Unpopular DB opinions

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:10 am

Cetra wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
Cetra wrote:
No, the point was to introduce a culmination of ideas (= Broly) that was evaluated as profitable (= making money off of popularity). The reboot went too far by writing too heavily over that what resulted in that popularity thus the point was missed.

I repeat, Reboot is not supposed to be erasure.
I never said it was erasure.
I mentioned erasure because of elementary parts of well liked traits of Broly being erased and that is absolutely problematic for re-introducing Broly or for what its worth any character or idea that is because of its popular aspects used again.
Um, have you actually seen anyone actually talk up Broly who actually like his original portrayal? They talk about his power, his potential, & whatever else that are the more "cool" aspects of his characterization. However, where Broly turns into a bad character is his more weaker aspects, like the fact that as a few-day-old baby, he can do all these superhuman things, even though he's a BABY, or the fact that he's mentally unhinged because Goku cried next to him, which caused HIM to cry, cause, y'know, that's not normal for babies to start crying if another one near them does or anything, & the Saiyans watching over then in that nursery made fun of them because it seems they don't understand how babies work. THEN he devolves into a single word, Goku's birth name, & just becomes a mindless brute hellbent on killing him, then his kids in his next 2 movies. Yeah, who'd NOT want to keep THOSE elements which devalue him as a character?

Like, you're seriously telling us that giving Broly more of a personality & a better backstory to go with his potential isn't a welcome thing to do, especially since that character's more infamous than not nowadays? Ok, dude.
nickzambuto wrote:
ABED wrote:Why do you think Broly is popular? As far as I can tell, it's because he has a cool design and is a wrecking machine. I haven't seen the movie, but the design is still pretty good and given that he's taking on Saiyans with god ki, it's safe to say he's really strong. So what's been gotten rid of that you believe made Broly popular?
His merciless evil might be part of the reason people like him. He had some deadly lines in the first movie.

"You Kakarot. I choose you to be the first of my victims."

And I've noticed that every Broly fan loves the moment when he confronted the small aliens and blew up their planet in front of them.
Broly's not really evil. He's a whiny Saiyan brat who can't get over the fact that he cried when Goku did & was made fun of by older Saiyans (which he shouldn't remember since he's only a few days old & babies' brains are still forming at that time, mind you). He literally throws a temper tantrum because he's irrationally mad at Goku for something neither of them could control. If anything, he SHOULD be mad at the Saiyans who made fun of him, but they're dead, so Goku's the only other person. Hell, I'd even accept him being mad at Vegeta since his father stabbed him in the chest (to which he somehow survived & healed impossibly quickly, so apparently he's also Wolverine, which I'm done trying to make people understand my frustration with THAT illogic), but nope! Gotta have the main villain of a Z movie be mad at Goku to drive the conflict. It was cliched by the time the first movie originally came out & it's even moreso nowadays.

To quote Vegeta from Broly Abridged, "[He's] motivated by a crying infant! He is literally a giant f*cking baby!"

Yeah, some antagonist evil villain. I'd rather have Nero from Star Trek '09. "Spock! Spock!!!!!!!"
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:07 am

The scene in question is memorable, but mercilessly evil villains aren't a rare sight in DB. It might be a small part of his popularity but it's primarily design and being a wrecking machine.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kataphrut » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:54 am

The problem with original Broly is they tried to have their cake and eat it by giving him a backstory that was meant to make you sympathise with him (in theory anyway) while also making him a knowingly evil monster. Having that back-story is too much at odds with the tone of the film and Broly's present-day demeanour. Freeza's still the most evil bastard in the series and he's never needed a flashback showing how he got that way.

The best solution was to go either one way or the other, which is what the new film did by purely focusing on Broly's sympathetic traits and ditching the cackling sadism.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:15 am

Kataphrut wrote:The problem with original Broly is they tried to have their cake and eat it by giving him a backstory that was meant to make you sympathise with him (in theory anyway) while also making him a knowingly evil monster. Having that back-story is too much at odds with the tone of the film and Broly's present-day demeanour. Freeza's still the most evil bastard in the series and he's never needed a flashback showing how he got that way.

The best solution was to go either one way or the other, which is what the new film did by purely focusing on Broly's sympathetic traits and ditching the cackling sadism.
Exactly, backstory is overrated as a way of explaining why someone is good/evil. I think it's best when it explains something specific.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cetra » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:40 pm

It might be a small part of his popularity but it's primarily design and being a wrecking machine.
Kinda bold to claim that I (a massive Broly fan) and the other massive Broly fans that are disappointed about the removal, etc. know less what we love about Broly than you do. This shows that absolutely every argument is impossible if you even go that far to imply you know better what we love about him than we do. It does not end with "design and wrecking machine". And a single scene is not everything about his sinister side.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:01 pm

Cetra wrote:
It might be a small part of his popularity but it's primarily design and being a wrecking machine.
Kinda bold to claim that I (a massive Broly fan) and the other massive Broly fans that are disappointed about the removal, etc. know less what we love about Broly than you do. This shows that absolutely every argument is impossible if you even go that far to imply you know better what we love about him than we do. It does not end with "design and wrecking machine". And a single scene is not everything about his sinister side.

This is internet at its finest.
I wrote PRIMARILY. There are other things people like about him, but those are the two I've noticed the most and it stands to reason given those are attractive qualities. Do you think Batman would've been nearly as popular if everything about him was the same but they went with Bob Kane's design of the red leotard and domino mask? Those two qualities are HUGE reasons why the Road Warriors (the wrestlers) were so popular. People love a badass. And it's not like there's some secret or some club of Broly fans. People talk about the reasons why they like him and it rarely has much to do with his depth of character. I didn't imply I knew better than Broly fans. It was just an observation. Nowhere did I say it ends with his design and being a wrecking machine. You seem to be taking everything I've written very personally. If you think I'm wrong, then you're welcome to give a well reasoned rebuttal. I'm not even the only person here making these points.

What removal are you talking about?
And a single scene is not everything about his sinister side.
Never said it was, but merely pointing out that his mercilessness is a quality every big bad in DB has. It wasn't something specific to Broly.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by nickzambuto » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:51 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:
ABED wrote:Why do you think Broly is popular? As far as I can tell, it's because he has a cool design and is a wrecking machine. I haven't seen the movie, but the design is still pretty good and given that he's taking on Saiyans with god ki, it's safe to say he's really strong. So what's been gotten rid of that you believe made Broly popular?
And I've noticed that every Broly fan loves the moment when he confronted the small aliens and blew up their planet in front of them.
Thats the most evil thing he's ever done on screen.

"I noticed you all staring at your little planet dreaming that you could go back there one day.. Well it was JUST A DREAM *Blows up planet*.

Thats just straight up mean lol. But awesome.

I'm not taking anything away from new Broly as I've havent seen the movie yet.
You're right dude. No other Dragon Ball villain is as blunt and jock-ish as Broly.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by goku the krump dancer » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:08 am

Cant tell if that's sarcasm or not.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by nickzambuto » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:43 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote:Cant tell if that's sarcasm or not.
No, why would it be sarcastic lol. That's definitely what Broly is.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:02 pm

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:13 pm

Kataphrut wrote:The problem with original Broly is they tried to have their cake and eat it by giving him a backstory that was meant to make you sympathise with him (in theory anyway) while also making him a knowingly evil monster. Having that back-story is too much at odds with the tone of the film and Broly's present-day demeanour. Freeza's still the most evil bastard in the series and he's never needed a flashback showing how he got that way.

The best solution was to go either one way or the other, which is what the new film did by purely focusing on Broly's sympathetic traits and ditching the cackling sadism.
I never really got the impression that we were suppose to sympathize with Broly based on his backstory. I got the impression that Paragus was supposed to be the more sympathetic character.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kokonoe » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:58 pm

1.
Toriyama as great is he is requires someone to keep him in line for him to write a competent long term story. I feel he, when left on his own, just kinda wanders off with the plot and the details and his forgetful nature comes at the expense of the continuity. When he has people keeping him in check, things are near perfect as far as I'm concerned.

2.
Toei doesn't really understand Dragon Ball all that well for a company that has so much history with it. In particular, their lack of understanding is most shown in characterization. I also feel as if they are far far worse than Toriyama at continuity and keeping a story cohesive and sensible within the world. They also have mostly bad fights I feel whereas the good parts feel low by number and the progression and pace is repetitive while also lacking quality.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Noah » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:02 pm

That's probably not unpopular, but I didn't like the new take on Broly.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by NewKakarot » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:14 pm

I really hate Bulma and Vegeta as a couple. They're not really fit for each other and it feels like the pairing is only a thing because Toriyama needed some background information for Future Trunks.

In his own timeline, it's very clear that Bulma and Vegeta weren't close. Trunks mentions that he was conceived when Bulma was trying to get back at Yamcha for supposedly cheating on him. Future Bulma is even surprised that Vegeta raged out at Cell after he killed Trunks (though she doesn't say that out loud because she wants Trunks to think that he was a good guy).

And in the main timeline, Vegeta straight up doesn't care about rescuing Bulma and Baby Trunks when Dr. Gero (20) blows up her ship. If it weren't for Future Trunks, they would've died (along with Yajirobe, but that's besides the point). I don't see why Bulma would ever want to stay with a guy like him. She's smarter than that.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:24 pm

NewKakarot wrote:I really hate Bulma and Vegeta as a couple. They're not really fit for each other and it feels like the pairing is only a thing because Toriyama needed some background information for Future Trunks.

In his own timeline, it's very clear that Bulma and Vegeta weren't close. Trunks mentions that he was conceived when Bulma was trying to get back at Yamcha for supposedly cheating on him. Future Bulma is even surprised that Vegeta raged out at Cell after he killed Trunks (though she doesn't say that out loud because she wants Trunks to think that he was a good guy).

And in the main timeline, Vegeta straight up doesn't care about rescuing Bulma and Baby Trunks when Dr. Gero (20) blows up her ship. If it weren't for Future Trunks, they would've died (along with Yajirobe, but that's besides the point). I don't see why Bulma would ever want to stay with a guy like him. She's smarter than that.
I pretty much agree. I don’t see why it’s so popular. Seeing it so prominent in DBS and then taken out of context and romanticized to the point of flanderization even further in fan works doesn’t help things either.

ulmas thirsty. She likes bad boys. And she had to make up a lie to justify on getting with the guy who indirectly killed half of their friends.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by NewKakarot » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:25 am

It's a really forced relationship

While on the subject of bad couples, I also don't like Gohan and Videl. Not because I can't see it as a thing, it's because I feel like Videl just became a really boring housewife. Like, Chi-Chi is also a housewife, but to an extent she's there for some comedy. Videl doesn't really do anything these days.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Tian » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:07 pm

Dunno if this unpopular or not... but I really hate the CGI used in the recent movies. For special effects, it's ok but for characters, it sucks.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Goten_jr » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:25 pm

SSJ,SSJG,&SSJ4 should be the only SS Forms that exist
SSJ=Uultimate Saiyan Form
SSG=Ultimate God Form
SSJ4=Ultimate Ozaru form

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gligarman » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:11 pm

Tian wrote:Dunno if this unpopular or not... but I really hate the CGI used in the recent movies. For special effects, it's ok but for characters, it sucks.
I'm with you there. Animation deadlines are a bitch but sadly sometimes this is the result when they're in danger of being missed.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by saiyanhajime » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:43 pm

Absolutely agree. I can't believe how many people say the CGI on the characters looks good. It looks abysmal. Luckily, the rest looks so good I can forgive it. 2D animation can be so stylised and free that it makes the 3D stuff look even more stale and jaggered? It's just so unnatural looking.

As for my unpopular opinion...? I've never really understood the obsession with Gohan. I've always thought he was kinda lame. There are certainly some aspects of his character I really dig - like I love the idea of his heart not being in it when it comes to fighting despite being such a prodigy, but... I dunno. I don't much care for him as a character. I've never really liked his visual designs either.

I also really dig the American music. I love a lot of the Japanese, too. But I get tired of people shitting on the American score. Some of it is so listenable out of context and other bits do an outstanding job of selling the atmosphere of a scene. My personal favourite in-situ track is that Time Chamber/Gohan's Innocense/Goku burying Vegeta tune.
NewKakarot wrote:I really hate Bulma and Vegeta as a couple. They're not really fit for each other and it feels like the pairing is only a thing because Toriyama needed some background information for Future Trunks.

In his own timeline, it's very clear that Bulma and Vegeta weren't close. Trunks mentions that he was conceived when Bulma was trying to get back at Yamcha for supposedly cheating on him. Future Bulma is even surprised that Vegeta raged out at Cell after he killed Trunks (though she doesn't say that out loud because she wants Trunks to think that he was a good guy).

And in the main timeline, Vegeta straight up doesn't care about rescuing Bulma and Baby Trunks when Dr. Gero (20) blows up her ship. If it weren't for Future Trunks, they would've died (along with Yajirobe, but that's besides the point). I don't see why Bulma would ever want to stay with a guy like him. She's smarter than that.
Could not disagree with you more but also love that you have a completely different view on the matter.

With regard to your finishing statement - Bulma is reckless, regardless of genius. She repeatedly puts herself in danger. I dunno why anyone would think that would differ in the bedroom, lol. But in seriousness - I don't think they were "together" and more having a "thing" off and on until Vegeta started being less, er, awful on a regular basis. Her reaction to Majin Vegeta shows that, at least by that point, there's actual feelings forming. But prior to this, we get no hint that she does, do we? I can't think of any examples.

Part of what makes their relationship interesting and popular is that their "canon" interactions are utterly baffling for a long time. How the hell did they get together??? A question a million fanfics try to answer.

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