Unpopular DB opinions

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GamerSkull
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GamerSkull » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:16 pm

I too think Toppo was wasted and his “arc” was really just a sudden shift.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Freeza9000 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:19 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:I think Toppo had one of the best characters arcs in all of Dragon Ball.
Do you mind explaining why?

Edit: I thought it was just a bit hamfisted in because one there was no internal struggle established beforehand about him deciding whether to maintain his position as an idol of justice or become a God of Destruction. The only time where I recall something of the sort was him declaring "no justice, only survival" after majority of his teammates got swept off at 104. Even then, that was all rendered meaningless fluff anyway when he still yells "JUSTICE" episodes afterwards. Two, if he was that obsessed in keeping his occupation in the first place, why did he bother training to become a G.O.D anyway?

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:41 pm

Freeza9000 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I think Toppo had one of the best characters arcs in all of Dragon Ball.
Do you mind explaining why?
I just really have soft spot for the "Fallen Hero" character arc.You know, characters who recognise how much pressure and weight they have on their shoulders and ultimately abandon their altruistic ideals and heroism in a moment of desperation.

I dig that Toppo realised he needed to stop playing the hero (even though deep down he still wanted to cling on to that notion of "justice") before finally realising that justice was getting him nowhere, completely abandoning everything he stood for, and realizing how strong he's become as result of it, concludes it's best that if you become much strong by throwing away what it dear to you, that option is always the best. All the while still focusing on what was the most important... which ensuing his universe survive. So while Toppo sacrificed his most deep rooted morals, his main conviction still remained unwavering. He wanted his universe to survive and would go to any means to do it. Even it mean trading his soul for power.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:54 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Freeza9000 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I think Toppo had one of the best characters arcs in all of Dragon Ball.
Do you mind explaining why?
I just really have soft spot for the "Fallen Hero" character arc.You know, characters who recognise how much pressure and weight they have on their shoulders and ultimately abandon their altruistic ideals and heroism in a moment of desperation.

I dig that Toppo realised he needed to stop playing the hero (even though deep down he still wanted to cling on to that notion of "justice") before finally realising that justice was getting him nowhere, completely abandoning everything he stood for, and realizing how strong he's become as result of it, concludes it's best that if you become much strong by throwing away what it dear to you, that option is always the best. All the while still focusing on what was the most important... which ensuing his universe survive. So while Toppo sacrificed his most deep rooted morals, his main conviction still remained unwavering. He wanted his universe to survive and would go to any means to do it. Even it mean trading his soul for power.
Meh, I just didn't really understood much of the context of why Toppo had to sacrifice his most treasured morals to attain more power and essentially become a Hakaishin. Just as the show didn't make much of a distinction between "justice" and "Hakai", at least in Toppo's perspective. If Toppo feared that become a Hakaishin would end up besmirching his reputation as an idol of justice, why did he bother training to become one anyway? Why did he have to sacrifice one for another when a Hakaishin Belmod also abides by the notion of justice? Those grey areas could've been explored had not for the arc's craving for needless padding.

On to my most unpopular opinion to wrap up the night (well, depending on what timezone y'all are in), like most of Universe 7 characters, Gohan in the Tournament of Power is the most interesting his character has ever been besides the Great Saiyaman stuff and his daily life. We finally get to see a Gohan where his character isn't entirely centered about "RAGE BOOST!!!!! YOU SICK BASTERD, I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOUUU!11 LEAVE MY NAKAMAS ALONE!!" or when he's bestowed a large boost of power to fill his well, he ends up fucking around. It's poignant at first, but eventually becomes tiresome.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:52 am

Jason Liebrecht's Jeice is annoying. I have no idea what accent he's trying to do. I really wish Sabat had kept the role.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by The Patrolman » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:41 am

GamerSkull wrote:I too think Toppo was wasted and his “arc” was really just a sudden shift.
It looks like his character didn't get any JUSTICE

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:57 am

GamerSkull wrote:I too think Toppo was wasted and his “arc” was really just a sudden shift.
I think the difference between those two (an arc and a sudden shift) boils down to the amount of focus the character is given.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Michsi » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:05 am

The Toppo thing just seems like one of those 'good ideas, bad execution' type of deal. Being forced to throw away naive ideals for the sake of survival is interesting on paper, but you also need to sell it on screen.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:33 pm

Freeza9000 wrote:Meh, I just didn't really understood much of the context of why Toppo had to sacrifice his most treasured morals to attain more power and essentially become a Hakaishin. Just as the show didn't make much of a distinction between "justice" and "Hakai", at least in Toppo's perspective. If Toppo feared that become a Hakaishin would end up besmirching his reputation as an idol of justice, why did he bother training to become one anyway? Why did he have to sacrifice one for another when a Hakaishin Belmod also abides by the notion of justice? Those grey areas could've been explored had not for the arc's craving for needless padding.
Toppo embracing the power of a Hakaishin became more of an "end justify the means" route for his characterisation. The fate of billions, if not trillions of lives, rested on his and Jiren's shoulders at the point he became "Hakaishin" Toppo. Toppo was looked up to a lot in his universe as a hero and saviour and the last thing he wanted to happen for his entire universe to be erased knowing his didn't try his hardest to prevent it from happening. And he was already well aware of the strength of other mortals in other universes he would have to fight against through his skirmish with Goku at the Zen Exhibition Match, which already place a lot of pressure on him to perform when it mattered. So he already knew if he needed to make some moral sacrifices to protect billions upon billions of lives, he'd do it. He ultimately places the safety of his universe above what he stands for. That's why he trained to become a Hakaishin. If "justice" wasn't enough to protect his universe, he has something even greater in strength, if albeit less altruistic and morally heroic, to fall back on in extreme situations. And the Tournament Of Power was that extreme situation.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Zephyr » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:37 pm

I mean, he goes from "fighting to prevent the erasure of his universe" to "fighting to prevent the erasure of his universe". The only thing that really changes is that he goes from rambling non-stop about how good justice is, to rambling non-stop about how useless justice is. And before that switch, I don't remember him musing over it at all. There didn't seem to be any internal struggle. He seemed perfectly composed for the whole tournament, up until Freeza and #17 double-teamed him.

The fact that he was a candidate for the God of Destruction position, who also preached about justice, never made me think there was a conflict of interest inside of him: it seemed more like selectively destroying bad worlds was a just cause, in his view, and such the position itself would be just. I thought the idea was to contrast how the position was handled between Universes like 6 and 7, where those holding it are capricious and selfish, and a Universe like 11, with its higher rating, where they might put more thought into what they destroy, and thus take considerations like ethics and justice into consideration.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jeffbr92 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:44 pm

Talking about "sudden shift", not really unpopular but I disliked how Gohan changed when he fought Cell to his earlier characterization.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GamerSkull » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:22 pm

I like the Yamcha/Recoome and Yamcha/Olibu filler. :P
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:18 pm

Despiste being short and a prequel to DB, I don't believe Jaco's manga would be accepted in Weekly Shonen Jump if didn't come from Akira Toriyama himself.
The humour is not that funny, the characters aren't interesting, the premise is simple and Toriyama's current art is a joke compared to his old self.

Nothing stands out in a good way and when I compare it to other series serializing in WSJ, Ginga Patrol Jaco feels like the typical series that would be cancelled right away.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by The Patrolman » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:25 pm

After reading the spoilers for final two episodes of Dragon Ball Super. I can safely say that the Universe Survival Arc is the worst arc in the entire series. Bar none
Last edited by The Patrolman on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:28 pm

The Patrolman wrote:After reading the spoilers for final two episodes of Dragon Ball Super. I can safely say that the Universe Survival Arc in the entire series. Bar none
I don't understand what you mean.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by The Patrolman » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:38 pm

ABED wrote:
The Patrolman wrote:After reading the spoilers for final two episodes of Dragon Ball Super. I can safely say that the Universe Survival Arc in the entire series. Bar none
I don't understand what you mean.
Sorry typo. Look at it now
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Weejus » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:41 pm

Ribrianne was really cool and she deserved better.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DragonBallKing » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:44 pm

Weejus wrote:Ribrianne was really cool and she deserved better.
I don't have anything against her and just think its funny how much raw hatred she gets. Similar to Jar Jar Binks in the Star Wars fandom.
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Original Dragon Ball arcs ranking: 23rd Budokai, Saiyan, 21st Budokai, Red Ribbon, Freeza, Piccolo Daimao, 22nd Budokai, DB Hunt, Cell, Buu

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DragonBallKing » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:47 pm

From the Japanese side of things I prefer the SSJ transformation in movie 5 to the original only because the scream was better edited.
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Original Dragon Ball arcs ranking: 23rd Budokai, Saiyan, 21st Budokai, Red Ribbon, Freeza, Piccolo Daimao, 22nd Budokai, DB Hunt, Cell, Buu

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GamerSkull » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:04 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:Despiste being short and a prequel to DB, I don't believe Jaco's manga would be accepted in Weekly Shonen Jump if didn't come from Akira Toriyama himself.
The humour is not that funny, the characters aren't interesting, the premise is simple and Toriyama's current art is a joke compared to his old self.

Nothing stands out in a good way and when I compare it to other series serializing in WSJ, Ginga Patrol Jaco feels like the typical series that would be cancelled right away.
A lot of people like the Jaco manga, but I always thought it was just meh at best.
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