Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Son_Gohan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:51 am

Scsigs wrote:
Jesta' wrote:How do I make dark details visible like this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUjOoqjOpD0
Get the film masters & remaster it frame-by-frame.
Or just apply a video-editing light filter to the Dragon Box footage:

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:06 am

Son_Gohan wrote:
Scsigs wrote:
Jesta' wrote:How do I make dark details visible like this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUjOoqjOpD0
Get the film masters & remaster it frame-by-frame.
Or just apply a video-editing light filter to the Dragon Box footage:
it's not a light filter as it don't lead to overbrightness , just watch yours , the white begin to crush and in the 3rd one you have green tint in the dark

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:50 am

Image
doing another variant of what he did but i allways think it's wrong and too far enlighten in the dark area
for me, if i am not wrong the right balance to keep as much details without revealing too much blocks or things like that should be a little like that
Image

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:13 pm

Your cc is much better than the one in the video. It also looks like they altered the footage on the left. The blacks are way too crushed. Not sure what source they used but if it was the DBox, they altered it to make theirs stand out.
Heres an unaltered shoot from DBox
Image
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Jesta' » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:08 pm

https://imgur.com/a/mWZRe

You guys still haven't told me how to do this...

Y'know make it look more like the cels...
Goku stands out and isn't faded with the background in the image to the left.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:59 pm

Scsigs wrote:Get the film masters & remaster it frame-by-frame.
Nah, I think that's some form of Dragon Box CC.
I realise you're probably joking here, but a lot of people have fallen for Enigmo's lies before, so let's try to prevent that misinformation from spreading, please.
Scsigs wrote:
Bruma rabu wrote:
Scsigs wrote: Is that even him? I don't think that is.
I'm only guessing, but the account was made like over a month ago only posted 1 thing and it was one of enigmos videos that was posted today.
I thought it was just a guy who liked Enigmo's work. Enigmo also seems to have burned some bridges with some of the admins here & got his account that he had here banned after some kind of altercation, I imagine. I mean, like Enigmo or not, his work speaks for itself with how good it is. This is also a forum for correcting footage colors, so it's not unprecedented that someone brings up questions about someone else's work.
To cut a long story short, Enigmo is a highly toxic individual, who often uses several different accounts and pseudonyms. Enigmo, CNXToonami... Once, he masqueraded as Sangofe, another time he did so as Kei17...
So sure, it could be an Enigmo alt account, but we can't really be sure at the moment. Probably best to give them the benefit of the doubt, since duplicate accounts is an issue to be dealt with by mods, and there's nothing concrete to point to this person being Enigmo.
Son_Gohan wrote:Or just apply a video-editing light filter to the Dragon Box footage:
That's far too bright.
Jesta' wrote:https://imgur.com/a/mWZRe

You guys still haven't told me how to do this...

Y'know make it look more like the cels...
Goku stands out and isn't faded with the background in the image to the left.
Basically, you'd probably need some kind of curves editor to boost the darks a little. But, boost them too much and stuff like Goku's hair will brighten up, and some video compression noise will break through. And if you're not careful, you'll also overbrighten the mids or brights, which will crush the lights.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Scsigs » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:45 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Scsigs wrote:Get the film masters & remaster it frame-by-frame.
Nah, I think that's some form of Dragon Box CC.
I realise you're probably joking here, but a lot of people have fallen for Enigmo's lies before, so let's try to prevent that misinformation from spreading, please.
Scsigs wrote:
Bruma rabu wrote: I'm only guessing, but the account was made like over a month ago only posted 1 thing and it was one of enigmos videos that was posted today.
I thought it was just a guy who liked Enigmo's work. Enigmo also seems to have burned some bridges with some of the admins here & got his account that he had here banned after some kind of altercation, I imagine. I mean, like Enigmo or not, his work speaks for itself with how good it is. This is also a forum for correcting footage colors, so it's not unprecedented that someone brings up questions about someone else's work.
To cut a long story short, Enigmo is a highly toxic individual, who often uses several different accounts and pseudonyms. Enigmo, CNXToonami... Once, he masqueraded as Sangofe, another time he did so as Kei17...
So sure, it could be an Enigmo alt account, but we can't really be sure at the moment. Probably best to give them the benefit of the doubt, since duplicate accounts is an issue to be dealt with by mods, and there's nothing concrete to point to this person being Enigmo.
I see what you're saying. Any basic video editor, if you know how, can be used to clear up frames of a video or do color correction. And, yeah, I was kidding about that. I was being highly sarcastic there, since that'd be a monumental task for any random person to do.

Huh. No wonder Sangofe was kind of a pain in the ass when it came to discussing DB's English dubs (unless that was a while ago, then whatever). Enigmo only focuses on the original Japanese dubs from what I've seen &, from what I've seen, tends to not care about the dubs whatsoever, which is a shame since the newer dubs (or, really, anything after Z's) are really good in terms of quality. I don't really know to think of him as completely deceitful, since he seems to have good recordings of the Japanese DBZ audio without the random alerts, which some claim are just audio edits, but I don't know. If he's prone to be really problematic, I see that too, since his manner of saying things through his YouTube channels is pretty...concerning to say the least. He definitely approaches some things from the perspective of a troll, which I don't think is really good for wanting anyone taking you seriously.
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:15 pm

Scsigs wrote:Huh. No wonder Sangofe was kind of a pain in the ass when it came to discussing DB's English dubs (unless that was a while ago, then whatever).
Hey now, be nice.
I don't think Enigmo ever impersonated Sangofe here on Kanzenshuu, but he's done so elsewhere.
Scsigs wrote:Enigmo only focuses on the original Japanese dubs from what I've seen &, from what I've seen, tends to not care about the dubs whatsoever, which is a shame since the newer dubs (or, really, anything after Z's) are really good in terms of quality. I don't really know to think of him as completely deceitful, since he seems to have good recordings of the Japanese DBZ audio without the random alerts, which some claim are just audio edits, but I don't know.
It's just edits, probably using cleaned-up fansub audio in some capacity. (With some work, fansub audio can be used in brief sections to bridge gaps; it takes a lot of work, but you can just about make it blend in with a lot of work, if you can get your hands on an exceptionally high-quality stuff. In fact, I'm trying to track fansubs down to see if any of it might be of use to Sabat. It's very needle in haystack, but who knows)
Scsigs wrote:If he's prone to be really problematic, I see that too, since his manner of saying things through his YouTube channels is pretty...concerning to say the least. He definitely approaches some things from the perspective of a troll, which I don't think is really good for wanting anyone taking you seriously.
Well, ultimately, while I don't think here and now is the time or the place to discuss Enigmo, his antics, or really, the Japanese audio situation at all, suffice it to say, in the experiences I've had in my involvement in the effort to get the audio into Chris Sabat's hands, Enigmo was a recurring problem, not just from the perspective of audio stuff, but from the fact he's a profoundly nasty individual, who's done some serious bullying in the past, including to Kei, and some friends of mine.

Anyway, the long and short of all this is that Enigmo is a troll who's best ignored. The more time spent talking about him, and paying attention to him, the more time we're wasting on someone who's really not worth our time. Besides, I think this is pretty offtopic; we're mostly talking about audio and Enigmo; this is a thread about CCing video. :lol:
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Scsigs » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:19 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Scsigs wrote:Huh. No wonder Sangofe was kind of a pain in the ass when it came to discussing DB's English dubs (unless that was a while ago, then whatever).
Hey now, be nice.
I don't think Enigmo ever impersonated Sangofe here on Kanzenshuu, but he's done so elsewhere.
Scsigs wrote:Enigmo only focuses on the original Japanese dubs from what I've seen &, from what I've seen, tends to not care about the dubs whatsoever, which is a shame since the newer dubs (or, really, anything after Z's) are really good in terms of quality. I don't really know to think of him as completely deceitful, since he seems to have good recordings of the Japanese DBZ audio without the random alerts, which some claim are just audio edits, but I don't know.
It's just edits, probably using cleaned-up fansub audio in some capacity. (With some work, fansub audio can be used in brief sections to bridge gaps; it takes a lot of work, but you can just about make it blend in with a lot of work, if you can get your hands on an exceptionally high-quality stuff. In fact, I'm trying to track fansubs down to see if any of it might be of use to Sabat. It's very needle in haystack, but who knows)
Scsigs wrote:If he's prone to be really problematic, I see that too, since his manner of saying things through his YouTube channels is pretty...concerning to say the least. He definitely approaches some things from the perspective of a troll, which I don't think is really good for wanting anyone taking you seriously.
Well, ultimately, while I don't think here and now is the time or the place to discuss Enigmo, his antics, or really, the Japanese audio situation at all, suffice it to say, in the experiences I've had in my involvement in the effort to get the audio into Chris Sabat's hands, Enigmo was a recurring problem, not just from the perspective of audio stuff, but from the fact he's a profoundly nasty individual, who's done some serious bullying in the past, including to Kei, and some friends of mine.

Anyway, the long and short of all this is that Enigmo is a troll who's best ignored. The more time spent talking about him, and paying attention to him, the more time we're wasting on someone who's really not worth our time. Besides, I think this is pretty offtopic; we're mostly talking about audio and Enigmo; this is a thread about CCing video. :lol:
K. Hence why I added the disclaimer of a while ago.

Wow. Honestly, why not just get the audio on official releases? Toei's not doing it, so why not give it to the next best source? In terms of his tracks for the audio, they don't seem like he bridged any gaps, but then again, it could either be that, or he really did track down alternate recordings. Either way, he seems pretty steadfast in his convictions that they're authentic, which could be if he has the right connections, like how he's seemingly gotten transfers of some of the film in the past.

Yeah, I get ya. I've been reading through a thread he started a few years ago & he does seem really problematic in his personality about his work for his personal alterings of the show. This wasn't all unexpected, but it does show where his headspace seemingly goes to with getting a bit of a swelled head, like when he more than likely altered how someone asked him something to raise his own ego in the most stupid of ways. He exhibits the same behavior in his YouTube videos, not even really open to just a conversation about things, or he makes posts that don't really make any sense, like how I recently responded to someone on one of his videos & he responded to me, "how's the music?" & I had no idea of what he was talking about, though maybe I complained about the music he used in a past video of his, I don't know. Considering he's used a lot of Rap songs, it wouldn't surprise me if that's what that context was & I just forgot. Either way, I agree, but it's not like I was the one to bring him up, I just think to accuse someone who's new who liked one of his videos enough to wonder how he did something of being him is a bit much, no matter his personal history with this site or anything else he's done. If he isn't known to try to set up duplicate accounts on this site, I don't think it's fair to accuse someone of this. Anyway, I'm content to just letting this thread get back on track.
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Son_Gohan » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:00 am

HakkaiBills93 wrote: it's not a light filter as it don't lead to overbrightness , just watch yours , the white begin to crush and in the 3rd one you have green tint in the dark
Robo4900 wrote: That's far too bright.
That was 50%, the default setting.

Lowering the power of the 3rd filter to 1%, looks like this:

Image

Lowering the opacity, brightness, or playing with color settings could make it easier on the eyes as well. But as far as bringing out the colors and lineart, it appears to achieve that well enough.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by MrWalnut4 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:51 am

Jesta' wrote:https://imgur.com/a/mWZRe

You guys still haven't told me how to do this...

Y'know make it look more like the cels...
Goku stands out and isn't faded with the background in the image to the left.
Well to be frank, it looks nothing like the cels. Not to mention how washed out and overly bright the correction is.
[spoiler]Image
Image[/spoiler]
But to increase the contrast in the blacks you basically lower the end of an adjustment curve while raising it just above it. It's easier to show an example than describing it in text:
[spoiler]Image
ImageImage[/spoiler]

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:26 am

it's not what enigmo did he just lower the neutral a lot so it washed out every color (as the so called dark details here are in the blue channel) and he increase the black color to keep the black color intact very black (it's an interesting approach), but it's far than how it should look
i recently have watch the steve franko behind the scenes of levels sets and it is the colors as they are mean to be view
for color match he use the teleprint taf , so his color correction is the original colors of the film print restoration , trying to match things like cels is useless, cels aren't the final product, or you should to find cels shot on films (not the ones with wrong background or other kind of things)

so if enigmo want to do his washed out color correction it's his taste , as i talked with him he tried to get same kind of things of hokuto no ken remaster (but it lack saturation)
but talking about color correction it's not how the film was print

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:10 pm

Rudimentary CC no color matching , just overall processing of the reels and some here and there fixes.

Image

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ionutbigiu1 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:27 pm

And this is BS Fuji of Z Japan. Quite nice to see that these are workable . And they do have a nice nostalgic touch with all the imperfections like glue, dirt and whatnot.

Image

Image

Image

Nasty but beautiful.

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:11 am

Enigmo have thé broadcast audio not fansub audios ..hé have also some alternative audios like for dbz97 (tokai have announcement not his and it Can t bé an édit) anyway his goal isnt trying to match colors or color correcting like we want to do
His goal his this kind if desaturated colors ...hé has à shit personality but hé is better skilled than some people here that think having thé rights colors.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:59 pm

For anyone wondering, I'm still here, building the website for the color matching library.

Took me a some time to learn a new php framework and designing a database. You know it takes time for things to click in your head. I should be able to put up a demo page in a couple of days for feedback.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:35 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:Enigmo have thé broadcast audio not fansub audios ..hé have also some alternative audios like for dbz97 (tokai have announcement not his and it Can t bé an édit) anyway his goal isnt trying to match colors or color correcting like we want to do
His goal his this kind if desaturated colors ...hé has à shit personality but hé is better skilled than some people here that think having thé rights colors.
First off, Enigmo is a liar who spends basically all his time trying to trick people. He uses tiny nuggets of truth, but if you know the full story of what he's referring to, you'd know the truth in there is just in minor details that some people may have a vague idea of, which makes his stories seem more believable. This is consistently how he behaves, and believing his claims is foolish at best. If someone tells you your flies are down, when they're clearly not, 100 times in a row, then they tell you your shirt is on backwards, would you begin telling everyone else that your shirt is on backwards?

Second off, the last time I saw broadcast audio being discussed on Kanzenshuu, it turned nasty, and the thread got closed down. If you really must debate this subject with me, just send me a PM; let's not bother everyone else with this. If nothing else, as I said before, we're getting very off-topic.
Scsigs wrote:Wow. Honestly, why not just get the audio on official releases? Toei's not doing it, so why not give it to the next best source? In terms of his tracks for the audio, they don't seem like he bridged any gaps, but then again, it could either be that, or he really did track down alternate recordings. Either way, he seems pretty steadfast in his convictions that they're authentic, which could be if he has the right connections, like how he's seemingly gotten transfers of some of the film in the past.
He has no film transfers, he has no audio I haven't already ensured is in Sabat's hands, he's just a liar trying to get attention.
Again, Enigmo is a consistent liar; deciding to believe one given thing he's said just because there isn't concrete evidence to prove it isn't true is foolish, so it's best to just ignore him.

But also again, broadcast audio tends to be a tetchy subject. If you have anything more you wish to discuss on this matter, shoot me a PM; this thread is about colour-correction, not broadcast audio.
Scsigs wrote:If he isn't known to try to set up duplicate accounts on this site, I don't think it's fair to accuse someone of this. Anyway, I'm content to just letting this thread get back on track.
I think he has set up duplicate accounts on this site before, but yes, we're getting off track. If he is Enigmo, he'll eventually be found out and banned; if he's not Enigmo, then we'd best not harass him unnecessarily. Either way, it's not our problem; this is something the mods will deal with, if anyone at all.
MrWalnut4 wrote:Well to be frank, it looks nothing like the cels. Not to mention how washed out and overly bright the correction is.
[spoiler]Image
Image[/spoiler]
But to increase the contrast in the blacks you basically lower the end of an adjustment curve while raising it just above it. It's easier to show an example than describing it in text:
[spoiler]Image
ImageImage[/spoiler]
Yeah, that looks quite nice.

Ultimately, I don't think trying to make things look like the cels is a particularly useful way of going about CCing; much better to just do what you're suggesting, and get some additional dark detail out. Maybe do the reverse to the brights too(The DBoxes are pretty overbright, so they could do with having the top end brought down a little), and then all you need to do is neutralise the colour cast, and you've got a really great-looking version of the show.

Though, I've gotta say, you have to be very careful with de-crushing blacks, since if you're not careful, you'll expose a lot of compression artifacts. You can see a bit of that in the image you put in there; maybe it won't be noticeable in motion, maybe it will. If it is, you'll have to dial this back a bit, or move the curve's bottom-end up a little.
The same can probably happen with decrushing the whites too, actually, though since most people tend to either overbrighten their CCs, or not bother to fix the white crushing, this issue doesn't get talked about anywhere near as much.
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Bruma rabu » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:16 pm

lansing wrote:For anyone wondering, I'm still here, building the website for the color matching library.

Took me a some time to learn a new php framework and designing a database. You know it takes time for things to click in your head. I should be able to put up a demo page in a couple of days for feedback.
That's great I can't wait to see it!
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by SuperCyan2 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:47 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:Enigmo have thé broadcast audio not fansub audios ..hé have also some alternative audios like for dbz97 (tokai have announcement not his and it Can t bé an édit) anyway his goal isnt trying to match colors or color correcting like we want to do
His goal his this kind if desaturated colors ...hé has à shit personality but hé is better skilled than some people here that think having thé rights colors.
Robo4900 wrote:First off, Enigmo is a liar who spends basically all his time trying to trick people. He uses tiny nuggets of truth, but if you know the full story of what he's referring to, you'd know the truth in there is just in minor details that some people may have a vague idea of, which makes his stories seem more believable. This is consistently how he behaves, and believing his claims is foolish at best. If someone tells you your flies are down, when they're clearly not, 100 times in a row, then they tell you your shirt is on backwards, would you begin telling everyone else that your shirt is on backwards?
I don't know who this Enigmo guy is but looks as though he did a number on you two guys. Neat thread. :)
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:19 am

Updating my status, I spent the last couple of days trying to put the site up, got into many issues here and there. And then when I finally about to get it all working, I found out that the database software that my web provider uses was outdated...Then I talked to the support and they said I would need to upgrade my plan in order to get the software upgrade. Are you serious? For a simple upgrade? Fuck it, I'm moving to another provider.

So I'm going to need more time to migrate and set up again.

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