Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

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Zestanor
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Zestanor » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:50 pm

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:32 pm
Not sure about any digital cleanup. I don't think they'd bother with the effort it would take to do for hundreds or thousands of cels. I think that they just did a quick and clean high-res scan before returning them to whatever vault these cels are archived. Perhaps the cels are just in immaculate shape?
Maybe I’m not understanding what these cels are. Why would there be hundreds of thousands of them? Don’t they trash/recycle cels after use?

It seems like they had a few (not hundreds of thousands unless I’m mistaken?) that didn’t get trashed which they scanned digitally, and touched up a little bit for download.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:13 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:50 pm
ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:32 pm
Not sure about any digital cleanup. I don't think they'd bother with the effort it would take to do for hundreds or thousands of cels. I think that they just did a quick and clean high-res scan before returning them to whatever vault these cels are archived. Perhaps the cels are just in immaculate shape?
Maybe I’m not understanding what these cels are. Why would there be hundreds of thousands of them? Don’t they trash/recycle cels after use?

It seems like they had a few (not hundreds of thousands unless I’m mistaken?) that didn’t get trashed which they scanned digitally, and touched up a little bit for download.
Yeah that seems right, maybe I'm just blowing smoke xD
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Zestanor » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:27 pm

No worries; I do it all the time and people usually don’t call me out for it!

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ArmenianPepsi
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:36 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:27 pm
No worries; I do it all the time and people usually don’t call me out for it!
Either way I'm grateful we even have access to such high quality scans. Weather you want to reference them for some CC projects, or just to look at and appreciate all the artistry that went into a single frame of animation. :D
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Trachta10 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:26 am

Zestanor wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:08 am
ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:32 pm
Zestanor wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:52 pm
Dang. The process of photography somehow adds a lot of depth to those otherwise flat looking cels.
I got that seem feeling too. Maybe it's the background? The colors? Or maybe just that we aren't used to seeing these particular frames of animation in such clarity and quality that's throwing us off?

Here is what the frame of General Blue looks like from the DBox (I think it's right, Episode 55 right?) (480p)

https://i.gyazo.com/0c88c28650bd0caa2a ... a7360.png

And just for convenience here is the nice HD version again.

https://i.imgur.com/zCiVuz1.png
Tenshinhan vs Yamcha looks more like I would expect: using a variety of lines widths and pressures, with rough boundaries between cels. Either it's just the case that many episodes were animated with invariable fat lines, or some of these have been inconsistently "touched up"; perhaps carefully digitally traced. Tenshinhan vs Tsurusennin is very soft. Cell and 16 looks like Kai.

But Tenshinhan vs Yamcha looks very good.
maybe that's because I upscale it,

these are high res cels, (no upscaled but the colors were altered by toei)
Image
Image
Image


this one has original colors
Image

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Zestanor » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:53 pm

Ah, very nice. Though, that last one is a reminder that the cel colors were never intended to be the colors. They often used red lines which appear brown or black on film.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Ajay » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:11 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:53 pm
Ah, very nice. Though, that last one is a reminder that the cel colors were never intended to be the colors. They often used red lines which appear brown or black on film.
This isn't true. The red lines you're seeing are just where they've faded over the years due to exposure. They're black originally.
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:34 pm

Trachta10 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:26 am
Zestanor wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:08 am
ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:32 pm

I got that seem feeling too. Maybe it's the background? The colors? Or maybe just that we aren't used to seeing these particular frames of animation in such clarity and quality that's throwing us off?

Here is what the frame of General Blue looks like from the DBox (I think it's right, Episode 55 right?) (480p)

https://i.gyazo.com/0c88c28650bd0caa2a ... a7360.png

And just for convenience here is the nice HD version again.

https://i.imgur.com/zCiVuz1.png
Tenshinhan vs Yamcha looks more like I would expect: using a variety of lines widths and pressures, with rough boundaries between cels. Either it's just the case that many episodes were animated with invariable fat lines, or some of these have been inconsistently "touched up"; perhaps carefully digitally traced. Tenshinhan vs Tsurusennin is very soft. Cell and 16 looks like Kai.

But Tenshinhan vs Yamcha looks very good.
maybe that's because I upscale it,

these are high res cels, (no upscaled but the colors were altered by toei)
Image
Image
Image


this one has original colors
Image
Wow those look stunning. Especially the fiery forest one with Gohan and Krillin. Really like the color choices.
First time Dragon Ball fan as of March 2020. Still learning the ropes. Nothing much else to say,
  • Preferred viewing order = DB ---> Kai ---> Super + Relevant movies (DB subbed, all others dubbed)
  • Favorite Arcs = Red Ribbon Army, Saiyan Arc, Frieza Arc, 23rd Budoukai, Piccolo Daimao
  • Favorite Characters Besides Goku/Vegeta = General Blue, Pilaf Gang, Crane Hermit, Bulma, Yamcha, Krillin, Frieza, Ginyu Force, Tournament Announcer, Lunch, Broly, and Piccolo

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by jaisonas » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:54 am

Keep in mind that the first 3 shots come from 35mm film shots of the cels and not a direct cell scan.
Also known as "[EncoderAnon] and his shitty HxH encode"

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:57 pm

jaisonas wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:54 am
Keep in mind that the first 3 shots come from 35mm film shots of the cels and not a direct cell scan.
Oh wow. Well color me surprised :)
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  • Preferred viewing order = DB ---> Kai ---> Super + Relevant movies (DB subbed, all others dubbed)
  • Favorite Arcs = Red Ribbon Army, Saiyan Arc, Frieza Arc, 23rd Budoukai, Piccolo Daimao
  • Favorite Characters Besides Goku/Vegeta = General Blue, Pilaf Gang, Crane Hermit, Bulma, Yamcha, Krillin, Frieza, Ginyu Force, Tournament Announcer, Lunch, Broly, and Piccolo

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Zestanor » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:20 pm

jaisonas wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:54 am
[
Keep in mind that the first 3 shots come from 35mm film shots of the cels and not a direct cell scan.
Why is the first one 35mm instead of 16?

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by jaisonas » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:34 am

Zestanor wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:20 pm
jaisonas wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:54 am
[
Keep in mind that the first 3 shots come from 35mm film shots of the cels and not a direct cell scan.
Why is the first one 35mm instead of 16?
Thats how toei shot their promo shots. Its easy to spot cause of the very fine grain of 35mm film they use. 16mm film would have been a lot noisier
Also known as "[EncoderAnon] and his shitty HxH encode"

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by jaisonas » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:39 am

If you scroll down toei's twitter you can find a lot of these shots. It gives you a pretty good idea of what the show might have looked if it was shot on 35mm
Also known as "[EncoderAnon] and his shitty HxH encode"

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 am

jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:39 am
If you scroll down toei's twitter you can find a lot of these shots. It gives you a pretty good idea of what the show might have looked if it was shot on 35mm
Man their scanner must be really bad, the color reproduction is atrocious.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by lansing » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:31 am

Trachta10 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:26 am
this one has original colors
Image
Is it your scan? How do you know it's accurate? I have seen so many poor scans online (like 99% of the time) throughout my research of getting accurate scan. People either scanned them with some cheap ass scanners that produced wrong color, or they didn't know how to calibrate their scanners.

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by jaisonas » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:01 am

lansing wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 am
jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:39 am
If you scroll down toei's twitter you can find a lot of these shots. It gives you a pretty good idea of what the show might have looked if it was shot on 35mm
Man their scanner must be really bad, the color reproduction is atrocious.
Considering they have to convert the negative colours into positive, i think thats just toei being incompetent at colors as usual
Also known as "[EncoderAnon] and his shitty HxH encode"

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Trachta10 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:04 am

jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:01 am
lansing wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 am
jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:39 am
If you scroll down toei's twitter you can find a lot of these shots. It gives you a pretty good idea of what the show might have looked if it was shot on 35mm
Man their scanner must be really bad, the color reproduction is atrocious.
Considering they have to convert the negative colours into positive, i think thats just toei being incompetent at colors as usual
why do you think these look different?
Image
Image

One is from Toei's website the other is from twitter
I think they just changed the colors on purpose, to make them look "old", the same as they did on the movies

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by jaisonas » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:53 am

Trachta10 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:04 am
jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:01 am
lansing wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 am


Man their scanner must be really bad, the color reproduction is atrocious.
Considering they have to convert the negative colours into positive, i think thats just toei being incompetent at colors as usual
why do you think these look different?
Image
Image

One is from Toei's website the other is from twitter
I think they just changed the colors on purpose, to make them look "old", the same as they did on the movies
The bottom picture is the original shot, and the top is the edited one to brighten up the colors. Keep in mind that the picture on toei's website is quite low resolution compared to the original twitter shot and the guy here has upscaled it
Pic on the website:
Image
Also known as "[EncoderAnon] and his shitty HxH encode"

Trachta10
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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Trachta10 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:17 am

jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:53 am
Trachta10 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:04 am
jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:01 am

Considering they have to convert the negative colours into positive, i think thats just toei being incompetent at colors as usual
why do you think these look different?
Image
Image

One is from Toei's website the other is from twitter
I think they just changed the colors on purpose, to make them look "old", the same as they did on the movies
The bottom picture is the original shot, and the top is the edited one to brighten up the colors. Keep in mind that the picture on toei's website is quite low resolution compared to the original twitter shot and the guy here has upscaled it
Pic on the website:
Image
I noticed a hair? in the picture on toei's website, maybe they are different scans.
Image

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Re: Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

Post by Trachta10 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:18 am

lansing wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:31 am
Trachta10 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:26 am
this one has original colors
Is it your scan? How do you know it's accurate? I have seen so many poor scans online (like 99% of the time) throughout my research of getting accurate scan. People either scanned them with some cheap ass scanners that produced wrong color, or they didn't know how to calibrate their scanners.
it's not my scan, and actually I don't know if is accurate.
For me the best colors for cel scans come from Toei's website.
The colors match very well

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