Unpopular DB opinions

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ABED
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:39 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:What do you think of Dameon Clarke's Cell, Kara Edwards' Videl and Rick Robertson's Dabura? Those three performances always seem to be considered to be standouts of the old Z dub.
I like Clarke's performance quite a bit (second form notwithstanding), I don't remember Edwards' Videl so I can't comment. I never had a problem with it. And I don't remember Robertson's Dabura, but I do remember really liking his voice in other performances (Olivue in DBZ and Yomi from YYH).

Clarke's Cell, especially his first form, is really good, but pales in comparison to Wakamoto.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:43 am

ABED wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:What do you think of Dameon Clarke's Cell, Kara Edwards' Videl and Rick Robertson's Dabura? Those three performances always seem to be considered to be standouts of the old Z dub.
I like Clarke's performance quite a bit (second form notwithstanding), I don't remember Edwards' Videl so I can't comment. I never had a problem with it. And I don't remember Robertson's Dabura, but I do remember really liking his voice in other performances (Olivue in DBZ and Yomi from YYH).

Clarke's Cell, especially his first form, is really good, but pales in comparison to Wakamoto.
I was actually replying to Kunzait, not you.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:08 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:What do you think of Dameon Clarke's Cell, Kara Edwards' Videl and Rick Robertson's Dabura? Those three performances always seem to be considered to be standouts of the old Z dub.
Robertson's Dabura is one of the better voices in the dub. I wouldn't call it absolutely mind blowing or anything, but its a good, solid, competent "demonic voice", which is what the character calls for. Its one of the VERY painfully few listenable voices in the dub (along with #17 and #18's and the Budokai Announcer).

I'd need to refresh myself on Edwards' Videl, but I don't remember having any real issues with it back in the day.

Clarke's Cell however is MASSIVELY overrated. Fairly cartoony (as is the standard from FUNimation's DB cast) and over-the-top hammy in a cringe way. Another case like with Sabat and Schemmel where the dub loyalists inflate his performance WAY beyond what it actually is.

The funny thing with Clarke's Cell: I'm mainly thinking of his first and Perfect forms (Perfect especially). I can't even remember what his 2nd form voice sounds like. I might have mentally blocked it out. :P
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Shaddy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:16 pm

In fairness, Semi-Perfect Cell is just kind of like that. Not that I can remember that well either, I'm pretty sure it's just a really throaty kind of phlegmy-sounding thing, basically a half-step between the Imperfect and Perfect voices, which would make sense if it didn't also just kind of sound like shit. But then, I guess that fits Semi-Perfect also looking like shit, so.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:22 pm

His semi-perfect voice sounds like a cartoony fat guy.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:31 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:Clarke's Cell however is MASSIVELY overrated. Fairly cartoony (as is the standard from FUNimation's DB cast) and over-the-top hammy in a cringe way. Another case like with Sabat and Schemmel where the dub loyalists inflate his performance WAY beyond what it actually is.

The funny thing with Clarke's Cell: I'm mainly thinking of his first and Perfect forms (Perfect especially). I can't even remember what his 2nd form voice sounds like. I might have mentally blocked it out. :P
I personally like Clarke's Cell but I would have to agree that he's kind of overrated.

And looking back on it, his Toguro in YYH was a bit raspy for my tastes where as Tessho Genda was more natural and a lot smoother.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:33 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:And looking back on it, his Toguro in YYH was a bit raspy for my tastes where as Tessho Genda was more natural and a lot smoother.
You may notice a recurring theme there between FUNi and Japanese VAs across martial arts fantasy anime. :P
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:23 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:And looking back on it, his Toguro in YYH was a bit raspy for my tastes where as Tessho Genda was more natural and a lot smoother.
You may notice a recurring theme there between FUNi and Japanese VAs across martial arts fantasy anime. :P
My theory that Funimation’s recording studio is right next to a convenience store where cigarettes are on a 90 percent discount continues to hold water :P

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:44 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:And looking back on it, his Toguro in YYH was a bit raspy for my tastes where as Tessho Genda was more natural and a lot smoother.
You may notice a recurring theme there between FUNi and Japanese VAs across martial arts fantasy anime. :P
It's also recurring in other anime:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LlHXRZxt5Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TatVW6AYSps

Sabat sounds really exaggerated here while the Japanese VA just sounds... authentic.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:24 pm

Again with the rasp. Rasp is fine. Some people have raspy voices. Not to sound combative, but it feels far too often that people conflate rasp with poor acting.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hyena_Yamcha » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:36 pm

ABED wrote:I haven't seen the films you mentioned besides TFA and I thought that was 'good Ford'. It's about between about midway Great and Serviceable. I felt he put some genuine effort into the role in TFA because it was the final one for him. Nowhere near Star Wars or Empire, but a step below Jedi.

Back on topic, I don't know if this is unpopular, but I really like Giru. I think he's one of the best parts of GT.
Not thread related , but iv been wondering for years , are you the guy in your profile pic?
My English is poor .

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:39 pm

Hyena_Yamcha wrote:
ABED wrote:I haven't seen the films you mentioned besides TFA and I thought that was 'good Ford'. It's about between about midway Great and Serviceable. I felt he put some genuine effort into the role in TFA because it was the final one for him. Nowhere near Star Wars or Empire, but a step below Jedi.

Back on topic, I don't know if this is unpopular, but I really like Giru. I think he's one of the best parts of GT.
Not thread related , but iv been wondering for years , are you the guy in your profile pic?
No, that's Danni Pudi as Abed from Community.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:49 pm

ABED wrote:Again with the rasp. Rasp is fine. Some people have raspy voices. Not to sound combative, but it feels far too often that people conflate rasp with poor acting.
How many times are we gonna have this conversation? I don't hate rasp, but I just think it doesn't fit for certain types of characters, like Future Trunks.

Having relistened to Clarke's Toguro a few times, sometimes it feels like he's trying too hard to sound cool while Genda just naturally sounds cool.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:58 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:Sabat sounds really exaggerated here while the Japanese VA just sounds... authentic.
Said it before, will no doubt say it again: Sabat's just an indefensibly awful actor full-stop, and overall people mostly continue to defend his work based on clingy childhood sentimental attachment rather than actual critical standards.
ABED wrote:Again with the rasp. Rasp is fine. Some people have raspy voices. Not to sound combative, but it feels far too often that people conflate rasp with poor acting.
I agree with this totally, at least in basic principal.

The issue here however with regards to Dragon Ball and some of FUNimation's other dubs, is that rasping is also often over-used as a "crutch" by a lot of VAs, namely ones who do a lot of work in children's cartoons. Within a particular school of "over the top cartoon over-acting", an overdone rasp is sort of a cornerstone of lazy acting crutches to be used in place of actual emoting or naturalism. Its part of a broader (and in my view, really shitty) approach to voice acting where "doing a manufactured put-on voice" takes MUCH higher priority over just delivering a nuanced, organically real and human performance.

And Sabat in particular is more or less one of the Patron Saints of this specific acting tic.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:01 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
ABED wrote:Again with the rasp. Rasp is fine. Some people have raspy voices. Not to sound combative, but it feels far too often that people conflate rasp with poor acting.
How many times are we gonna have this conversation? I don't hate rasp, but I just think it doesn't fit for certain types of characters, like Future Trunks.

Having relistened to Clarke's Toguro a few times, sometimes it feels like he's trying too hard to sound cool while Genda just naturally sounds cool.
Sorry. I don't remember whom I have these conversations with. Sorry, again.

I agree that Cooke tries too hard to sound cool (too hard, period), but I've never gotten that impression from Clarke's Toguro. I've always liked his work as he's one of FUNi's better talents. It makes sense that he's been able to make a living outside of voice acting in live action. He's been a guest star on a bunch of stuff over the years, including Supernatural and 24.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:52 am

Not sure if this is unpopular but I don't think Jaco is an elite patrolman.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by The Patrolman » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:52 am

While Sonny does it better, I actually love Nozawa as Bardock. Maybe its me but I love her doing deep voices
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by The Patrolman » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:53 am

Hulk10 wrote:Not sure if this is unpopular but I don't think Jaco is an elite patrolman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x41U2tK3pA
The Last Jedi is a terrible movie

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:22 am

ABED wrote:Again with the rasp. Rasp is fine. Some people have raspy voices. Not to sound combative, but it feels far too often that people conflate rasp with poor acting.
Of course rasp=/=Bad acting.

It just always seemed odd to me how many characters in Funi Dragon Ball have a rasp; Kid Goku, Bulma, Oolong, Piccolo, Vegeta, Kid Gohan, Freeza, Trunks, Goten etc.

ETA: Oops I meant to agree that rasp isn’t equatable to bad acting not that it equals bad acting. Whoops.
Last edited by MasenkoHA on Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:38 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
ABED wrote:Again with the rasp. Rasp is fine. Some people have raspy voices. Not to sound combative, but it feels far too often that people conflate rasp with poor acting.
Of course rasp=Bad acting.

It just always seemed odd to me how many characters in Funi Dragon Ball have a rasp; Kid Goku, Bulma, Oolong, Piccolo, Vegeta, Kid Gohan, Freeza, Trunks, Goten etc.
I mean, I'm certainly with ABED insofar as I don't necessarily agree with the premise that a raspy voice is inherently, fundamentally a case of bad acting: its certainly possible to deliver a great acting performance while having a raspy voice, or even for a raspy voice to be a requirement of a particular, given character. Hell one of my favorite actors, Michael Wincott, has a natural voice so raspy it sounds like it was scrapped over gravel littered with razor-edged broken glass: and he routinely delivers excellent, fun as all hell performances in many a cool movie.

What the raspy voice certainly IS however in a great deal many cases (not all, but many) is the telltale lazy crutch of many a bad voice actor: particularly bad voice actors on cornball terrible kids' cartoon TV shows.

That the FUNimation cast nearly ACROSS THE BOARD over-rely so hard on the rasp as the key central focal point of their performances ought to clue you in on which of the above two scenarios they generally all fall under.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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