Unpopular DB opinions

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Block88
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Block88 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:39 pm

sintzu wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:08 am
Soppa Saia People wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:54 am
Block88 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:15 am
Both the super manga and anime are painfully mediocre.
i have tried to avoid most super stuff just because i have no interest, but isn't this like a common sentiment ? it seems like the overall consensus on super is "eh".
The problem is that it plays things way too safe and won't get out of Z's nostalgic shadow.
The latter is far more of a problem then the former honestly.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Grimlock » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:37 pm

I think they are equally a problem. Both bring terrible things to the table.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sintzu » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:39 pm

Block88 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:39 pm
The latter is far more of a problem then the former honestly.
I have to agree. Something safe wouldn't be so bad (it's still an issue) if it at least tried to be original. What makes things worse is that what Super takes from the past ends up being worse than the original. As much as I want 2uper to be original, I can't help but think that's unrealistic thanks to Broly's success.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Block88 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:08 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:37 pm
I think they are equally a problem. Both bring terrible things to the table.
Exactly both are are awful however the latter is more of an issue cause it seems like they can’t create anything original for themselves and rely on z nostalgia to get by.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:19 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:21 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:51 am
jiren is like ivan drago really but it is story a bit old with the current time but if it fulfills its function
I'm afraid I can't quite see that comparison. While they are both rather empty shells, at least Ivan Drago is actually intimidating. At least Ivan Drago, in killing Apollo, actually does something to emotionally affect the hero and the audience.
both was trained to be "invincible"
both are muscular and taciturn
ivan drago represented his entire country and jiren to his entire universe.
ivan drago in a moment of the final fight he says that if he manages to win the fight against rocky he will win for himself and not for others.
the fight against apollo is basically to show its power and strength I do not see it as different as he humiliates to vegeta or hit in addition to all the demonstrations of its power against the blueken, spirit bomb and time stop etc etc
they were both abandoned at one point in their lives

for me they are basically the same they are there to fulfill a "function" you could say that jiren started to change their way of thinking during the fight against goku

in short you can say that now drago change a little but after several years ... and really does not really affect my point really.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:42 pm

in short you can say that now drago change a little but after several years ... and really does not really affect my point really.
Except that one is executed WAY better. Even Jiren's design is bland.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:48 pm

Block88 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:15 am
Both the super manga and anime are painfully mediocre.
while I can agree that both re-use nostalgic elements in the plot, I can say that at least the staff of toei has more imagination in the battles, spectacularity and interactions in addition to greater participation of characters and his develoment that I can not say of the manga
the manga is more boring and less risky still
ABED wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:42 pm
in short you can say that now drago change a little but after several years ... and really does not really affect my point really.
Except that one is executed WAY better. Even Jiren's design is bland.
Creed II does not change rocky IV and as he was his co-star in the whole movie
and nobody hates drago so much either before or after so ...
Last edited by Tai Lung on Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:09 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:48 pm
Creed II does not change rocky IV and as it was ivan drago in all his co-star in the whole movie and nobody hates it so much neither before nor after so ...
This sentence is indecipherable. Creed 2 doesn't retroactively change Rocky 4. Our point is even as much of a blank slate as Drago was, he has what you want from that sort of character - presence!
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Block88 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:25 am

ABED wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:42 pm
in short you can say that now drago change a little but after several years ... and really does not really affect my point really.
Except that one is executed WAY better. Even Jiren's design is bland.
I don’t see wat so bad about jiren design it’s what AT prefers to do nice and simple

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Block88 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:26 am

ABED wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:09 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:48 pm
Creed II does not change rocky IV and as it was ivan drago in all his co-star in the whole movie and nobody hates it so much neither before nor after so ...
This sentence is indecipherable. Creed 2 doesn't retroactively change Rocky 4. Our point is even as much of a blank slate as Drago was, he has what you want from that sort of character - presence!
We jiren also had so what’s the issue.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 am

It's not simplicity that's the issue, it's the lack of anything interesting or memorable.
We jiren also had so what’s the issue.
I have no idea what this means.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by omegacwa » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:47 am

I'm not sure if this is unpopular or not but Toppo is way cooler than Jiren. His design is more interesting and his transformation into a G.o.D. is more intriguing than Jiren's backstory. Plus he was all about being a hero of justice.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:48 am

ABED wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 am
We jiren also had so what’s the issue.
I have no idea what this means.
I think he meant to say "Which Jiren also had," as in, Geran also has presence. However, if that is what he's saying, I have to vehemently disagree. I mean, it's not impossible to make inscrutable foes interesting.

Drago's "If he dies, he dies," says so much about him in just one line, and it demonstrates that, as implacable as he is, he will do anything for the win, anything just to win a sporting match.

The Terminator has little personality (although the few moments he has of trying to fit in or communicate add just that tiny bit off pizzazz needed), but his mere presence is terrifying. He's an unstoppable juggernaut who will mow down rooms full of people just to get to you. He can be burned, shot, have his flesh melted off, lose the lower half of his body, and he's still going to keep coming for you.

The Borg have no individual personality and are often willing to just ignore you, even if you're walking around their ship, but get their attention, and suddenly you have an entire collective consciousness coming for you. There's nowhere you can hide, your weapons are useless, and all they have to do is touch you, and you lose everything about you that makes you you, and you become an unwitting ally in all the atrocities they will commit in the future.

Those are all psychologically powerful ideas. They make you fear for the characters involved. And they make you as an audience member afraid because you can identify with that fear and what it would do to you were you in that situation. Geran just comes across as bored. He doesn't care if he's there. He doesn't care if his friends lose. Most of the time you don't have to worry about his strength because he's so bored he'll just sit down and ignore the entire tournament. And there's almost never a moment where it honestly feels like the heroes could lose. There's nothing terrifying about that. There's nothing interesting about that. There's nothing for the audience to pick up on. If a writer is going to make a stoic, inscrutable character into the villain, just having him be really, really strong is not enough to make him interesting. Bored characters are boring!
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:46 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:48 am
ABED wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 am
We jiren also had so what’s the issue.
I have no idea what this means.
I think he meant to say "Which Jiren also had," as in, Geran also has presence. However, if that is what he's saying, I have to vehemently disagree. I mean, it's not impossible to make inscrutable foes interesting.

Drago's "If he dies, he dies," says so much about him in just one line, and it demonstrates that, as implacable as he is, he will do anything for the win, anything just to win a sporting match.
what a difference there is with this?
jiren has good lines too, and yes it is basically the same the weak is weak and the strong is strong and as both are governed by those same rules
Gaffer Tape wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:48 am
Those are all psychologically powerful ideas. They make you fear for the characters involved. And they make you as an audience member afraid because you can identify with that fear and what it would do to you were you in that situation. Geran just comes across as bored. He doesn't care if he's there. He doesn't care if his friends lose. Most of the time you don't have to worry about his strength because he's so bored he'll just sit down and ignore the entire tournament. And there's almost never a moment where it honestly feels like the heroes could lose. There's nothing terrifying about that. There's nothing interesting about that. There's nothing for the audience to pick up on. If a writer is going to make a stoic, inscrutable character into the villain, just having him be really, really strong is not enough to make him interesting. Bored characters are boring!
I can give that "point" to you in part ... but it does not apply so much in jiren because he is not a "villain" ... really his goal was not to win the tournament by eliminating all the possible universes. .. that was not of his interest he was there for his universe to "survive" that is because he was in charge of defeat the strongest ones when they made their notice kale, goku, maji kayo and hit etc leaving the weakest to his team but when he saw that his team was not enough "apt" to continue, he clinked to his rules to "win" jiren also aimed to know "the true origin of power" so he felt the need to demonstrate that his ideology was correct against those who fought for their pride, family and friends etc

I do not see it different "I fight to win, for me. For me!" - Ivan Drago

Jiren at least has more dialogue and manages to learn more in his fight with Goku

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:52 pm

omegacwa wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:47 am
I'm not sure if this is unpopular or not but Toppo is way cooler than Jiren. His design is more interesting and his transformation into a G.o.D. is more intriguing than Jiren's backstory. Plus he was all about being a hero of justice.
it is not unpopular many agree that the toppo god design is better

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:23 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:46 pm
what a difference there is with this?
Drago's line is terse and iconic. The dialog you used as an example is not. It's bland. It's not terrible, just bland.
Last edited by ABED on Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PremiumSalt » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:35 pm

I love Nozawa, but I disagree with the decision to have her voice every male relative of Goku (aside from Raditz). I don't think she does a good job of distinguishing the voices at all, and that causes issues especially once you get to episodes where both Goku and Gohan are adults.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:51 pm

PremiumSalt wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:35 pm
I love Nozawa, but I disagree with the decision to have her voice every male relative of Goku (aside from Raditz). I don't think she does a good job of distinguishing the voices at all, and that causes issues especially once you get to episodes where both Goku and Gohan are adults.
It's very easy to tell the difference. Her performance as Gohan is much more reserved.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Block88 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:31 pm

omegacwa wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:47 am
I'm not sure if this is unpopular or not but Toppo is way cooler than Jiren. His design is more interesting and his transformation into a G.o.D. is more intriguing than Jiren's backstory. Plus he was all about being a hero of justice.
Nah only after he went GOD he was cooler until he jobbed to vegeta

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Block88 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:35 pm

Regardless jiren >nu broly as menacing antagonist
Fans will eating anything toei throws at them regardless whether it’s good or bad.

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