shot at the DragonBall DragonBox (no Z)---

[spoiler]ImageImage[/spoiler]
Now I'm just looking for a way to get it into AviSynth if possible.
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DB DBox color corrections & DBox color corrections.

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lansing
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:39 pm

ect5150 wrote:These results are really nice if you have some kind of reference.

Here's my shot at the DragonBall DragonBox (no Z)---

[spoiler]ImageImage[/spoiler]
Now I'm just looking for a way to get it into AviSynth if possible.
Use Vapoursynth man, it's 2018 already, Avisynth is dead.

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ect5150
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ect5150 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:15 pm

lansing wrote:Use Vapoursynth man, it's 2018 already, Avisynth is dead.
I might try it this weekend then... does it have just as many plugins? The deinterlace filters? I've got a random grain removal script that I like in AVISynth. It would be a total b*tch for me to try and convert it kind of a thing. I like x264 using MeGUI... which is setup to use AviSynth as well. Those kind of things... I just got engrained with AviSynth.
ect5150
Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
DB DBox color corrections & DBox color corrections.

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lansing
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:30 pm

ect5150 wrote:
lansing wrote:Use Vapoursynth man, it's 2018 already, Avisynth is dead.
I might try it this weekend then... does it have just as many plugins? The deinterlace filters? I've got a random grain removal script that I like in AVISynth. It would be a total b*tch for me to try and convert it kind of a thing. I like x264 using MeGUI... which is setup to use AviSynth as well. Those kind of things... I just got engrained with AviSynth.
It has all the popular scripts and filters ported, and it natively supports multithreading and a tons of color spaces. LUT requires RGBS and I don't even think avisynth supports that.

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Bruma rabu
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:28 am

I went ahead and removed the color cast from each scene individually. Then color matched it to Kai 1.0. I need to fix piccolo some more. Theres also a lot of artifacting.
https://streamable.com/rkp45
https://streamable.com/158zi
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ionutbigiu1
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:47 am

Bruma rabu wrote:I went ahead and removed the color cast from each scene individually. Then color matched it to Kai 1.0. I need to fix piccolo some more. Theres also a lot of artifacting.
https://streamable.com/rkp45
https://streamable.com/158zi
I dont know where to start with what is off, But Raditz\s and overall the green is meesed up .

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Bruma rabu
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:39 am

ionutbigiu1 wrote:I dont know where to start with what is off, But Raditz\s and overall the green is meesed up .
Hmm I dont know maybe my monitor needs calibration but Raditz looks pretty close to his kai colors, at lest to me.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler][spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler][spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
As for the greens it could be the results of the reference shoot I used as there's little no green in it.
Bulma is awesome... but chi-chi is best waifu :wink:

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:22 am

ionutbigiu1 wrote:
Image
on cels his gi looks more blue
Image
Image


another example that the toei cels are wrong

here a toei cels from 290 and 291 as you see and it's almost like the season sets, goku have really dark cyan outfit

Image
Image

here the original cel from the same episodes and.....the cyan look like kai really light, it's not a matter of light even oob look differrent
Image

that's why i have had really hard time when i was trying to match cels colors, there are so many differrent colors that it's hard to know which cels are the one that need to be used

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ect5150
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ect5150 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:47 am

HakkaiBills93 wrote:that's why i have had really hard time when i was trying to match cels colors, there are so many differrent colors that it's hard to know which cels are the one that need to be used
I thought it had been established that animation cels weren't a good source to color match from. The colors on the degrade over time (look at some of the lines... they have faded into brown).
ect5150
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DB DBox color corrections & DBox color corrections.

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ionutbigiu1
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:20 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:
ionutbigiu1 wrote:
Image
on cels his gi looks more blue
Image
Image


another example that the toei cels are wrong

here a toei cels from 290 and 291 as you see and it's almost like the season sets, goku have really dark cyan outfit

Image
Image

here the original cel from the same episodes and.....the cyan look like kai really light, it's not a matter of light even oob look differrent
Image

that's why i have had really hard time when i was trying to match cels colors, there are so many differrent colors that it's hard to know which cels are the one that need to be used
There are countless frames and situations where gi is dark ,bright ,blue dark, blue purple ,light purple ,light blue .just find the middle way

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:16 pm

not such differrence , it's not the same color, this one look as kai final chapter
@lansing
here cels for dragon balls
https://www.facebook.com/pg/cellulos/ph ... 9509055663
and an album with dragon ball z cels
https://www.facebook.com/pg/cellulos/ph ... 9852828963

interesting things
the same scene two differrent cels and differrent colors
toei vod
Image
other cel
Image

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lansing
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:30 am

After many many testings the past couple of days, I have come to a conclusion that the palette matching method cannot be done with one single LUT that was made up of accumulative color.

After I had added 30 color into my color palette image, I had started noticing the inaccuracy on the result, noticeably on Gohan's skin color of episode 142. No matter how many ways I tried the color of his skin would always look red.

The reason for that is a LUT is basically a combination of HSL adjustment + rgb curve, each color adjustment from my palette is represented by a point on the rgb curve. So imagine you have 30 points on a curve that would be moved around. (I don't even think you can put 30 points on a curve.) And eventually, the point adjustments are going to overlap each other, giving wrong results. The more points on the curve, the more restrictions.

Here is a comparison on the accumulative palette I have vs a Gohan-only color palette match:
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/WGGNNN8X

So logically we're going to need to go with scene by scene color palette matching.

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Bruma rabu
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:46 am

lansing wrote:After many many testings the past couple of days, I have come to a conclusion that the palette matching method cannot be done with one single LUT that was made up of accumulative color.

After I had added 30 color into my color palette image, I had started noticing the inaccuracy on the result, noticeably on Gohan's skin color of episode 142. No matter how many ways I tried the color of his skin would always look red.

The reason for that is a LUT is basically a combination of HSL adjustment + rgb curve, each color adjustment from my palette is represented by a point on the rgb curve. So imagine you have 30 points on a curve that would be moved around. (I don't even think you can put 30 points on a curve.) And eventually, the point adjustments are going to overlap each other, giving wrong results. The more points on the curve, the more restrictions.

Here is a comparison on the accumulative palette I have vs a Gohan-only color palette match:
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/WGGNNN8X

So logically we're going to need to go with scene by scene color palette matching.
What if you do it by parts? Like If you have a whole scene that takes place in the world tournament you would use one LUT but once they move locations you use another.
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ionutbigiu1
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:06 am

lansing wrote:After many many testings the past couple of days, I have come to a conclusion that the palette matching method cannot be done with one single LUT that was made up of accumulative color.

After I had added 30 color into my color palette image, I had started noticing the inaccuracy on the result, noticeably on Gohan's skin color of episode 142. No matter how many ways I tried the color of his skin would always look red.

The reason for that is a LUT is basically a combination of HSL adjustment + rgb curve, each color adjustment from my palette is represented by a point on the rgb curve. So imagine you have 30 points on a curve that would be moved around. (I don't even think you can put 30 points on a curve.) And eventually, the point adjustments are going to overlap each other, giving wrong results. The more points on the curve, the more restrictions.

Here is a comparison on the accumulative palette I have vs a Gohan-only color palette match:
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/WGGNNN8X

So logically we're going to need to go with scene by scene color palette matching.
This sounds like a titanic job and damn.there has to be a better way. We must find de whey. For the entire series, this is not so reliable. But damn it's a shame a single one lut cannot work on the entire series.

@lansing .Nevertheless if you here thing to do a tutorial, we will be excited to read.

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lansing
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:34 pm

ionutbigiu1 wrote:
This sounds like a titanic job and damn.there has to be a better way. We must find de whey. For the entire series, this is not so reliable. But damn it's a shame a single one lut cannot work on the entire series.

@lansing .Nevertheless if you here thing to do a tutorial, we will be excited to read.
It's just a little different from my older plan with the Kai to Season matching, which was also planned for scene by scene anyway.

The most annoying works for this is that we'll need to make two color palettes for every scene for 300+ scenes, both as the source and reference, and then for every palette we'll need to put in the color of the characters that was in the image. It wouldn't be that bad if we could automate them.

So everything is pointing back to the needs of an online library, and this time the library + an algorithm that can do those works. First we'll need a table in a library that stores all the cels with information about each cel, such as characters that were in it and the episode number of the cel. And then we'll make another table for the character that holds the info of the color palette. This will create a searchable library.

The second part of this is to create a table that stores the episode numbers, scene numbers and the characters that has appeared for the scene.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

With all these combined we'll have a library that can build custom color palette for each scene of every episode. For example, I have a scene in episode 101 of Kai that has goten and gohan, so I search the library for them. Once I picked the ones I like from the result, I can then customly choose within the character's color palette, for example I can uncheck the color of the belt and belt shadow because they doesn't show up in the scene. Everything is click click click so it should be easy and fast.

After that the manual part that I need to do is to take sample color from the Kai scene according to the chosen color palette, it just like filling up a form. Then all the rest of the stuff can be automated: the color palette will be auto appended for both source and reference, and then color palette images will be build automatically ready to be use for the color matching program.

It should be really simple to build it up once the library was established, but first we'll need a database designer to draw out this whole thing. And of course, the more cels we have the stronger the library.

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