Unpopular DB opinions

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by dbgtFO » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:44 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I didn't word that as well as I should have. In Toriyama's designs, SSB was skinny, like SSG. If you're familiar with me, you know I'm a sucker for Toriyama's skinny designs.
Oh, that. Yeah, annoys me too, it has pretty much been ignored outside certain scenes in the movie itself. Though sometimes it does look like they have slim frames in the show, but the other times, they look as buff as normal.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Anime Kitten » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:07 pm

Totally unrelated to the previous discussion:
I dislike slim Super Saiyan Blue. That should be kept to Super Saiyan God alone. I also dislike slim Goku in general; I mean, this cover gives him weird bony arms that he shouldn't have:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:14 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:Totally unrelated to the previous discussion:
I dislike slim Super Saiyan Blue. That should be kept to Super Saiyan God alone. I also dislike slim Goku in general; I mean, this cover gives him weird bony arms that he shouldn't have:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
It's subjective for sure, but I love the irony of it. Toriyama's skinny designs always draw me in.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ryou766 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:17 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Anime Kitten wrote:Totally unrelated to the previous discussion:
I dislike slim Super Saiyan Blue. That should be kept to Super Saiyan God alone. I also dislike slim Goku in general; I mean, this cover gives him weird bony arms that he shouldn't have:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
It's subjective for sure, but I love the irony of it. Toriyama's skinny designs always draw me in.
Same here. Goku's overly built physique in the early films (when he's shirtless lol) and in the XV games always bothers me.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by The Patrolman » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:45 pm

I kinda prefer the dubs explanation on becoming a super saiyan. Pain of Loss > Just getting angry
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:47 pm

The Patrolman wrote:I kinda prefer the dubs explanation on becoming a super saiyan. Pain of Loss > Just getting angry
But it didn't make sense given the situation, also, it's cliche af. Although Super Saiyan was an asspull from the beginning, so it's not the worst dub change.

Edit: Thinking about it now, "Pain of loss" wasn't the dub's entire point. It was also overcoming anger, which is the antithesis of what the transformation was about.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:00 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
The Patrolman wrote:I kinda prefer the dubs explanation on becoming a super saiyan. Pain of Loss > Just getting angry
But it didn't make sense given the situation, also, it's cliche af. Although Super Saiyan was an asspull from the beginning, so it's not the worst dub change.

Edit: Thinking about it now, "Pain of loss" wasn't the dub's entire point. It was also overcoming anger, which is the antithesis of what the transformation was about.
Exactly, in the recent Geekdom video, Chris Sabat himself admitted that the dubs "let go of your anger!" thing is total nonsense. I mean, the motivation for turning SS goes down the crapper when Vegeta gets it for being pure evil (as opposed to the nice person he was before) but the dub is pretty stupid regardless.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by The Patrolman » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:01 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
The Patrolman wrote:I kinda prefer the dubs explanation on becoming a super saiyan. Pain of Loss > Just getting angry
But it didn't make sense given the situation, also, it's cliche af. Although Super Saiyan was an asspull from the beginning, so it's not the worst dub change.

Edit: Thinking about it now, "Pain of loss" wasn't the dub's entire point. It was also overcoming anger, which is the antithesis of what the transformation was about.
It did for the most part

Goku loss of Krillin
Vegeta loss of hope on surpassing Goku
Gohans fear of losing everyone he cares about
Mirai Trunks loss of Gohan
The only thing that didn't make sense is Goten and Trunks
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:03 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:the motivation for turning SS goes down the crapper when Vegeta gets it for being pure evil (as opposed to the nice person he was before) but the dub is pretty stupid regardless.
Does it really? "A pure heart awakened by rage", that was always the requirement. I thought it was a pretty clever loophole. This, of course, was before Vegeta showed any signs of kindness.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:06 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:the motivation for turning SS goes down the crapper when Vegeta gets it for being pure evil (as opposed to the nice person he was before) but the dub is pretty stupid regardless.
Does it really? "A pure heart awakened by rage", that was always the requirement. I thought it was a pretty clever loophole. This, of course, was before Vegeta showed any signs of kindness.
I think it does. The manga even stops to say "Yeah, Vegeta being a total shit head is why he can't turn into a Super Saiyan". Pure of heart clearly means a good person which Vegeta isn't, at all. Nor is he really calm, he's a perpetually pissed off little midget.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:07 pm

The Patrolman wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
The Patrolman wrote:I kinda prefer the dubs explanation on becoming a super saiyan. Pain of Loss > Just getting angry
But it didn't make sense given the situation, also, it's cliche af. Although Super Saiyan was an asspull from the beginning, so it's not the worst dub change.

Edit: Thinking about it now, "Pain of loss" wasn't the dub's entire point. It was also overcoming anger, which is the antithesis of what the transformation was about.
It did for the most part

Goku loss of Krillin
Vegeta loss of hope on surpassing Goku
Gohans fear of losing everyone he cares about
Mirai Trunks loss of Gohan
The only thing that didn't make sense is Goten and Trunks
You can fudge words all you like, but it's much more forward and accurate to say that they all got pissed off.
ekrolo2 wrote:I think it does. The manga even stops to say "Yeah, Vegeta being a total shit head is why he can't turn into a Super Saiyan". Pure of heart clearly means a good person which Vegeta isn't, at all. Nor is he really calm, he's a perpetually pissed off little midget.
I haven't seen or read that part of DB in ages, so I'll take your word for it.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:11 pm

I'm personally in the negative stance when talking about the "pain of loss" thing that Funi created, but I'll give them credit for this; it really emotionally connected to a lot of their viewers.

I couldn't tell you how many people I've met who like that line where Goku's explaining the pain of loss thing to Gohan. I almost always come across it in AMVs about Gohan.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:15 pm

Bansho64 wrote:I'm personally in the negative stance when talking about the "pain of loss" thing that Funi created, but I'll give them credit for this; it really emotionally connected to a lot of their viewers.

I couldn't tell you how many people I've met who like that line where Goku's explaining the pain of loss thing to Gohan. I almost always come across it in AMVs about Gohan.
It's a cool explanation by itself, I won't deny that. In fact, the dub has a ton of great monolouges like that. But since they aren't actually a part of the narrative, they don't weave in properly, making them essentially meaningless.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:22 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote: It's a cool explanation by itself, I won't deny that. In fact, the dub has a ton of great monolouges like that. But since they aren't actually a part of the narrative, they don't weave in properly, making them essentially meaningless.
Yeah, that's true. I just find it surprising and kinda cool how much meaning they carry to the people who really do love them. Some people really connect with that.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:29 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: It's a cool explanation by itself, I won't deny that. In fact, the dub has a ton of great monolouges like that. But since they aren't actually a part of the narrative, they don't weave in properly, making them essentially meaningless.
Yeah, that's true. I just find it surprising and kinda cool how much meaning they carry to the people who really do love them. Some people really connect with that.
It is interesting. In fact, I can relate as someone who loved the Saiyan Arc filler. Fans of that short era in DBZ are similar to fans of the dub, there are all kinds of cool development and interactions. However, since it isn't actually a part of the narrative, it never comes to fruition. The warriors who trained at God's Palace still couldn't compete with the Saiyans, Goku didn't get all that much stronger from the fruit from Hell, Gohan wasn't brave when it counted. Despite how much we love that filler, it never could have plugged in to the actual narrative. In that way, I definitely empathize with fans of the dub.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:05 pm

The Black arc lost all hope of being good with Episode 61 and the ones that follow it reinforce this.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:08 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:The Black arc lost all hope of being good with Episode 61 and the ones that follow it reinforce this.
Why do you think that it lost all hope of being good?
Last edited by Bansho64 on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:10 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:The Black arc lost all hope of being good with Episode 61 and the ones that follow it reinforce this.
I'm not that big a fan of the arc either. I personally think it's good or ok but not anything special. Why do you think that it lost all hope of being good?
Literally every episode has something completely nonsensical and/or contradictory happen to not just stuff from before, but from previous arcs and Goku Black's origin simply does not work. The fact every version of Gowasu didn't immediately vanish from history when (Black) Zamasu killed him alone breaks the entire story, once the time travel stuff comes in its all over.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:12 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:The Black arc lost all hope of being good with Episode 61 and the ones that follow it reinforce this.
I think it's still okay, but it relies on inconsistent principles. Also, Zamasu's character mutated in a way that doesn't make much sense during the second trip to the future. Someone who had previously been characterized as a well-meaning, yet misguided apprentice on a rampage as of episode 61 was suddenly turned into a sadistic, narcissistic douche.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:18 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:The Black arc lost all hope of being good with Episode 61 and the ones that follow it reinforce this.
I think it's still okay, but it relies on inconsistent principles. Also, Zamasu's character mutated in a way that doesn't make much sense during the second trip to the future. Someone who had previously been characterized as a well-meaning, yet misguided apprentice on a rampage as of episode 61 was suddenly turned into a sadistic, narcissistic douche.
A lot of episode 61 doesn't work like that. Black killed Gowasu when he was still in the body of a God, so why didn't that cause a ripple effect that destroyed all Gowasu across the timelines? That's what Beerus said anyway. If you try to argue that its exclusive to Beerus, you still run into the problem of "Wait... If Beerus' ripple is meant to kill all Zamasu.... Why isn't Future Zamasu dead? He has no Time Ring?"

They also try to establish Trunks as a deciding factor in causing all of this and the early episodes do not support this at all. Black is surprised by the fact Trunks even has a Time Machine and can travel through time nor does he ever even imply to Trunks that he's the cause of all this misery. For a sadistic version of Zamasu, that seems fairly unlikely, especially since in his first appearance, Black loved verbally shitting on Trunks.

In episode 64, they make Black surprised by how anger makes Saiyan's stronger which is.... Insane, completely, utterly insane nonsense. He verbally acknowledged that Goku's anger made him stronger after the beating he took, he saw Trunks transform thanks to anger and he himself is perpetually pissed off about mortals, it's a core part of his motivation yet he's surprised that anger makes Saiyan's.... stronger....?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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